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played this list against a buddys high elves yesterday:

beastlord
razorgor chariot
i6, scaly skin, hvy armor, shield, +3 str weapon

gorebull bsb
+1 str banner, hvy armor, shield

lv2 shaman, scroll

35 gors, full command
3 tuskgor chariots
12 centigors, full command + ghorros
19 bestigors, full command +warbanner

he had (roughly)

lv4 wizard, ignore 1st miscast thing
lv2 wizard
bsb, 2+save armor

20 seaguard, full command
20 seaguard, full command

18ish swordmasters, full command, +d3 power dice banner
20ish phoenix guard, full command, war banner
2 bolt throwers
lion chariot

we rolled up the 'split the table in half diagonally' scenario. we placed terrain (a +3 initiative river, a forest that puts hits on you if you go through it, a scree hill, a charnel pit, an arcane ruin) and i won the roll off. none of my stuff was delayed, 1 seaguard unit and his lv4 wizard were.

my horde gor unit was really huge and made me place my centigors in the river and my generals chariot on the opposite side. i was mildly apprehensive about this as just a day before my generals chariot went through a necrotic river and took 6 wounds, lol.

anyhow, first turn i surge forward, lose a centigor in the river but my chariots crest the scree hill with no wounds. my shaman with the bestigors cast viletide with irresistable force doing 2 wounds to a bolt thrower before killing my shaman, 10 bestigors and putting a wound on a nearby chariot. oi. on his turn, his reserves come on behind me. his lion chariot gets a charge off against one of my chariots and destroys it. his shooting from bolt throwers and a unit of seaguard down another one of my chariots. nothing fancy from magic.

my turn 2 i charge my general into a bolt thrower, my gor unit into the swordmasters and my remaining chariot into his seaguard. my centigors turn to face the lion chariot. the general wipes the bolt thrower out, restrains pursuit and turns around to face the seaguard unit. the other chariot does 6 impact wounds and takes one in return, the stubborn elves stay. the gor unit take a ton of casualties and my bsb makes a bunch of armor/parry saves taking only 1 wound and in the ensuing frenzied onslaught kills 11 sword masters. i win the combat and even with a reroll from the nearby bsb the swordmasters run off. they escape as my horde unit pursues 1d6 cuz of the minotaur which is enough to get them into combat with the phoenix guard. his turn, the swordmasters rally, the lion chariot spins around to be able to charge in the next turn. his magic results in an irresistable regeneration spell on the swordmasters which gets the max # of guys back and only does 3 wounds to the seaguard unit the lv4 wizard was in. i challenge the phoenix guard but he declines so i send his bsb to the rear. after a fury of ward saves, the phoenix guard are stubborn and dont run.

my turn 3 my general charges across the river (no wounds, huzzah) into the seaguard unit. the centigors roll low for their charge against the lion chariot and trundle 5 inches forward losing 1 guy to the river. the shattered remnants of the bestigor unit charge into the phoenix guard. my general kills 4 seaguard and the razorgor kills the lv4 wizard, the unit is stubborn. the bestigors fail their fear check despite the bsb reroll but i still win the combat. phoenix guard still stubborn, dont run. the other chariot dies an ignominious death after failing to put any wounds on the lv2 wizard over 2 turns. his turn the swordmasters hit the gor unit, the seaguard hit the flank of the bestigors and the chariot hits the centigors. he gets 12 power dice from his standard and wizard. he tries to cast a fire spell on his bsb to turn him into a close combat monster which i dispel. he turns his wizard into a dragon (!) and i cant dispell it. bestigors=in trouble lol. in combat, my bsb takes 5 wounds and saves note of them from the swordmasters, so my bestigors lose frenzy and str 4. the dragon gobbles up the bestigors and i handily lose the combat and everyone gets run down. we decide to call it as i cant really recover from such a righteous ass-whuppin.

all in all it was a really fun game. i like the way terrain works now, even if it can be a pain to remember what type of terrain stuff is i.e. is that the venomous forest or the blood forest? i think the d6+4 recommended amount of terrain is a bit over the top, we have decided to just do d3+4.

elf impressions:
-seaguard are pretty much as awesome as i thought they would be.
-we played it where swordmasters got ASF and rerolls, and they were freakin sick. i hope GW makes them at least lose their rerolls, theyre freaking good enough.
-the standard of +d3 power dice is awesome. i would be very surprised to see a high elf army without it.
-the new magic lores are really neat, regenerating swordmasters? oi oi.

beastmen impressions:
-the general in his chariot is a machine. barring killing blow, im not scared of a whole lot. his razorgor is just bonkers too...so good.
-i am consistently disappointed with the bestigors. this game doesnt really count since they lost half their guys in a miscast, but having only 1 attack and heavy armor isnt doing them favors. im thinking of putting a gorebull in there with the ASF sword and the enchanted shield to give them frenzy and put in some wounds before the enemy.
-the big gor unit is fun to play, but really unwieldly and it folds like a wet bag when the bsb gets killed. in all honesty its probably better to just run blocks with shields for the 6+ ward, but i love the look of the horde with a minotaur in the middle of it so i imagine it will stay :-)
-i dont really love the tuskgor chariots, but they are so damn cheap that i just cant say no.

The rule book states that all models with always strikes first and always strikes last (great Weapons) negate both and so they are affected by neither rule. His sword masters would have just fought at initiative.

You guys had a tone of miscasts how many dicve were you rolling to cast spells? for a levl 4 to get most spells off he will rarely need to roll more than 2 dice as 7+ 4 is 11 which casts almost everything in the high magic. I suppose the uber power spells are all around 15 and above but wasn;t there a lot of minor spell casting going on?

BrPrometheus wrote:The rule book states that all models with always strikes first and always strikes last (great Weapons) negate both and so they are affected by neither rule. His sword masters would have just fought at initiative.

Swordmasters have a special rule that lets them keep Always Strike First with Great Weapons.

yeah, thats how we interpreted it. in the whole 'army book trumps rule book' thing. the high elf book says something along the lines of 'always strikes first regardless of weapon'.

as far as the magic goes, he was using the new lores, and they are all harder to cast. in a lot of cases you need to throw 3-4 dice to get the spell off reliably. the spells from the individual army books are a lot easier to cast, but IMO the new lores are a lot more powerful. i mean he turned his weedy lv2 wizard into a freakin dragon! and regenerated a bunch of expensive swordmasters! i am much more impressed with the new lores than any of the book lores.

Also the high elves errata states that the swordmasters keep always strike first

ernshmagl wrote:Also the high elves errata states that the swordmasters keep always strike first

we know that now, but look at the op date, it was 2 weeks before they got released

which is totally annoying...those swordmasters are bonkers

ser_hag wrote:which is totally annoying...those swordmasters are bonkers

Still T3 5+AS elves.

Shoot them and they go splat.

ShivanAngel wrote:

ser_hag wrote:which is totally annoying...those swordmasters are bonkers

Still T3 5+AS elves.

Shoot them and they go splat.

a good tactic...hell, the best tactic. if you have shooting...

I'm curious, with the gorebull bsb are you at all concerned about him no longer getting look out sir rolls? This will only affect him regarding stone throwers and cannons, but a canny opponent is going to blast that poor buy off the table first chance they get. It's something I considered (since a minotaur is awesome enough, let alone packing the army standard), but the no look out sirs makes me very wary.

yeah, its a real concern. he has a lot of wounds, so theyd have to be lucky to kill him outright, but its enough of a problem that ive since ditched the minotaur BSB in favor of a wargor with scaly skin. t5 with a 2+/6+ and look out sir is i think the better way to go.

Just out of curiosity, why so much hate on Swordmasters having ASF and re-rolls? Even if it is powerful, there are always ways to counter that, right? Personally, I hope it stays.

lv4 wizard, ignore 1st miscast thing... are we talking about Telcis?

DarkAngelHopeful wrote:Just out of curiosity, why so much hate on Swordmasters having ASF and re-rolls? Even if it is powerful, there are always ways to counter that, right? Personally, I hope it stays.

I guess people think it's unfair. But I guess even a cheap horde unit of 40 would do good against them, for example 40 empire Halberdiers with full comman is 220, and they have a high chance of wining against those 20 swords masters and pheonix guards. People are just lazy that their old strategies doesn't work anymore.
As dwarf I would just priotarget it with my artillery.

i suppose theyre not so bad if you view them in a vaccum, but i play against smart players and i rarely get to deal with them without getting a toughness boost from magic. t7 swordmasters are no picnic, believe me.

Thorheim wrote:lv4 wizard, ignore 1st miscast thing... are we talking about Telcis?

Not necessarily, there is a 20 point magic item in the HE book that lets a wizard ignore his first miscast.

But I do still want to know if it was teclis.