Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/06/13 06:49:47
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
The Skyhammer Annihilation Force comprises:
- Two Assault Squads with Jump Packs
- Two Devastator Squads in Drop Pods
And no less than four special rules:
- Shock Deployment: All units in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force start the game in Deep Strike Reserve. Instead of using the normal deployment and reserve rules for these units, you can, during deployment, choose whether this Formation will arrive during your first or second turn. The entire Skyhammer Annihilation Force automatically arrives on the turn you choose—no Reserve Rolls are required. Ignore this Formation's Drop Pods for the purposes of the Drop Pod Assault special rule.
- First the Fire, then the Blade: On the turn they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve, the Devastator Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force have the Relentless special rule and the Assault Squads can charge even though they arrived from Reserves that turn.
- Suppressing Fusillade: A unit targeted by a Skyhammer Annihilation Force's Devastator Squad in the Shooting phase must take a Morale test at the end of the phase on 3D6, regardless of how many casualties were inflicted. If the test is failed, the enemy unit does not Fall Back, but must immediately Go to Ground. If the test is passed, the enemy unit is unable to fire Overwatch for the rest of the turn.
- Leave No Survivors: Assault Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force can use their Jump Packs in both the Movement phase and the Assault phase. If an Assault Squad from a Skyhammer Annihilation Force charges a unit that has Gone to Ground as a result of the Suppressing Fusillade special rule, that Assault Squad can reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls in the ensuring Assault phase.
My immediate impression is - "Whoah. That could be devastating." But the more I think about it, the more I'm unsure. I mean, it's better than the Blood Angels' Angel's Fury Alpha Strike detachment as there's no real tax to be had here. But will a 10-man SM Assault Squad really get the job done? Will it do what you need it to do?
Man, I wish there was a real Black Library where I could get a Black Library Card and take out Black Library Books without having to buy them. Of course, late fees would be your soul. But it would be worth it. - InquisitorMack
2015/06/13 07:27:20
Subject: Re:New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
Gotta push those kits, I guess. This formation is a good way to get a bunch of squads of Grav Devs down field. Drop your two pods from this formation, then choose to drop MORE Grav Devs from your primary force. The fact the ASM can charge the turn they arrive is nice. I dunno, this formation has a lot going for it, but I don't know if it is realy worth it.
Well, two sets of four Grav cannons is 40 Grav shots the turn they drop. Devastator doctrine on top of that, means that two units are going to die hard. Follow that up with an assault marine charge...
2 5man dev squads with gravs and pods are 490 points. 2 assault squads with all of the trimmings total 520 pts (2 flamers, 2 eviscerators, power weapon on sergeant, melta bomb, veteran upgrade)
1010 points, and you can easily shave a bunch if you don't take the eviscerators or the veteran upgrades. Heck, dropping those would make it 890.
Heck, just run the assault squads with chainswords and bolt pistols and it is 850 even. 1000 points left to buy Grav centurions in a pod, Tigurius, outflanking scouts, or Draigo/Tigurius/gk Libby/centurions and scout/strike squad tax.
I... I might pick that formation up. Jesus. 55 Grav Cannon shots in an opponents face turn one. With the added podturions, that is.
Also, merry marinemas, brothers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/13 07:46:23
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2015/06/13 07:50:15
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
Crazyterran wrote: 55 Grav Cannon shots in an opponents face turn one. With the added podturions, that is.
Also, merry marinemas, brothers.
Good lord! Though, in reality, what exactly are you going to be able to take down with that if you don't have split fire on the devs? Two big things? Obviously the Dev Cents don't have that problem.
Crazyterran wrote: 55 Grav Cannon shots in an opponents face turn one. With the added podturions, that is.
Also, merry marinemas, brothers.
Good lord! Though, in reality, what exactly are you going to be able to take down with that if you don't have split fire on the devs? Two big things? Obviously the Dev Cents don't have that problem.
2 things from those devastaors, 1-2 things from the pod centurions, then whatever damage the assault squad wrecks with essentially 4 attacks on the charge, re rolling to hit and to wound. (1 base, 1 ccw, 1 charge, 1 hammer of wrath).*
If whatever you hit with 20-40 Grav shots survives. Like you are playing orks or daemons or something.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/13 08:08:55
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2015/06/13 09:11:21
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
Just had a look at the Dev box contents on bitsandkits.co.uk and have to say I'm a bit disappointed. The lensed helmets had me really excited, but they all look off. Overloaded and poorly designed/scaled. Bare heads are dreadful.The torsos are decidedly meh and I'm not even that impressed by the legs anymore.
Got some Assault bits from the same site through the post today and while most of those are more satisfying, the legs are crushingly disappointing. Poseable? Pah. It's nice to have some new legs in motion, but to claim they are poseable is misleadeding at best.
The Skyhammer Annihilation Force comprises:
- Two Assault Squads with Jump Packs
- Two Devastator Squads in Drop Pods
And no less than four special rules:
- Shock Deployment: All units in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force start the game in Deep Strike Reserve. Instead of using the normal deployment and reserve rules for these units, you can, during deployment, choose whether this Formation will arrive during your first or second turn. The entire Skyhammer Annihilation Force automatically arrives on the turn you choose—no Reserve Rolls are required. Ignore this Formation's Drop Pods for the purposes of the Drop Pod Assault special rule.
- First the Fire, then the Blade: On the turn they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve, the Devastator Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force have the Relentless special rule and the Assault Squads can charge even though they arrived from Reserves that turn.
- Suppressing Fusillade: A unit targeted by a Skyhammer Annihilation Force's Devastator Squad in the Shooting phase must take a Morale test at the end of the phase on 3D6, regardless of how many casualties were inflicted. If the test is failed, the enemy unit does not Fall Back, but must immediately Go to Ground. If the test is passed, the enemy unit is unable to fire Overwatch for the rest of the turn.
- Leave No Survivors: Assault Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force can use their Jump Packs in both the Movement phase and the Assault phase. If an Assault Squad from a Skyhammer Annihilation Force charges a unit that has Gone to Ground as a result of the Suppressing Fusillade special rule, that Assault Squad can reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls in the ensuring Assault phase.
My immediate impression is - "Whoah. That could be devastating." But the more I think about it, the more I'm unsure. I mean, it's better than the Blood Angels' Angel's Fury Alpha Strike detachment as there's no real tax to be had here. But will a 10-man SM Assault Squad really get the job done? Will it do what you need it to do?
It's not about getting the job done, its about crippling your enemy. You dont need to kill a unit for that. Now you can lock an enemy unit in CC from turn 1, before they are able to shoot a single shot (except overwatch maybe).. Thats brutal. Just pick your enemies best shooty bits and shut them down for some turns until the real CC experts arrive. Everything else that might help them out to get free will be taken on by the devastors. Droppods where unbalanced (too cheap) without this special rules. Now they are just silly.
If your interested in fluffy battles, this formation might be nice, but for regular games is just another OP-formation-nonsense. I think GW has finally found the final nail in the coffin for competitive 40k ---> formations
2015/06/13 09:43:19
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
I really dislike crippling alpha strikes... Where's the fun in half your army being gone before you get to do anything? I'm glad no one in my group runs those kinds of lists.
2015/06/13 11:12:12
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
sockwithaticket wrote: Just had a look at the Dev box contents on bitsandkits.co.uk and have to say I'm a bit disappointed. The lensed helmets had me really excited, but they all look off. Overloaded and poorly designed/scaled. Bare heads are dreadful.The torsos are decidedly meh and I'm not even that impressed by the legs anymore.
Got some Assault bits from the same site through the post today and while most of those are more satisfying, the legs are crushingly disappointing. Poseable? Pah. It's nice to have some new legs in motion, but to claim they are poseable is misleadeding at best.
The ASM legs are posable -- just cut off the guide tab, just like the marshmallow robot.
I don't know what you mean with the devastators. You get awesome torsos, legs, chests and helmets. I think the targeting reticle a were great. It's cool, too, that you get 7 front torsos and 6 legs
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/13 11:13:34
2015/06/13 11:42:16
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
sockwithaticket wrote: Just had a look at the Dev box contents on bitsandkits.co.uk and have to say I'm a bit disappointed. The lensed helmets had me really excited, but they all look off. Overloaded and poorly designed/scaled. Bare heads are dreadful.The torsos are decidedly meh and I'm not even that impressed by the legs anymore.
Got some Assault bits from the same site through the post today and while most of those are more satisfying, the legs are crushingly disappointing. Poseable? Pah. It's nice to have some new legs in motion, but to claim they are poseable is misleadeding at best.
The ASM legs are posable -- just cut off the guide tab, just like the marshmallow robot.
I don't know what you mean with the devastators. You get awesome torsos, legs, chests and helmets. I think the targeting reticle a were great. It's cool, too, that you get 7 front torsos and 6 legs
I've already done that and, sure, you can rotate the leg you're attaching, but if a realistic/practical pose is your goal you really can't deviate much from the intended positioning. At least that's my impression after half an hour of mucking around with them. In fact I've found you need to remove the guide tab to normalise a couple of the stock poses, just little rotations, but entirely necessary if they're to look right.
Regarding the devastators I think the targetting reticules were a good idea poorly executed. Many of the primary lenses look far too large and there are too many of them. I like most of the current targetter heads as they usually have one sensibly sized lens, perhaps one smaller secondary one and what seems to be a laser tracer, practical and uncluttered. I know I can keep using them rather than these, but it's always nice to find a little more variety. The only torso in that bunch that makes me go 'I must have that in my army' is the Mk. VIII one.
That Skyhammer Skyhammer Annihilation Force bundle with formation rules is the closest thing to "day 1 DLC" we will get.
Looks nice tho.
Could read some of it, seems like they have a special rule named “First The Fire, Then The Blades”
Devastators get relentless the turn they arrive in the drop pods and Assault marines may charge the turn they arrive from Deep Strike.
Also is a rule that looks like it's called “Leave No Survivors”
Could only get some of it from the low res picture on GW page. Get is as Assault Marines can jump both in movement and in assault.
2015/06/13 12:33:19
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
WindsOfFury wrote: That Skyhammer Skyhammer Annihilation Force bundle with formation rules is the closest thing to "day 1 DLC" we will get.
Looks nice tho.
Could read some of it, seems like they have a special rule named “First The Fire, Then The Blades”
Devastators get relentless the turn they arrive in the drop pods and Assault marines may charge the turn they arrive from Deep Strike.
Also is a rule that looks like it's called “Leave No Survivors”
Could only get some of it from the low res picture on GW page. Get is as Assault Marines can jump both in movement and in assault.
Just look further up the page. Sounds a bit ridiculous to me, the only other formation I can think of which allows drop pod + assault is the Khorne Berzerker and Kharybdis blood something. But given the price of the Kharybdis, and the fact you have to take a 20 man squad of Berzerkers, it just doesn't seem very efficient.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
2015/06/13 12:47:28
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
My Deathwing terminators aren't too impressed with that formation since that' pretty much what we should be doing. I guess it does leave me some hope that the DA codex will have some good detachments.
2015/06/13 14:26:40
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
Since I posted that, I've been giving some though to what you could do with it. Sure, everyone's high on Grav Devs right now, but what about taking advantage of Relentless and dropping MMDevs? Make 'em Imperial Fists. Want to kill a Knight or two first turn? Combat squad them for taking out a higher number of transports and/or light tanks. Run them as Salamanders with Vulkan to twin-link those MM's. Run it in a Raptors army with Lias Issodon so you get the first strike with those, plus Issodon hitting units prior to Turn 1.
It also got me thinking, not only is this a good ruse for GW to sell Dev Squads. It's also a good way to sell Stalkers and other Interceptor models.
Man, I wish there was a real Black Library where I could get a Black Library Card and take out Black Library Books without having to buy them. Of course, late fees would be your soul. But it would be worth it. - InquisitorMack
2015/06/13 15:22:06
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
Death By Monkeys wrote: Since I posted that, I've been giving some though to what you could do with it. Sure, everyone's high on Grav Devs right now, but what about taking advantage of Relentless and dropping MMDevs? Make 'em Imperial Fists. Want to kill a Knight or two first turn? Combat squad them for taking out a higher number of transports and/or light tanks. Run them as Salamanders with Vulkan to twin-link those MM's. Run it in a Raptors army with Lias Issodon so you get the first strike with those, plus Issodon hitting units prior to Turn 1.
It also got me thinking, not only is this a good ruse for GW to sell Dev Squads. It's also a good way to sell Stalkers and other Interceptor models.
Yeah, I think the key here is you can get this REALLY Cheap.
5 Devs 70 + Drop Pod 35 - 105 5 Devs 70 + Drop Pod 35 - 105 5 Assault Squad with Flamer and MB - 80 5 Assault Squad with Flamer and MB - 80 370 Points before Heavy Weapons. This is the new version of the firebase support cadre.
I could easily slot this into either my SW Pod army or my SOB army without a problem. What're the cheap heavies? MM for 10 a pop? 450?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/13 15:25:34
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2015/06/13 15:25:47
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
That formation is really too much, to be honest. I'd put it up right up there with webway D-sycthes...whatever you point it at will die, with virtually no defenses. I'd feel bad about playing it.
5000
Who knows?
2015/06/13 15:28:13
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
Colpicklejar wrote: That formation is really too much, to be honest. I'd put it up right up there with webway D-sycthes...whatever you point it at will die, with virtually no defenses. I'd feel bad about playing it.
Actually, it's worse if you don't annihilate just one thing.
With MM on the Devs, you nuke two big things. Then you assault two other things to tie them up during turn one while the rest of your stuff spreads out. Just shut down 4 units on turn 1.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2015/06/13 15:29:16
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
Death By Monkeys wrote: Since I posted that, I've been giving some though to what you could do with it. Sure, everyone's high on Grav Devs right now, but what about taking advantage of Relentless and dropping MMDevs? Make 'em Imperial Fists. Want to kill a Knight or two first turn? Combat squad them for taking out a higher number of transports and/or light tanks. Run them as Salamanders with Vulkan to twin-link those MM's. Run it in a Raptors army with Lias Issodon so you get the first strike with those, plus Issodon hitting units prior to Turn 1.
It also got me thinking, not only is this a good ruse for GW to sell Dev Squads. It's also a good way to sell Stalkers and other Interceptor models.
Yeah, I think the key here is you can get this REALLY Cheap.
5 Devs 70 + Drop Pod 35 - 105
5 Devs 70 + Drop Pod 35 - 105
5 Assault Squad with Flamer and MB - 80
5 Assault Squad with Flamer and MB - 80
370 Points before Heavy Weapons. This is the new version of the firebase support cadre.
I could easily slot this into either my SW Pod army or my SOB army without a problem. What're the cheap heavies? MM for 10 a pop? 450?
There's some text in the restrictions box. I'd guess squads will have to be 10 strong to go with the stuff you'd actually buy in the bundle.
Still.
2015/06/13 15:38:21
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
Colpicklejar wrote: That formation is really too much, to be honest. I'd put it up right up there with webway D-sycthes...whatever you point it at will die, with virtually no defenses. I'd feel bad about playing it.
Actually, it's worse if you don't annihilate just one thing.
With MM on the Devs, you nuke two big things. Then you assault two other things to tie them up during turn one while the rest of your stuff spreads out. Just shut down 4 units on turn 1.
Very true. I dub this formation Excommunicate Cheesetoris
5000
Who knows?
2015/06/13 15:45:45
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
And really, most any marine army has the bits to make it happen too. It isn't even tough to build.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2015/06/13 15:48:07
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
Colpicklejar wrote: That formation is really too much, to be honest. I'd put it up right up there with webway D-sycthes...whatever you point it at will die, with virtually no defenses. I'd feel bad about playing it.
The way formations are going, I think the next few years are going to be all about building and painting, and not so much playing.
2015/06/13 16:10:10
Subject: Re:New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby
My immediate impression is - "Whoah. That could be devastating." But the more I think about it, the more I'm unsure. I mean, it's better than the Blood Angels' Angel's Fury Alpha Strike detachment as there's no real tax to be had here. But will a 10-man SM Assault Squad really get the job done? Will it do what you need it to do?
The formation is just two assault squads with jump packs and two dev squads in pods.
There's no restriction to the number... or which battle brothers join the jump pack marines and pods.
Every single angry, smashy IC in the Imperium of Man just got the perfect turn one assault delivery system.
You could even put IG priests in there to give them re-rollable saves in CC.
GW in one fell swoop granted the wish of every competitive Marine player.
Behold, the age of the Assault Squad. Never did I think I'd see this day come.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/13 16:44:55
5250 pts
3850 pts
2500 pts 
Sounds a bit ridiculous to me, the only other formation I can think of which allows drop pod + assault is the Khorne Berzerker and Kharybdis blood something. But given the price of the Kharybdis, and the fact you have to take a 20 man squad of Berzerkers, it just doesn't seem very efficient.
5000
Who knows? 
Legion: Dark Angels 
Mechanicus
Ravenwing
Deathwing