Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have no idea what to write i am no good at introductions but this is my first post and i felt this would be a good way to start. I am an Imperial Guard player and i was just wondering what you think of my army. It is the theme i would realy appreciate feedback regarding my chosen theme.

I have gone for a civil war theme based on the south. I just want to clear up that I have no racist views and have have been extremely careful with what I have included. This is kinda embarrassing to mention but the idea came from the film the good the bad and the ugly. When I saw it I wanted a western themed army and in England there is nothing much more American the confederates. I chose the south for numerous reasons like I use to have the play station game Dukes of Hazzard and there are so many references to the confederates in my town like the garage Rebel motors which is represented by the rebel flag and I am a Lynard Skynard fan. I have talked about the idea with GW staff and all say it is a cool theme. That said there is very little hype about the confederates in the UK and I talked to my friends about it and they say there is nothing wrong with it. I would appreciate your opinions on the topic. I have a few pictures of the army and a few of my favourite conversions. As said it is not created to offend anyone and if you are offended I do apologise.

Most of the army has some sort of conversion like the vendetta with the long single tail fin, outriders, chimera to manticore and my favourite which is the land speeder which counts as the devil dog which is based on the doge 1969 charger or the “General Lee.”

I would also like to know how to delete the thread as i have placed the same message in two other areas for intro and army lists. I would be greatful for any help.

HA HA!

Nice General Lee there. Curious how do you use it in your army? Is it a Sentinel?

Very nice!

Now just as a heads up, this does technically belong in the Painting & Modeling forum, since we're discussing your paintjob and conversions, but that's alright.

That said, I like the concept, and the conversions are definitely very nice... especially that land speeder turned buggy.

You may want to be careful with such phrases as, "there is nothing much more American than the Confederates." A lot of people from the North will vehemently disagree with you.

But anyway, very nice concept, and I don't see anything remotely racist about it (which isn't what the Confederacy stood for anyway), so, go for it. Keep this theme going.

Although I will insist on eventually seeing a General Robert E. Lee conversion (or a closeup if one of those minis is already one).

The lanspeeder counts as a devil do and when im on about the confederates being American it is what most people in the UK assume them as. I have been thinking of a General lee conversion. Any ideas will be helpfull. Thanks

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440023a&prodId=prod20020&rootCatGameStyle=

See that guy on the right? Notice his head? Cut that off and attach it to an appropriate IG model and Ta DA! You have yourself a genuine Robert E Lee conversion.

This army needs Parrots and Napoleons for its heavy weapons. Conversion opportunities galore.

Not keen on the Southern Cross there though. You shouldn't have that on there or have it modified. You might get your ass beat and/or shot in certain locales for that, with justification.

The General Lee needs Daisy Duke hanging onto the back of course...

@Red_Lives:

The beard's good, but the hat is WAY off. I'd say no on that mini for the Lee conversion.

Actually, your best bet is to go third party for the head. Remember that if at least 70% of the model is still GW product, it's tournament legal, so head swaps are no big deal, and I'm sure you can find a good Lee head out there if you do some searching.

And really the head's the most difficult part, once you've got that it's just some minor GS work to get his uniform right.

It's a shame you can't turn your CCS into Rough Riders, 'cause that would be PERFECT for Lee.

here's some interesting brigade and other flags that might be more appropriate.
http://txscv.tripod.com/csa.htm

Frazzled wrote:here's some interesting brigade and other flags that might be more appropriate.
http://txscv.tripod.com/csa.htm

To be fair, he IS in the UK. If he brings this army to the States he might have issues in some places, but I dunno if that's how it works over there.

Although General Lee's flag is perfect for his CCS!

Yuk a team of racists Booo to the stars and bars. Why would any of those flags be more appropriate? They all stand for the same bigotry and hatred. Maybe for you next army you will do a klan army wont that be fun.

MDizzle wrote:Yuk a team of racists Booo to the stars and bars. Why would any of those flags be more appropriate? They all stand for the same bigotry and hatred. Maybe for you next army you will do a klan army wont that be fun.

See what I mean? Some people just don't get it.

Read up on your history, man. The CSA had nothing to do with bigotry or racism, and still doesn't.

MDizzle wrote:Yuk a team of racists Booo to the stars and bars. Why would any of those flags be more appropriate? They all stand for the same bigotry and hatred. Maybe for you next army you will do a klan army wont that be fun.

I would probably have a good response to that... If I could understand it

Oh yes, and the models are quite nice. Perhaps highlight the black armour on the tanks a bit and your golden.

I'm gonna drop into my history nerd mode here...

Calling it the Civil War is inaccurate. A civil war is fought between a nation itself. The "Civil War" was fought between the United States of America and the Confederate States of America. Two different countries here.

On topic! I think it's a great idea! I've never seen an army like this before and hope you continue to flesh it out. And for an objective marker, you could make a sign that reads "Washington."

CrashUSAR wrote:I'm gonna drop into my history nerd mode here...

Calling it the Civil War is inaccurate. A civil war is fought between a nation itself. The "Civil War" was fought between the United States of America and the Confederate States of America. Two different countries here.

This is a good point. What we in the States call "The Civil War" wasn't really much of a civil war at all, but a war fought between two independent countries (although the North did not see it that way). A civil war is what happens when a single country is fighting against itself.

Even so, "The Civil War" is the moniker most commonly applied by Americans when referring to that war in the mid-1800s between a bunch of our northern states and a bunch of our southern states.

CrashUSAR wrote:And for an objective marker, you could make a sign that reads "Washington."

Ha! Yes!

This is a great idea.

No it was a Civil war because the CSA was not recognized as real country. Just claiming to be a different country one day doesn't make it so. If the south had Won the war or at least fought to a stalemate and legally had itself recognized as a country in a treaty then it wouldn't have been a civil war. But Hey we won so it was a civil war since the winning side never recognized the CSA as a separate country.

Red_Lives wrote:No it was a Civil war because the CSA was not recognized as real country. Just claiming to be a different country one day doesn't make it so. If the south had Won the war or at least fought to a stalemate and legally had itself recognized as a country in a treaty then it wouldn't have been a civil war. But Hey we won so it was a civil war since the winning side never recognized the CSA as a separate country.

That all depends on who you ask.

Who recognizes a country? Its citizens? Its neighboring countries? A piece of paper?

You absolutely can say, "This is now an independent country, seperate from the United States."

Who's to say otherwise? The UN? Not all countries generally considered to be such are currently recognized by the UN or NATO.

I'd say the CSA was an independent country until the North proved otherwise.

But this is all very off-topic.

So we should probably stop discussing it.

Silly british, not getting our wars.
We only had 6 wars without you y'know, we do know how to do it ourselves!

Anyway, I personally wouldn't use the confederate flag, as it both means things to certain people (one of my ansestors was shot in the back on the yankee side) and some right-wing loonies have misinterpreteted it as the Nativist Flag (TM).

OP, you need to take some pics of the infantry head on (the only pics are from above in the first post) to show off some of the detail. as for nothing more "american", considering that the whole premise of their rebellion was that they didn't want to be part of the USA. as for the nomenclature of the war, it IS the american civil war and recognized as such world wide.

it's a nice idea. mordian esque.

as for your worries for racism, as long as you don't have any open insults usually people won't mind.

noone can say "Your a racist because you like the confedarte uniform."

thats like saying your a racist because your X nationality.

as for Klawz, I feel that calling Right wings loonies is slightly unfair. [I do realise that thats now what you mean.] ;D

And as for that entire argument, Confederates were facists, by definition.

I think it's a great idea. I'm quick to disagree with your assessment of what being American means however. We're not all dressed like Col. Sanders sipping sweet tea from the rockers on the porches of our ranch houses. Of course, I'm in the north, so my perception could also be skewed. At any rate, don't do anything obviously stupid (racist) with the army and you'll probably be fine. Especially when you calmly remind anyone who has a problem with it of the numerous socio-political justifications for the war.

@Klawz:

Remember, every group, political or otherwise, is full of loonies. The important thing to do is to make sure that you're on the side of the "Nice friendly loonies who poke fun at the _BAD_ loonies."

Frazzled wrote:here's some interesting brigade and other flags that might be more appropriate.
http://txscv.tripod.com/csa.htm

Hmm, I guess the confederacy did win in the EU (6th flag from the top)

This is a awesome idea, I havent seen anything like it before..almost makes me wanna do a themed guard army...oh well

dont worry about the confederate flag, your in the UK, and most people in the states wont give you trouble about it, as most gamers are intelligent enough to realize the WoNA wasnt about slavery

The Emperor shall rise again!

Mordian, I think you've executed this army pretty well, I especially like the Rough Riders with the hats, very stylish and historically-accurate. My only critique is that it seems that you put your paint on pretty thick, which makes you lose crispness in your details, though that may just be the way the photos were taken.

MDizzle wrote:Yuk a team of racists Booo to the stars and bars. Why would any of those flags be more appropriate? They all stand for the same bigotry and hatred. Maybe for you next army you will do a klan army wont that be fun.

I hate to be rude, but I feel the need to point out how short-sighted and idiotic this statement is (unless, of course, it's meant to be sarcastic, but I don't get that feeling). Let's list some other fascist military forces/political powers/cultures that "stood for bigotry and hatred" by raiding other societies and taking/keeping slaves: Romans, Vikings, Mongols, Egyptians, Aztecs... I could go on. Surely 40k has no place for armies inspired by any of those deplorable cultures... except for the Ultramarines, Space Wolves, White Scars, Thousand Sons, Rainbow Warriors... so yeah. In more modern times, the Soviet Union caused massive amounts of death among their own people under tyrannical rulership, and yet you can still use a guy called Colonel Chenkov and Commissars in Russian-style hats to execute your own troops. These are all canon forces in 40k, and yet nobody makes any assumptions about their players based on where they got the visual inspiration for their uniforms. Assuming someone is a racist or making a bigoted statement for having Confederacy-inspired uniforms on his Guard is just as foolish as assuming he worships Jupiter because he plays Ultramarines. Sometimes you just enjoy the visual style of a culture and that's all it means.

I hope MDizzle isn't making assumptions about a broad group of people based on a single aspect of that group, because that would be bigotry! Oh, the irony. In my experience, it's usually the case that the people who perceive racism most often are themselves racist in some way. I think the majority of society has really grown past such petty concerns.

/

^ Wow, couldn't have said it better myself!

There is a little bit of separation between Egyptians or Romans and The Southern Cross in terms of present day associations.

Regardless of what the Confederate flag actually stood for in history it is commonly used by racist rednecks as a symbol of identification. All the guys driving around with it on their pickup trucks in my rural, conservative and slightly racist/homophobic home town aren't history buffs, they are displaying for another purpose...

Likewise we all know the origins of the symbol that Hitler co-opted but that doesn't change the fact that it has a modern association and intended meaning when used by racists, Neo-natzis, and so forth.

That being said paint your models how you want, they are yours after all, but don't be surprised when you meet people that have an emotional reaction to you using such symbology.

Would I be welcome in all of England with an IRA themed IG army?

CT GAMER wrote:Would I be welcome in all of England with an IRA themed IG army?

Not really a fair comparison... that's not so much comparable to a CSA themed IG army as it is to a Taliban-themed IG army in the US, or a Hamas-themed IG army in Israel.

SaintHazard wrote:You may want to be careful with such phrases as, "there is nothing much more American than the Confederates." A lot of people from the North will vehemently disagree with you.

I'm one of them. Its kind of like saying there isn't anything more German than Nazis, or there isn't anything more English than suppressing less developed societies and robbing them of their natural resources. I'm not personally offended by the comment, I just don't understand it. It's less than five years of our history with only 1/3 of our people, there are a lot of things a lot more American than Confederates.

SaintHazard wrote:But anyway, very nice concept, and I don't see anything remotely racist about it (which isn't what the Confederacy stood for anyway)

You're abosolutely right. It stood for state's rights; to be racist and keep blacks as slaves.

Back on topic, I don't have a problem with the army, but if you had it over here the default assumption would be you have some sort of affinity/sympathy for the CSA which generally equals racist hick. Maybe its not right, but that's the way it is.

Down, boy. Listen to your signature.

Actually slavery was only one of a myriad of issues the CSA was addressing when it was formed. A lot of people looooove to tout the fact that the South still had slaves, but guess what? So did the North.

It doesn't help that the South was around 95% farmland and plantations, and its entire economy would have collapsed without farm workers, but lo and behold, they found a better way than slavery.

A few corrupt Southern beaurocrats does not a nationwide political agenda make.

I don't see anything wrong with the army. It's a cool idea. I mean I'm building an actual confederate army right now for a Blackpowder game. I don't see much of a difference if Mordian gives them all Las weapons and calls them guard.

I mean a sci fi army with a southern US theme isn't an alien concept. Hell just play the new Starcraft.