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I currently have 10 points left over and I don't know what to do with it. At the moment however, what are your opinions on this list? Good? Steaming pile of something? I'm going to be playtesting a few different IG variants, such as gunline, assault IG and Mechvet, just to get an idea of what I'm most comfortable playing. This is my attempt at a Mechvet list, so tell me what you think.

HQ:

Company Command Squad + 4 Meltaguns + Astropath + ML/HF Chimera - 175

Troops:

Vets + 3 Meltaguns + ML/HF Chimera - 155

Vets + 3 Meltaguns + ML/HF Chimera - 155

Vets + 2 Flamers + 1 HF + ML/HF Chimera - 155

Fast Attack:

Vendetta - 3 TL Lascannons - 130

Vendetta - 3 TL Lascannons - 130

Heavy Support:

Hydra - 75

Hydra - 75

Colossus Siege Mortar - 140

1190 Total.

So am I on the right track, or way off? The tournament is a fair way off so model availability isn't an issue - if it works well I will buy it.

Not too shabby. What's the astopath for?

That and, with all the heavy flamers you're lugging around for free, spending 20 points for an infantry heavy flamer seems awfully silly. I'd turn those 2 regular flamer and a heavy flamer into 3 meltaguns.

The idea I had going with those flamer vets was to use them as a poor man's flamer wagon. I ran something similar with a platoon command squad in a previous tourney I entered and I was happy with its performance, so I thought I'd try replicate it with vets. As for the Astropath, I'm planning on outflanking my Vendettas to take pot shots at rear armour for guaranteed kills, or perhaps a meltavet chimera or two instead. I'm not sure yet, but something will be outflanking!

Tournament he's (we're) playing in is not filled with uber-competitive types. The scenarios can be odd, at least 2 of them last year had whole armies or all non-scoring units start in reserve.

Best I could come up with was make the squads 2 melta and 1 flamer; this gives you an even 150pts per squad and gives them a great anti armor with the ability to deal with infantry.

As said, drop the heavy flamer vet; you can get 2 melta's for that one flamer that will likely do as much damage as the melta's when facing off against the tougher/armored infantry units, sure it gets the auto hit, but doesn't shake off armor saves as well as the melta does.


Doing the above gives you an additional 15 points to the 10 you got; I can't think of anything for 25 points, another 5 and I would say 3 rattlings, sure they kinda suck, but great filler as no one really pays attention to them unless they have too, and they can do well at picking off infantry that are sitting on needed objectives.

I'd say take two stubbers, the 360 field of fire gives them great use even if the vehicle is immobilized, and while not the most effective weapons on the block, they have proven to pull off amazing results at needed times. Put them on the Chimera's of course, as they would likely be targeting infantry anyway.

Dracheous wrote:Best I could come up with was make the squads 2 melta and 1 flamer; this gives you an even 150pts per squad and gives them a great anti armor with the ability to deal with infantry.

As said, drop the heavy flamer vet; you can get 2 melta's for that one flamer that will likely do as much damage as the melta's when facing off against the tougher/armored infantry units, sure it gets the auto hit, but doesn't shake off armor saves as well as the melta does.


Doing the above gives you an additional 15 points to the 10 you got; I can't think of anything for 25 points, another 5 and I would say 3 rattlings, sure they kinda suck, but great filler as no one really pays attention to them unless they have too, and they can do well at picking off infantry that are sitting on needed objectives.

I'd say take two stubbers, the 360 field of fire gives them great use even if the vehicle is immobilized, and while not the most effective weapons on the block, they have proven to pull off amazing results at needed times. Put them on the Chimera's of course, as they would likely be targeting infantry anyway.

I like the idea of two meltas and flamer, so I think I'm gonna run with it. Here's my updated list below:

HQ:

Company Command Squad + 4 GL + ML/HB Chimera + HS - 135

Troops:

Vets + 2 Meltaguns + 1 Flamer + ML/HF Chimera + HS - 160

Vets + 2 Meltaguns + 1 Flamer + ML/HF Chimera + HS - 160

Vets + 2 Meltaguns + 1 Flamer + ML/HF Chimera + HS - 160

Fast Attack:

Vendetta - 3 TL Lascannons - 130

Vendetta - 3 TL Lascannons - 130

Heavy Support:

Hydra - 75

Hydra - 75

Colossus Siege Mortar - 140

1165 Total.

Why the changes to my HQ? Well I had a bit of a think, and decided that I have enough anti-armour in the form of vets and Vendettas, so I went for a the middle-of-the-road option. GL are effective crowd-controllers when used en masse, and they can be used to counter light vehicles in a pinch. With this in mind I removed my Astropath because I prefer to have all my anti-tank units on the table at the beginning, rather than hope they show up when I need them.

Also, I changed the way I kitted out my command Chimera slightly; I gave it a ML/HB combo instead of the HF. That way I can keep it about 24" away from immediate danger and still use all its weapons and the weapons of its occupants to their fullest.

Looks good. It looks like you have 35 points left. If you dropped the 4x HS on the chims, you could get a Griffon or another Hydra.

dimmy52 wrote:I like the idea of two meltas and flamer

Like it all you want, it's a bad idea. Mixing weapons, wasting BS4, poorly duplicating the role of the heavy flamer on the chimeras, etc...

As for the list in general, it otherwise looks fine. As for the remainder of the points, I'd first use it to buy some real special weapons for your command squad (either melta or plasma), and use the remaining points for either meltabombs or meltagun upgrades for your vets with flamers.

Ailaros wrote:

dimmy52 wrote:I like the idea of two meltas and flamer

Like it all you want, it's a bad idea. Mixing weapons, wasting BS4, poorly duplicating the role of the heavy flamer on the chimeras, etc...

As for the list in general, it otherwise looks fine. As for the remainder of the points, I'd first use it to buy some real special weapons for your command squad (either melta or plasma), and use the remaining points for either meltabombs or meltagun upgrades for your vets with flamers.

I like to think of it less as duplicating, more like complementing. But I see your point. The main thing I have concerns about is my ability to deal with horde armies, hence why I'm stacking up on flamers. Chimeras are great as flamer-mobiles, but they're usually the first thing that gets wrecked, especially in a mech army such as this. That's why I have a backup supply of flamers.

Nonetheless, I will run this list as is in a few practice matches, then run the non-flamer variant of it for the next few, and see how things go. Same with the GL on my CCS, I'll try them with GL and with PG and gauge their effectiveness.

Be sure to let us know how it goes!

Alright, I ran the list last night against Eyclonus. He gave me a sound thrashing, and we both benefited from the experience.

Firstly, I had 40-odd points to spend, so I got myself 4 ratlings as filler. They did an admirable job sniping his Lootas and going to ground for an awesome 2+ cover save in terrain. In the end I had one left, after they were shot at least three times by a volley of Loota cannons. I told him next time to ignore them all together and just go for the AV12 vehicles

But anyway, on to the match itself. I'm not going to write a batrep up seeing as this isn't the place for it, but he basically ran a kan wall with loads of shoota boyz. I ran the list I wrote just before, except with the addition of the ratlings, and the replacement of the Colossus with a Medusa. That gave me 1200 pts exactly. First and second turn was fairly predictable; kan wall advanced, I unloaded shot after shot and dismantled (but didn't destroy) a few kans. My medusa fired once and wiped out 8 boyz, then was sniped by a lucky shot from one squad of lootas.

By third turn orks were on me and I found that having 2 meltas and 1 flamer was a detriment more than a boon. Most of the time I found myself wishing I had one more melta to pop the kan wall with. However flamers are an absolute must. I need to find a way to take more of them somehow, whether it be in the form of a hellhound or just running a vet squad with flamers only.

I think the final score was 10-4. My transports gave up a lot of free kill points to him, and what flamers I had that were well positioned roasted boyz without an issue. The Grenade Launchers were absolutely brilliant. Those frag grenades wrecked havoc on tightly clumped squads of shootas. Especially when I rolled incredibly well to wound (12 out of 16 wounded when I needed 5+!) I think I played it correctly when I issued the order 'fire on my target', meaning he had to reroll his successful cover saves from the KFF? If I didn't let me know.

So what did I learn? Well...

- 2 Melta 1 Flamer is not the combination I'm looking for. While I can see its uses, it didn't help me out much here.
- That being said, Flamers are a must. Got to get more of them.
- Need to protect my Medusa more D:
- Need more long-range anti-horde. Toying with the idea of replacing one of my Vendettas with a Valkyrie.
- Manticore is also appealing. Perhaps replace my Medusa with that.

Anyway, Does anyone have any other suggestions?

That is all true except the long range anti-horde. providing bait chimeras will cause your opponent to get into nice little clusters in close combat which allows you to heavy flamer them.

And yeah, a manticore will be way better for you than a medusa.

God damned Gak-Launchers

Baiting with Chimeras may lure out PK nobs to be slaughtered, but as we saw last night, the chimeras gave up too many KP's . Also I was able to use the wrecks to block LOS from his damned Hydras. The vendettas were nice at whittling down squads, but really weren't doing much other then reducing the deffgun shots

but as we saw last night, the chimeras gave up too many KPS

and that is the problem with guard in KP based games the only real way to for us to win is to table the other guy. You go mech you've got all those transports giving up extra KP. You go horde Inf platoons are just as bad each platoon is at least 2 kp and that with blobbing.

Sorry to hear you lost, yeah mixing specials always seems like a better idea than it is.

Against ork with all the anti vehicle you already had I'd be tempted by griffons over hydra's. Hydra would be good against bikes and deffkopta but horde you want the accurate S6 AP4 large blast pinning shots.

If you are tailoring for orks then yeah a manticore might be worth the invesment.

Nah he's mostly looking at Mech MEQ. The tournament we're going to is pretty much locals with maybe 1 or 2 players who don't goto the local gamer's guild. As far as I can recall he'll be facing 2 Chaos Daemon armies, 2 Good IG players, 2 average IG, and then MEQ as far as the eye can see.

Also most people in our town play Mechanised at low point levels and for some reason at 1,850+ just stop taking transports except for LRs.

Well in that case it might be worth keeping the hydra for transport popping, saying that IMHO griffons can do that job well.

Manticore is still a good unit, the s10 can be good if your facing raiders. Only problem is its AP4 so all the those marines will still ge their cover saves, but when you do wound you'll be insta killing . Plus if one of those IG player goes horde it could be a god send. Plus the advantage over the medusa is the ability to fire indirectly, that can make them more survivable.

I think i'd go back to the first list drop the Hvy flamer for a normal one and use those points, plus the points you had spare to upgrade the Colossus to a manticore.

Alright, this is the list I've come up with based on my observations and the suggestions in this thread:

HQ:

Company Command Squad + 4 GL + ML/HF Chimera + HS - 135

Troops:

Vets + 3 Meltaguns + ML/HF Chimera + HS - 165

Vets + 3 Meltaguns + ML/HF Chimera + HS - 165

Vets + 3 Flamers + ML/HF Chimera + HS - 150

Fast Attack:

Vendetta - 3 TL Lascannons - 130

Vendetta - 3 TL Lascannons - 130

Heavy Support:

Hydra - 75

Hydra - 75

Manticore - 160

1185 Total.

I have a feeling I will need the Hydras, but I'm wondering about the efficiency of having two Vendettas. Do you think one would be enough, and I'll replace the other with a Valkyrie/Hellhound? I have two Hydras to pop light transports and annoying skimmers, and I have a Manticore to lay the smackdown on Land Raiders and other AV14 vehicles, not to mention my Melta-toting Veterans will be able to turn any vehicle into slag.

In either case, I will have 15 points to spend. Any ideas?

Not too shabby.

15 points becomes 3 flamers into meltaguns.

I would screw the GL on the HQ for meltaguns (the best unit to put meltaguns on because of the orders) and arm the veterans for all cases except for dealing with transports up close just to get countered to death by the guys inside. Flamers are always good on vets (better on PCS but without platoon vets are well armed with it). Plasma too.

personal I would exchange a vendetta and a hydra for an executioner, I think the mech focus is too high here. 2 or 3 Melta units should be enough to deal with transports. Remeber the contents.

And you always need a unit of multiple flamers to get rid of annoying things like blobs or boyz. They even outclass plasmas sometimes in killing covered MEQ.

I disagree -Nazdreg- the GL allows him to inflict a lot of casualties on blob units, especially boyz, before they get to assault distance of the chimera. Specifically with boyz, if the flamers fail to completely wipe the squad, then the nob gets a Kill point from busting the tank, and you're left with the CCS/PCS on foot.

I agree with -Nazdreg- .

You don't want to be wasting BS4 on GL's especially considering you've got 15 points left. Gl's just ain't going to help that much, frak grenade are just lasguns, if you opponent space correctly you'll get 1 maybe 2 models and against orks or MEQ your facing the same uphill strggle that lasguns have. Krak is better for killing ork boyz but at best thats 4 boyz aganst MEQ they'll still get their saves. Against transports they are meh, with four your looking at what 2 hits? on AV10, your looking at 1 glance/penertrate.

I get what Eyclonus is saying, i've had it happen to me, but I don't think GL's are the answer.

If you want to keep it cheap/anti horde go flamer. You want to make the best of the BS4 and use those spare points i'd consider melta.

SpankHammer III wrote:I agree with -Nazdreg- .

You don't want to be wasting BS4 on GL's especially considering you've got 15 points left. Gl's just ain't going to help that much, frak grenade are just lasguns, if you opponent space correctly you'll get 1 maybe 2 models and against orks or MEQ your facing the same uphill strggle that lasguns have. Krak is better for killing ork boyz but at best thats 4 boyz aganst MEQ they'll still get their saves. Against transports they are meh, with four your looking at what 2 hits? on AV10, your looking at 1 glance/penertrate.

I get what Eyclonus is saying, i've had it happen to me, but I don't think GL's are the answer.

If you want to keep it cheap/anti horde go flamer. You want to make the best of the BS4 and use those spare points i'd consider melta.

I appreciate the input, but I'll be keeping the GL. This isn't the first time I've used them on my CCS, and every time I have used them they've performed wonderfully. 4 24" s6 shots is nothing to be sniffed at, same with 4 s3 small blasts, and I will not be using my CCS to tank hunt. That's what my veterans are for. As I explained earlier, my CCS will perform the role of a gun bunker, hence why I kitted out its Chimera the way I did.

Again, appreciate the input guys, it's helping me out a lot. I'll have a tweaked list up tomorrow.

I agree AND disagree with Nazdreg

Small blast templates are crap against opponents who know how to avoid them. In the case of S3 small blasts, don't expect to ever do much damage with them (if any). Those GLs also need to be turned into something better.

However, flamers for a vet squad with a heavy flamer is a poor choice. You're wasting the BS with flamers, you're wasting the potential damage by giving them only flamers, and you're equipping them to do something that the heavy flamers on your chimeras are already doing better for cheaper.

And no, don't dump stuff for an executioner. If you want 3 high strength shots per turn... take more mechvets. They're cheaper, and give you BS4 (and they score).

dimmy52 wrote:I appreciate the input, but I'll be keeping the GL. This isn't the first time I've used them on my CCS, and every time I have used them they've performed wonderfully.

Your good luck won't hold forever...

Sorry didn't see the bit about the executioner, Ailaros is right about that.

When push comes to shove it your list man and if you like Gl's (if i'm honest I do, but i'm finding it harder and harder legitamise taking them) then take them.

happy gaming man and let me know how the list works out for you

I did a bit of soul searching, and have thus revised my list. I know I said I wouldn't remove my GL, but things change and so does my opinion Seriously though, I looked through my list and realized my army is woefully low on Anti-TEQ. So I put some PG on my Command squad. Would they work there, or should I give PG to my Vets instead?

Again, thanks for all the suggestions. I do take them into account, so keep them coming.

HQ:

Company Command Squad + 4 PG + ML/HF Chimera - 135

Troops:

Vets + 3 Meltaguns + ML/HF Chimera - 165

Vets + 3 Meltaguns + ML/HF Chimera - 165

Vets + 3 Flamers + ML/HF Chimera - 150

Fast Attack:

Vendetta - 3 TL Lascannons - 130

Vendetta - 3 TL Lascannons - 130

Heavy Support:

Hydra - 75

Hydra - 75

Manticore - 160

1185 Total.

Basically, what I'd like to know is: Will my army work well against a Vulkan list? Will my army work well against a Kan Wall, Green Tide, Mech Space Wolves, and other popular lists? Obviously I'm not looking for the ultimate list that trumps all others because such a list doesn't exist, but I would like something that won't be instantly rolled when up against its kryptonite.