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So here's an army that I think would have a whale of a time with the Razorback Spam lists that are out there.

HQ
Librarian w/Null Zone, Machine Curse, Terminator Armour with Combi-Melta

Elites
Dreadnought
w/Extra Armour, Assault Cannon
Drop Pod

Dreadnought
w/Extra Armour, Assault Cannon
Drop Pod

Dreadnought
w/Extra Armour, Assault Cannon
Drop Pod

Troops
Tactical Squad
w/Combi-Melta, Plasma Cannon
Drop Pod

Tactical Squad
w/Combi-Melta, Plasma Cannon
Drop Pod

Heavy Support
Land Raider Phobos
w/Multi-Melta

Land Raider Phobos
w/Multi-Melta

Land Raider Phobos
w/Multi-Melta

Total: 1850

The Librarian stays in reserve with the Tactical Squads, while the Dreadnoughts hit the board in the first wave. If the Razorback spam decides to play reserves, they pop smoke and run. The Land Raiders can engage two targets at will, particularly if they're grinding 6" forwards, with Multi-Meltas in case the enemy isn't packing small metal boxes, in which case those Godhammer Lascannons are going to have a field day with Rhino armour. There's a 0.39 kill rate expected if both Lascannons fire every turn. By comparison, each enemy Lascannon is going to face a 0.04 kill rate. That means the Land Raiders can kill Razorbacks 9x faster than they can be killed, which is good because there may be up to 15 enemy Razorbacks/Rhinos/Predators on the field. If each of those tanks has a Lascannon and fires it at a Land Raider, there's a 0.56 rate of a Land Raider being destroyed. Which is why there's a group of Dreadnoughts with Assault Cannons landing in the enemy's deployment zone to provide more Rhino-chassis cracking power and something to splatter the squishies within.

Once a royal mess has been made, the Librarian and the Tactical land, salvage the situation, and then either hold the objectives or hunt down whatever is left of the enemy. Thoughts?

It looks like a lot of fun. Assuming you manage to pop two Razors in turn one, I guess my biggest concern, playing that army, is the other 4 (or however many) zooming up the board, disgorging 4 squads dead centre in front of my land raiders, and blowing them up with multi-meltas, chainfists, and melta bombs.

Having an army built strictly for anti-tank is great, because my fondest memories and best games have been infantry based battles where whoever spends the most $$ on mech isn't the a priori favorite to win (am I showing my age?) and there's nothing wrong with blowing away the opponent's mech. But you need troops on foot to capture objectives and I don't know if a librarian and a few tacs can seal the deal when there's 6 razorbacks full of infantry centrally located, ready to rapid fire me.

But take what I say with a hearty grain of salt...I'm getting back in after a long hiatus and still haven't digested the new rulebook.

I like to think it's not strictly built to crack armour. Anyone can build a rock to another army's scissors, the notion here is that it stands a decent chance at murdering infantry as well. That's why the Dreadnoughts have Heavy Flamers, and the infantry have Plasma Cannons (and Flamethrowers, I should have written that out). After all, there's no point in cracking open transports if you can't clean up the goons inside.

Try comba squading in objective games, have the plasma cannons deploy, or even just throw the 5 marines in a raider to have 5 marines that dont apprecciate death and a raider that can capture objectives. It's not bad, but too gimicky to bring to a tournament I'd say. Don't forget mech guard still exist and they are much meaner to this than space puppies.

Well, the point is to break razor spam, mech guard is something else entirely...

This list is really intriguing. I haven't seen anything quite like it on the internet or at my FLGS. To be honest I don't have a lot of problems against Razorback spam with either my Salamanders or Wolves but this looks very powerful given the long range nature of those armies as opposed to the short range of my melta heavy Salamanders or ML heavy Wolves. Las Cannons are definitely under-appreciated, that goes doubly so for the old God-Hammer.

Ya, the Phobos is a lot better then people give it credit.

How come now special weaps on the Tacticals?

Because I made the curious decision that people would assume it would be a Flamethrower if I didn't include it because the Flamethrower is free. In retrospect it was a stupid omission.

lol glad you said that before me

Why bother? trying to break the razorback spam. Its not that hard to do. razorbacks are fragile. just take a couple of Rifleman dreads. Done deal.

This would not only wreck face for a Razorspam list but I think Mech Guard would be given a run for their money with having to deal with 6 Twin Linked Lascannon Shots coming out a turn...not including the Dreadnoughts coming down to spit death from assault cannons and the like.

I'm quite a fan of it in all honesty, rather original that leaves a bitter taste of Land Raider in my mouth...been a while since I could say that.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:This would not only wreck face for a Razorspam list but I think Mech Guard would be given a run for their money with having to deal with 6 Twin Linked Lascannon Shots coming out a turn...not including the Dreadnoughts coming down to spit death from assault cannons and the like.

I'm quite a fan of it in all honesty, rather original that leaves a bitter taste of Land Raider in my mouth...been a while since I could say that.

This reminds me of the time back when I joined in 4th edition, reading articles on how the cheesy lists included 3 wraithlords or land raiders. dedicated transport spam cheese back then was unheard of!

I dont understand whats so good/scary about this list.

"Oh, no's!! Marines in drop pods, what will I do!!??"

This list is nothing special...and isnt especially scary to Razorback lists, or really any 1850pt well made list for that matter.

Deadshane1 wrote:I dont understand whats so good/scary about this list.

"Oh, no's!! Marines in drop pods, what will I do!!??"

This list is nothing special...and isnt especially scary to Razorback lists, or really any 1850pt well made list for that matter.

My sediment exactly. You've taken 3 overpriced landraiders. Dreads that are not riflemen, and poding tac squads. My BA razorspam and my mech guard would not have any problems with that list.

I don't get the hate for the phobos. The only thing I don't like is the HB and even that can be useful.

Your razorbacks will not think those lascannons are overpriced where there are 6 of them shooting at you.

You know what's funnier than marines drop podding in to try and kill Razorspam?

A 60pt Techmarine deep striking with DoA and meltagunning a Phobos.

Awwwww.

yes, those Land raiders are overpriced. Auto-laz preds do the SAME THING at almost 1/2 the cost. Also, av14 is overrated. Meltaguns will kill it just the same.

The list is gimmicky and in-efficient. It will do well against players who net list their armies and don't understand how to play tactically sound 40k. But anyone who does know what they are doing will have no problems against this army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
wait, whats a PhoBos? Is that not the land raider with 2 twin-linked laz and a heavybolter? In this case upgraded to a multi-melta.

WTF take rifleman dreads when an assault cannon is more effective at killing a rhino than a autocannon is and the dreads can do something in close.

With that in mind, I propose(keeping to codex space marines):

MoTF, 100 pts.

Scout squad, sniper rifles and missile launcher w/cloaks(why not?) - 135 MoTF bolstered bodyguard.
Tactical squad, rhino w/HK missile, missile launcher and flamer - 215
Tactical squad, rhino w/HK missile, missile launcher and flamer - 215

3x Dreadnought, dual TLAC

2x Land Speeder Typhoon w/HB
2x Land Speeder Typhoon w/HB
1x Land Speeder Typhoon w/HB

3x Predator, lascannon sponsons

-1850

15 S8 AP3 shots first turn, 6 S9 AP2, 6 S7 AP4, 12 S7 AP4 twin-linked, and 15 S5 shots. Also not totally useless vs lists that aren't razorspam.
You could also do really sick things with 3x3 typhoons, but they're a little fragile. To make this list capable of more easily handling AV14, merely replace two typhoons with 3x MM speeders.

i think it would work well



Automatically Appended Next Post:
both the original and the second

ChocolateGork wrote:WTF take rifleman dreads when an assault cannon is more effective at killing a rhino than a autocannon is and the dreads can do something in close.

WTF get close to begin with?

Rifleman dreads are better. Double the range, pens on 5 or 6 rather than 6 only. (albeit AP!, the only advantage of Assault cannon dreads)

Assault dreads > Rifleman dreads...that was good for a chuckle.

The list isn't specialized for Razorback spam, as mentioned. The Assault Cannon and Dreadnought Close Combat weapon can address AV14, unlike Twin-Linked Autocannons. More to the point it's a good configuration for sweeping up the Marines that come tumbling out of those Razorbacks: The Dreadnought shoots the disembarked unit and charges it, should destroy a 5-6 man unit in two assault phases.

Likewise if there's any fear of Melta weapons being deployed by Deep Strike, the Land Raiders can be put in reserve.

3 Ac/Las Predator 360pts
3 rifleman dreads 375pts
2 10 man Tactical Squads with Fist, Melta, Multimelta in Rhazorback with Tl Las. 540pts
1275 pts total. Still plenty of room for an HQ and some other goodies. 575pts to be complete.

12 Tl AC shots per turn with double the range and almost 1 % greater chance of causing a roll on the damage chart each. Double the range or the ass. cannon, why bother getting up close.
two more las cannon shots per turn, though 6 are not Tl.
6 Ac shots per turn instead of 9 HB shots, but since we are trying to kill AV 11 and we dont JUST want to use harsh language the AC has better range and higher str.
, one less multimelta and 2 less flamers. Hmmm lets correct that.
Bike captain with thunder hammer 165 pts
8 bikes + attack bike w/ Mulitmelta, Fist, 2 Flamers 300pts
and still 110 pts to play with. we have more powerfists, more troops that are more mobile, faster and harder hitting.

Deadshane1 wrote:You know what's funnier than marines drop podding in to try and kill Razorspam?

A 60pt Techmarine deep striking with DoA and meltagunning a Phobos.

Awwwww.

Is there some reason why that couldn't be done to any other type of Land Raider?

OT: That's an interesting list. I think it could work.

Why not take it out for a spin and give us a few Battle Reports?

Deadshane1 wrote:I dont understand whats so good/scary about this list.

"Oh, no's!! Marines in drop pods, what will I do!!??"

This list is nothing special...and isnt especially scary to Razorback lists, or really any 1850pt well made list for that matter.

You do like putting people down don't you? Do you get good kicks out it?

Jabbdo wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:I dont understand whats so good/scary about this list.

"Oh, no's!! Marines in drop pods, what will I do!!??"

This list is nothing special...and isnt especially scary to Razorback lists, or really any 1850pt well made list for that matter.

You do like putting people down don't you? Do you get good kicks out it?

You do like attempting to start internet drama don't you? Do you get good kicks out of it?

I don't understand what harm is caused by stating your thoughts about someones list. Try not to get your feeling's hurt next time...the OP obviously didnt.

Deadshane1 wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:I dont understand whats so good/scary about this list.

"Oh, no's!! Marines in drop pods, what will I do!!??"

This list is nothing special...and isnt especially scary to Razorback lists, or really any 1850pt well made list for that matter.

You do like putting people down don't you? Do you get good kicks out it?

You do like attempting to start internet drama don't you? Do you get good kicks out of it?

I don't understand what harm is caused by stating your thoughts about someones list. Try not to get your feeling's hurt next time...the OP obviously didnt.

touchè


You could give some sort of constructive critisism instead of just passing a list off as crap, although if you just can't be arsed or feel you are too high and mighty to do so, I suppose you dont have to.

Jabbdo wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:I dont understand whats so good/scary about this list.

"Oh, no's!! Marines in drop pods, what will I do!!??"

This list is nothing special...and isnt especially scary to Razorback lists, or really any 1850pt well made list for that matter.

You do like putting people down don't you? Do you get good kicks out it?

You do like attempting to start internet drama don't you? Do you get good kicks out of it?

I don't understand what harm is caused by stating your thoughts about someones list. Try not to get your feeling's hurt next time...the OP obviously didnt.

touchè


You could give some sort of constructive critisism instead of just passing a list off as crap, although if you just can't be arsed or feel you are too high and mighty to do so, I suppose you dont have to.

I'm to high and mighty.

damn.

not much I can say to that.

checkmate