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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Really? You're afraid of M1 Garands? Only Nazis should be afraid of Pappy Garand. Awesome Spider would not be afraid of a Garand.



Obama Administration Reverses Course, Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles
By Maxim Lott

Published September 01, 2010 | FoxNews.com

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The South Korean government, in an effort to raise money for its military, wants to sell nearly a million antique M1 rifles that were used by U.S. soldiers in the Korean War to gun collectors in America.

The Obama administration approved the sale of the American-made rifles last year. But it reversed course and banned the sale in March – a decision that went largely unnoticed at the time but that is now sparking opposition from gun rights advocates.

A State Department spokesman said the administration's decision was based on concerns that the guns could fall into the wrong hands.

"The transfer of such a large number of weapons -- 87,310 M1 Garands and 770,160 M1 Carbines -- could potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes," the spokesman told FoxNews.com.

"We are working closely with our Korean allies and the U.S. Army in exploring alternative options to dispose of these firearms."

Gun control advocates praised the Obama administration for taking security seriously.

"Guns that can take high-capacity magazines are a threat to public safety," said Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Even though they are old, these guns could deliver a great amount of firepower. So I think the Obama administration's concerns are well-taken."

But gun rights advocates point out that possessing M1 rifles is legal in the United States -- M1s are semi-automatics, not machine guns, meaning the trigger has to be pulled every time a shot is fired -- and anyone who would buy a gun from South Korea would have to go through the standard background check.

"Any guns that retail in the United States, of course, including these, can only be sold to someone who passes the National Instant Check System," said David Kopel, research director at the conservative Independence Institute. "There is no greater risk from these particular guns than there is from any other guns sold in the United States."

M1 rifles can hold high-capacity ammunition clips that allow dozens of rounds to be fired before re-loading, but Chris Cox, chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, noted that is true about any gun in which an ammunition magazine can be inserted -- including most semi-automatics.

"Anything that accepts an external magazine could accept a larger capacity magazine," Cox said.

"But the average number of rounds fired in the commission of a crime is somewhere between 1 and 2 … this issue just shows how little the administration understands about guns."

He called the administration's decision "a de facto gun ban, courtesy of Hillary Clinton's State Department."

Asked why the M1s pose a threat, the State Department spokesman referred questions to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. ATF representatives said they would look into the question Monday afternoon, but on Wednesday they referred questions to the Justice Department. DOJ spokesman Dean Boyd referred questions back to the State Department.

According to the ATF Guidebook on Firearms Importation, it would normally be legal to import the M1s because they are more than 50 years old, meaning they qualify as "curios or relics." But because the guns were given to South Korea by the U.S. government, they fall under a special category that requires permission from the State Department before any sale.

Kopel said that he hopes the State Department spokesman's statement that it is working to "dispose" of the guns does not mean they want to melt them down.

"It seems to have this implication of destruction, which would be tremendously wasteful," he said. "These are guns that should be in the hands of American citizens for marksmanship and safety training."

Asked whether melting the guns down would be a good option, Henigan said: "Why let them into the country in the first place? If there is a legally sufficient way to keep them out, we think it's perfectly reasonable to do so."

Past administrations have also grappled with the issue of large-scale gun imports.

The Clinton administration blocked sales of M1s and other antiquated military weapons from the Philippines, Turkey and Pakistan. It also ended the practice of reselling used guns owned by federal agencies, ordering that they be melted down instead.

In contrast, 200,000 M1 rifles from South Korea were allowed to be sold in the U.S. under the Reagan administration in 1987.

A decision like that would be better for everyone, Cox said.

"M1s are used for target practice. For history buffs, they're highly collectible. We're going to continue to make sure that this backdoor effort that infringes not only on lawful commerce but on the Second Amendment is rectified."

Henigan disagrees.

"They clearly were used as military guns, and the fact that they likely can take high-capacity magazines makes them a special safety concern," he said.

The White House referred questions on the issue to the Pentagon, which referred questions to the U.S. Embassy in South Korea, which deferred back to the State Department.


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Clint Eastwood looks really hot in that picture.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Nurglitch wrote:Clint Eastwood looks really hot in that picture.


Thats fine. Just STAY OFF HIS LAWN!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yet if I wander onto his lawn, he might show me his firearm, iffen you catch my drift.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

He's probably standing in desert, of course he's hot.

Also, I'm not really seeing any decent arguments from the state department on this one. It mostly sounds like some personal issue with their possession.

Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Well its supposed to be LA. Its usually cool at night. Nurgly you'll have to wait until daylight for your bicep fix

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Eternal Plague

If they can limit sales of the weapons over say, a ten year period, perhaps the influx won't be useable for "illicit purposes."

Since we all know Americans always shoot the bad guys, I have no idea what the problem could be if these guns are sold to Americans.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






The land of cotton.

Orkeosaurus wrote:I'm not really seeing any decent arguments from the state department on this one. It mostly sounds like some personal issue with their possession.


Now now... you're not seriously suggesting that the Obama administration would put it's agenda ahead of the rights of law abiding citizens? /sarcasm
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight



Buffalo NY, USA

The only issue the article points out is the quantity of guns sold back to us at once. So instead we have to wait a little longer for our 'friends' from the good old Eastern Block to aquire them at a lower price and ship them in for private legal sale for which they will only charge us (private citizens and collectors) a nominal fee and our first born. Way to go Obama, you're really teaching us about ethics.

Wouldn't a better solution be this?

S. Korea: "Hey USA, we want to sell those guns you gave us to enforce your political intentions for which in all intents and purposes we failed to do, and needed you to bail us out anyway."

US Government: "Sure just tell us who you sold them to, provide recipts and because we can we're going to charge you some rediculous fee."

S. Korea: "Ok." (Time Passes) "Hey USA, some company called Evil Cult of Anarchists LLC bought up almost all of those guns. They wanted them delivered to some ranch in the middle-of-no-where Utah."

US G: "Um, just hold that thought for a sec ok?"

ComputerGeek01 is more then just a name 
   
Made in us
RogueSangre






Infuriating. I'd like to say more, but such a rant would cause the internet to implode upon istelf, and probably get me banned. Suffice to say, I'm leaning to the right on this one.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Everywhere I'm not supposed to be.

As a military firearm collector, this displeases me... Oh well, most of the carbines and Garands that were sold to S. Korea were altered and retro-fitted and are no longer original.

If you need me, I'll be busy wiping the layers of dust off my dice. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Eternal Plague

CrashUSAR wrote:As a military firearm collector, this displeases me... Oh well, most of the carbines and Garands that were sold to S. Korea were altered and retro-fitted and are no longer original.


Would any of them still be considered collectors items given the history of the war and the use most of them had in a conflict of such significance?

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Everywhere I'm not supposed to be.

Maybe, but you're gettin into a specific collection there. I hate to say it...but...these may have to go to Bubba... I'm sure there are some that are still worth somethin, but those are probably gonna be far and few between. All speculation based on other Garands and carbines I've seen come out of South Korea though.

If you need me, I'll be busy wiping the layers of dust off my dice. 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

What modifications were done to the Garands+carbines that South Korea has?

That may be why they changed their minds about the sale...
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





Garands don't accept external magazines. Few things annoy me more than the gun control morons who give some technical reason for their stance, and it's in complete ignorance of the fact.

"Dozens of rounds!"

Yeah. Or 8. Either way, a number, certainly.

Not to mention it's already fully legal to buy these weapons, so there's no legal basis.



=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
DA:70+S++G+++M+++B++I++Pw40k00#+D++A++++/wWD250T(T)DM++
======End Dakka Geek Code======

http://jackhammer40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Garands don't, but M1 Carbines did.
   
Made in au
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer



The Ministry of Love: Room 101

Yeah but guys they use BULLETS (plural!!1!!!!)and I heard somewhere the BULLETS can hurt people!!!

/stupid

Honestly it doesnt look like they have a leg to stand on, the gun fall under legal categories, and you guys have your fancy Second Amendment; If they were serious about stopping firearm related crimes they should focus on pistols anyway imo.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Pistols are actually pretty heavily regulated.

The problem is criminals don't really care about things like "laws".
   
Made in au
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer



The Ministry of Love: Room 101

I was more referring to the availablility of pistols, sure "Crime Lord Joe" is going to have his suppliers, but "Johnny who robbed the Quik-E-Mart"'s pistol probably originally came from a gunstore, and was purchased legally.

That said, I know very little about the process of buying firearms in America, and not much more here; So I may be way off
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Well, I know that I feel safe knowing that there is now no way anybody can get a rifle or carbine for illicit purposes.

I'm going to revel in my right as an American to simply assume that this is government banning guns solely out of fear of an armed populace. The only real threat these guns have is to status quo.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





Garands don't, but M1 Carbines did.


It's true, and yet, I own one. With... Hold onto something sturdy... A BAYONET LUG!

ARRRRGH! WE'RE ALL DYING!

Also noteworthy: the magazines are 15 rounds. (And yes, I know they sell 30 rounders).

Further: I went to buy an M1 Carbine when I found out they had been made by IBM. The store HAD ONE, but it was on layaway, so I just got a random one they had. Heartbreaking.



=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
DA:70+S++G+++M+++B++I++Pw40k00#+D++A++++/wWD250T(T)DM++
======End Dakka Geek Code======

http://jackhammer40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in kg
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

M1 rifles can hold high-capacity ammunition clips that allow dozens of rounds to be fired before re-loading, but Chris Cox, chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, noted that is true about any gun in which an ammunition magazine can be inserted -- including most semi-automatics.


My AR-10 can hold 2.5 dozen rounds of high powered ammunition. I bought that legally.

Asked why the M1s pose a threat, the State Department spokesman referred questions to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. ATF representatives said they would look into the question Monday afternoon, but on Wednesday they referred questions to the Justice Department. DOJ spokesman Dean Boyd referred questions back to the State Department.


Err... ummm... err... ummm...



Two more years. *sighs*

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Everywhere I'm not supposed to be.

Kanluwen wrote:What modifications were done to the Garands+carbines that South Korea has?

That may be why they changed their minds about the sale...


On the carbines, they were retrofitted with new sights for the era, which isn't that big of a deal, but still irks me. The big deal are the markings etched into both sides of the butt.

Phryxis wrote:It's true, and yet, I own one. With... Hold onto something sturdy... A BAYONET LUG!


My '03 Springfield has one of those Now if only I could find an original 16" bayonet...

If you need me, I'll be busy wiping the layers of dust off my dice. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





New Jersey, USA

You can still buy surplused Garands through the Civilian Marksmenship Program, I dont see what the problem is. We already find huge, forgotten stockpiles of weapons every day.


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Its stupid. They should just sell them to the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program-you know the US Government Entity that shhh sells the same thing...). CMP can resell as official Korean war vintage versions.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Eternal Plague

Frazzled wrote:Its stupid. They should just sell them to the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program-you know the US Government Entity that shhh sells the same thing...). CMP can resell as official Korean war vintage versions.


And somehow 20,000 will mysteriously go to the "Weiner Liberation Army" and 1 month later we'll have little hot dogs with guns strapped to their backs shooting out the knee caps of unsuspecting humans.

In that context, good call Obama.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Everywhere I'm not supposed to be.

Ahhh... The CMP, god's gift to people like me

If you need me, I'll be busy wiping the layers of dust off my dice. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

WarOne wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Its stupid. They should just sell them to the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program-you know the US Government Entity that shhh sells the same thing...). CMP can resell as official Korean war vintage versions.


And somehow 20,000 will mysteriously go to the "Weiner Liberation Army" and 1 month later we'll have little hot dogs with guns strapped to their backs shooting out the knee caps of unsuspecting humans.

In that context, good call Obama.

I am shocked, just shocked you would think such a thing.


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Yeah, because we all know that when gangbangers go looking for a gun the one that tops their list is a WWII vintage semi-auto carbine.


mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
 
   
Made in ca
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot





Come on guys have a bit more faith in your government. I'm sure they had a good reason, like getting a broad and generalized report that says something like "A few people with a gun, which is very difficult to conceal on said person, do bad things sometimes." Alarms are already going off in my mind.

Seriously though, the only thing that really stands out as a potential concern is if there would be enough interest to sell all the rifles and what to do if they can't sell them all. Not really that big of an issue imo.

nosferatu1001 wrote:That guy got *really* instantly killed.
 
   
 
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