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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Quote sent to all GT circuit organizers from the guy who runs the indy gt circuit ...

“I would like to clear up some questions regarding the PDF downloads of Codex: Daemonhunters and Codex: Witch Hunters that we recently made available on games-workshop.com.



These downloads do not replace or invalidate the printed codex books that customers may own; we are making the rules to field an army of Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters available, for free, to registered members of the Games Workshop website who do not already own copies of these books. We are not taking anything away from any customers, we are offering something to them. For free.



We have also removed the rules for Allied Space Marines and Inducted Imperial Guard from the PDF downloads. Again, if customers with the printed codex books wish to continue to use these rules from the books they have bought, they can do so. Customers who have the downloadable PDF will be able to use it to build dedicated Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters armies. Customers should use whatever resources are available to them for building armies and playing games, whether those are printed books or PDF downloads.”
   
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

So are you gonna allow allies in guard/marine armies or not? I'm a vote for no

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Haha, thankfully the above is pretty clear cut, so I don't *HAVE* to "make a ruling." Allies are still good, so long as you own the darned dex
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

AAAAHHHHHHH NOOOOOOO!!!!!! I'm gonna burn everyone who's attending the NovaOpen's copy!

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I have no rulings that prevent the burning of other players' rulebooks. Unfortunately, that's illegal in the US one way or another.
   
Made in gb
Beard Squig




Bahh! I though it meant they would be re-doing the inquistion soon.

Whatever happened to Xenos hunters. They said they were going to do them when they released Witchhunters.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




wow, that didn't answer anything. So you can use allies if you want to, but we took them out, but you can do whatever you want if you want to?

Indy GT wins again!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It answers it in that they are allowing people to use their codices for allies. So, allies are still legal.
   
Made in us
Hunter with Harpoon Laucher




Castle Clarkenstein

evilsponge wrote:wow, that didn't answer anything. So you can use allies if you want to, but we took them out, but you can do whatever you want if you want to?

Indy GT wins again!


Actually, they answered everything. They aren't in the FREE online version, which DOES NOT replace the current codices. Current codices are just as valid as they were a month ago.

The books are out of stock at GW, and they don't want to do another print run, which probably hints at new versions coming out in the next year or two. Until then, they compromise by not re-printing and making it free online.

....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





Massachusetts

mikhaila wrote:
evilsponge wrote:wow, that didn't answer anything. So you can use allies if you want to, but we took them out, but you can do whatever you want if you want to?

Indy GT wins again!


Actually, they answered everything. They aren't in the FREE online version, which DOES NOT replace the current codices. Current codices are just as valid as they were a month ago.

The books are out of stock at GW, and they don't want to do another print run, which probably hints at new versions coming out in the next year or two. Until then, they compromise by not re-printing and making it free online.


Why cut out the allies rules though and create two different versions of the same book that are both equally valid by their own admission? It's not that said nothing, it's that they said no matter what you choose to do it's right. For Christ's sake, they should take a stand on their own rules. No more allies; fine, you edited the free copies to indicate that, now just say it. Still allies; well how about a full scan of the current codices instead of an edited cluster-feth. Seriously, why can't they pick one way and do it right?

That's what angers me.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Neconilis wrote:
mikhaila wrote:
evilsponge wrote:wow, that didn't answer anything. So you can use allies if you want to, but we took them out, but you can do whatever you want if you want to?

Indy GT wins again!


Actually, they answered everything. They aren't in the FREE online version, which DOES NOT replace the current codices. Current codices are just as valid as they were a month ago.

The books are out of stock at GW, and they don't want to do another print run, which probably hints at new versions coming out in the next year or two. Until then, they compromise by not re-printing and making it free online.


Why cut out the allies rules though and create two different versions of the same book that are both equally valid by their own admission? It's not that said nothing, it's that they said no matter what you choose to do it's right. For Christ's sake, they should take a stand on their own rules. No more allies; fine, you edited the free copies to indicate that, now just say it. Still allies; well how about a full scan of the current codices instead of an edited cluster-feth. Seriously, why can't they pick one way and do it right?

That's what angers me.


My point exactly. Either have them and keep the allies section, or disallow them and take the allies section out. Having two different versions of the same codex both legal is only going to frustrate and confuse non-WH players.
   
Made in us
Hunter with Harpoon Laucher




Castle Clarkenstein

Neconilis wrote:
mikhaila wrote:
evilsponge wrote:wow, that didn't answer anything. So you can use allies if you want to, but we took them out, but you can do whatever you want if you want to?

Indy GT wins again!


Actually, they answered everything. They aren't in the FREE online version, which DOES NOT replace the current codices. Current codices are just as valid as they were a month ago.

The books are out of stock at GW, and they don't want to do another print run, which probably hints at new versions coming out in the next year or two. Until then, they compromise by not re-printing and making it free online.


Why cut out the allies rules though and create two different versions of the same book that are both equally valid by their own admission? It's not that said nothing, it's that they said no matter what you choose to do it's right. For Christ's sake, they should take a stand on their own rules. No more allies; fine, you edited the free copies to indicate that, now just say it. Still allies; well how about a full scan of the current codices instead of an edited cluster-feth. Seriously, why can't they pick one way and do it right?

That's what angers me.


You anger easily then.)

If you bought your codex. Nothing changed. Because of that, nothing changes in tournaments.

These downloads do not replace or invalidate the printed codex books that customers may own; we are making the rules to field an army of Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters available, for free, to registered members of the Games Workshop website who do not already own copies of these books. We are not taking anything away from any customers, we are offering something to them. For free.

Anyone who wants to actually own a copy of the book won't have trouble getting one off ebay, or a copy of the rules from somewhere. No TO is going to ban your allies if you forgot your book.

Nothing has changed.

Now, if that's why your angry, because you really want allies to go away, then just wait a year or two. It certainly looks like things are heading that way.

Do we really have people asking GW to invalidate the codices of people that have paid money for them, and take away part of their armies?!


....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

yet another dumb answer from GW.. Sure it doesnt invalidate the print versions but what if you dont HAVE the print versions? Can you not use allies then?

The non-english versions all have those pages still in the PDF version, seems like a typo that GW doesnt want to fix. Its absurd that they would allow two totally different books to be circulated and used.

The correct answer is to say "yes" or "no" not yes AND no. Im going to go to some ancient hobby shop that only has the 3rd ed chaos book in stock and buy it.. Oh looks like I couldnt get my hands on the current codex! Guess Ill just use whatever I had available at the time. Time to bring back the awesome demon princes!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/27 19:59:18


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That still doesn't explain why they took the trouble to remove that section if they didn't want it invalidated. Its not a question of liking allies or not liking them, its a simple request for a little consistency.

Now I gotta carry around a copy of this email when new players ask me what inducted guard are doing in my WH army so they don't think I'm pulling some shenanigans or using an out dated codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/27 19:59:43


 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut







They just did it and we had a long non constructive discussion about it in another thread that was closed because of that.

Hive Fleet Ouroboros (my Tyranid blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286852.page
The Dusk-Wraiths of Szith Morcane (my Dark Eldar blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/364786.page
Kroothawk's Malifaux Blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/455759.page
If you want to understand the concept of the "Greater Good", read this article, and you never again call Tau commies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism 
   
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Read the first post, Kroothawk. More formal confirmation that allies are still legal.
   
Made in us
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Castle Clarkenstein

evilsponge wrote:That still doesn't explain why they took the trouble to remove that section if they didn't want it invalidated. Its not a question of liking allies or not liking them, its a simple request for a little consistency.

Now I gotta carry around a copy of this email when new players ask me what inducted guard are doing in my WH army so they don't think I'm pulling some shenanigans or using an out dated codex.


You print out your army from the pdf, and staple the email to the back, or put the folded email in your codex. Really, really difficult. Lets discuss it for a few pages more.)

....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




And who exactly wrote this email?

This doesn't clear anything up if it's not made official publicly.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




mikhaila wrote:
evilsponge wrote:That still doesn't explain why they took the trouble to remove that section if they didn't want it invalidated. Its not a question of liking allies or not liking them, its a simple request for a little consistency.

Now I gotta carry around a copy of this email when new players ask me what inducted guard are doing in my WH army so they don't think I'm pulling some shenanigans or using an out dated codex.


You print out your army from the pdf, and staple the email to the back, or put the folded email in your codex. Really, really difficult. Lets discuss it for a few pages more.)


You're still side stepping the point of my post. If you don't want to discuss the issue you don't have to post in this thread
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut







MVBrandt wrote:Read the first post, Kroothawk. More formal confirmation that allies are still legal.

I am aware of that. I was addressing the discussion of allies rules in a news&rumour thread and the inevitable spamming and flaming that accompanies all recent Sororitas threads, always leading to a lock by the mods after 6-8 annoying pages.

Hive Fleet Ouroboros (my Tyranid blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286852.page
The Dusk-Wraiths of Szith Morcane (my Dark Eldar blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/364786.page
Kroothawk's Malifaux Blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/455759.page
If you want to understand the concept of the "Greater Good", read this article, and you never again call Tau commies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Fair enough, I'll stop
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

Kroothawk wrote:
MVBrandt wrote:Read the first post, Kroothawk. More formal confirmation that allies are still legal.

I am aware of that. I was addressing the discussion of allies rules in a news&rumour thread and the inevitable spamming and flaming that accompanies all recent Sororitas threads, always leading to a lock by the mods after 6-8 annoying pages.


Uh oh youve done it now.. You mentioned Sororitas.. Incoming

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UK

Go not to Games Workshop for counsel, for they will say both yes and no.

   
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Steelcity

heh yeah.. all that "ruling" says to me is "use whatever codex you bought, who cares if its the right one.. we cant be bothered "

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Kirasu wrote:heh yeah.. all that "ruling" says to me is "use whatever codex you bought, who cares if its the right one.. we cant be bothered "


What it says to me is: We have these two out-of-print codexes that are about to be redone. We're not going to stop people who already have them from using them, and we're offering the codexes for free for those who want to check them out... but since they're being redone, we've taken out the bit that will probably be removed from the new versions of these books so that people who start building an army now won't find themselves with a half-finished army that's already unusable...


But if being angry about GW offering a codex for free download makes you feel better about your hobby, by all means carry on.

 
   
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[DCM]
GW Public Relations Manager (Privateer Press Mole)







insaniak wrote:
Kirasu wrote:heh yeah.. all that "ruling" says to me is "use whatever codex you bought, who cares if its the right one.. we cant be bothered "


What it says to me is: We have these two out-of-print codexes that are about to be redone. We're not going to stop people who already have them from using them, and we're offering the codexes for free for those who want to check them out... but since they're being redone, we've taken out the bit that will probably be removed from the new versions of these books so that people who start building an army now won't find themselves with a half-finished army that's already unusable...


But if being angry about GW offering a codex for free download makes you feel better about your hobby, by all means carry on.


I absolutely agree. This seems like the most compromising ruling they could have possibly made (about a free codex they are distributing).

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Made in us
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Massachusetts

mikhaila wrote:
Neconilis wrote:
mikhaila wrote:
evilsponge wrote:wow, that didn't answer anything. So you can use allies if you want to, but we took them out, but you can do whatever you want if you want to?

Indy GT wins again!


Actually, they answered everything. They aren't in the FREE online version, which DOES NOT replace the current codices. Current codices are just as valid as they were a month ago.

The books are out of stock at GW, and they don't want to do another print run, which probably hints at new versions coming out in the next year or two. Until then, they compromise by not re-printing and making it free online.


Why cut out the allies rules though and create two different versions of the same book that are both equally valid by their own admission? It's not that said nothing, it's that they said no matter what you choose to do it's right. For Christ's sake, they should take a stand on their own rules. No more allies; fine, you edited the free copies to indicate that, now just say it. Still allies; well how about a full scan of the current codices instead of an edited cluster-feth. Seriously, why can't they pick one way and do it right?

That's what angers me.


You anger easily then.)

If you bought your codex. Nothing changed. Because of that, nothing changes in tournaments.

These downloads do not replace or invalidate the printed codex books that customers may own; we are making the rules to field an army of Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters available, for free, to registered members of the Games Workshop website who do not already own copies of these books. We are not taking anything away from any customers, we are offering something to them. For free.

Anyone who wants to actually own a copy of the book won't have trouble getting one off ebay, or a copy of the rules from somewhere. No TO is going to ban your allies if you forgot your book.

Nothing has changed.

Now, if that's why your angry, because you really want allies to go away, then just wait a year or two. It certainly looks like things are heading that way.

Do we really have people asking GW to invalidate the codices of people that have paid money for them, and take away part of their armies?!



I could care less about what their ruling is, only that they implement it in a competent manor. So please don't pigeonhole me as an allies detractor because I find GW's handling of this to be sloppy. I thought I made that clear above. But yes, do you truly not see the foolishness in having two different versions of a codex that are both legal? The eBay, or go pirate the old book and print it answer is a cop out. If that's the answer why even bother posting rules online on their site when they're incomplete because they don't have all of the parts of the older and still perfectly legal codices? It simply makes no sense to me and it's sloppy. And no, I'm not asking that GW invalidate the old codices of people who paid for them. What I am asking is that if that is their intent, to keep the old books legal, then these new non-replacement release need to have all of the same info. What is the problem with that? Do something right or don't do it at all.

P.S.: I will give you that angry is a strong word, it's certainly irritating and disappointing though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AgeOfEgos wrote:
insaniak wrote:
Kirasu wrote:heh yeah.. all that "ruling" says to me is "use whatever codex you bought, who cares if its the right one.. we cant be bothered "


What it says to me is: We have these two out-of-print codexes that are about to be redone. We're not going to stop people who already have them from using them, and we're offering the codexes for free for those who want to check them out... but since they're being redone, we've taken out the bit that will probably be removed from the new versions of these books so that people who start building an army now won't find themselves with a half-finished army that's already unusable...


But if being angry about GW offering a codex for free download makes you feel better about your hobby, by all means carry on.


I absolutely agree. This seems like the most compromising ruling they could have possibly made (about a free codex they are distributing).


If there was that level of transparency and they actually said that it'd be fine, as I thought that too and you're probably right. There isn't though, and we're stuck with something which simply looks unprofessional and somewhat confusing. Especially to newer gamers and ones who don't spend hours of their day reading forums.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/06/27 21:27:57


 
   
Made in au
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Under the couch

Neconilis wrote: But yes, do you truly not see the foolishness in having two different versions of a codex that are both legal?


Yup, it's bound to cause huge problems. I can see the news headlines now:

"This just in: A Warhammer 40000 player in Chicago, Illinois was today angered and confused when his opponent turned up at the table with a Daemon Hunters army that contained no allies!..."



Seriously, there are far bigger things in this hobby to get cranky about. It's a free codex.

 
   
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Castle Clarkenstein

evilsponge wrote:
mikhaila wrote:
evilsponge wrote:That still doesn't explain why they took the trouble to remove that section if they didn't want it invalidated. Its not a question of liking allies or not liking them, its a simple request for a little consistency.

Now I gotta carry around a copy of this email when new players ask me what inducted guard are doing in my WH army so they don't think I'm pulling some shenanigans or using an out dated codex.


You print out your army from the pdf, and staple the email to the back, or put the folded email in your codex. Really, really difficult. Lets discuss it for a few pages more.)


You're still side stepping the point of my post. If you don't want to discuss the issue you don't have to post in this thread


Not side stepping, I don't think you have a point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Especially to newer gamers and ones who don't spend hours of their day reading forums.

New gamers probably don't care, actually.

And taking out the allies section is actually a good thing for a new gamer. They really don't want to go building an army with allies if the rules for those allies are on the way out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/27 21:35:39


....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

I think the irony of being able to download the codex for free but not being able to buy battle sister boxsets is hilarious

This boxed set contains 10 Sisters of Battle and includes 1 Sister Superior, 1 Sister with flamer and Sister with a storm bolter.

Availability: No Longer Available Part Code: 99110108062

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/27 21:37:33


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