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Hello. I am new to the forum and farly new to warhammer 40K.

I used to play it back in 2nd edition, but now I am back witha vengance. I have a SW army and a 'Nid army. However I have stumbeled upon a problem: Transports and tanks.

I started out with a genestealer list but I am now weighting towards a more MC heavy list. But I get my day ruined by transports and tanks every day.

Last list I met was:

2 preds with laser side sponsors
2 double twin linked autocanon
3 combat squads with 2 lasor canons and 1 rocket launcher, rest was in razorbacks (1 with twin linked laser, 1 with twin linked ausoult cannon 1 with bolters)
3 of the little speeders with rockets and assoult cannons
1 psyker as a leader

What is a tyrnaid to do? I was getting shot to bits. The game ended in a draw.

I need options on what to do against this, and I am asking you.

As far as I can se my lists needs to be an all poding list, have heavy with MC's (like the new tyranofex) backed up by hive guards and zoanthropes, or just warriorspam with venom canon backed up by hive guards and zoanthropes.

Any sugestions. He is my regular oponent and I think he will be gearing more towards a SW razor spam list from now on.

Sorry for bad spelling but I am a dyslectian. The game was 1750, do you ahve any good sugestions for how to deal with that sort of dakka as a tyrnaid.

Happy regards Niiai.

2 x 3 Hive guard, 3 x zoanthrope and 2 rupture fexes have been my bread and butter for a while now. I also use 3 x tervigons. Season with an hq and fill the rest of the points to your playstyle. It works very well for me.

Fight as a Tyranid would fight...throw more and more bodies at your opponent until they are drowning in your corpses. I often find the answer to most any nid problem is take more gants/gaunts.

I have to say its all about the Zoanthroapes. Those S10 AP1 Lances are about the best chance a nid has to pop tanks from any distance. Pod them in as many as you can and call it Christmas. The Tyrannofex has a few options for long range shooting but I am recalling they get a -1 on the damage chart? Don't remember off hand, I usually play against tyranids, and it's podding in zoanthropes that bother me and my armor. Oh and mysetic spores ripper tentacles, use those drop pod rules to your advantage, hit rear armor on a tank with those S6 ripper tentacles.

Gargoyles -> can shred more than people thing if they get in close combat on the charge, not vehicles, but can be great for their points cost, leaving more points for vehicle smashing units.

a winged Hive Tyrant with 2 sets of talons can be pretty mean too, rerolling all misses with lots of attacks means you'll get some 6's

Trygon primes can be nice to pop out of nowhere and put 12 S6 shots on rear armor, I prefer these to the more expensive tyrannofex's. shorter ranged and more vulnerable but attract more backline fire and buy the main force more time to close in.

remember with the right HQ option you can outflank a troop choice, have a tervigon outflank, poop babies, and then mass assault something.

really hive guard and zoans are your only "good" choice though.

As a marine player who regularly has to go up against my friend's nids I will say hive guard are the scariest AT in his arsenal. Zoanthropes looks good on paper, but they have to close to 18" and then pass a psychic test and then overcome my psychic hood, and then actually hit (you wouldn't believe how many times they miss).

Whereas, hive guard can camp behind LOS-blocking cover and take potshots from turn 1 at 24" range.

Second place goes to fleet MCs like the Trygon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and also the hive guard ignore cover 99% of the time, so you negate the use of vehicles to screen other vehicles.

14 armor should be your only pain. CC going against rear armor can work too. It the marines want to stay in their sardine cans, let them. If you dislike the shooty options, the MCs are your only good bet on the monoliths and landraiders. 10 armor is not going to like rending S4 or 5 attacks and warriors and genestealers can deliver thos in numbers.

Yesterday I fought a relatively Meched Gaurd Army, and got the following results:

Trygon Prime (MR T): Leman Russ Squadron and Gryphon Mortar Tank.

Trygon Prime (Murdoc): Leman Russ Punisher

Hive Gaurd: Hellhound, 1 Chimera, and a Chimera Wrecked in all but name.

Zoanthropes: Zip.

One thing I find relly effective is to deepstike the Trygons where they cut off the enemies escape route.

DAaddict wrote:14 armor should be your only pain. CC going against rear armor can work too. It the marines want to stay in their sardine cans, let them. If you dislike the shooty options, the MCs are your only good bet on the monoliths and landraiders. 10 armor is not going to like rending S4 or 5 attacks and warriors and genestealers can deliver thos in numbers.

using soft units to pop a transport is usually not a good idea unless playing KP and/or you can surround the disembark points, the bugs will open the (cheap) transport and then get mowed down by bolter fire. not as much as an issue for gaunts as it is for genestealers.

Thanks for all the viuevpoints.

The Tyranid codex is full of cool stuff and they are dreaking aliens man. However while I am up against a heavy mech list a lott of my units just dont have anything they should be doing. As long as I can't scratch that AP 10 (and not all units can) the game is just alla bout shooting tanks and then you end up with something that is not very tyranidisj (at leats not 4th edition.)

Perhaps I am going about this all wrong, but it seems that you need your list chock full with tyrant guard and zoanthropes, witch is a pitty since ygmar genestealers, venethropes, lictors and pyrovores are all very cool.

In 4th edition you could at leats take so many MC's that they had trouble shooting it all down, but now it is a challenge just to survive.

Have any of you had any luck pooping tanks with venom canons (warriors and shrieks) or the heavy venom canon (hive tyrant and harpy) I can se the harpy as good ariving from reserve round 2-3 in a dakka list -if- you have blown up all his good long range after he arives. (Harpy can deep strike after the FAQ.) What do you think?

Niiai wrote:Perhaps I am going about this all wrong, but it seems that you need your list chock full with tyrant guard and zoanthropes

In 4th edition you could at leats take so many MC's that they had trouble shooting it all down, but now it is a challenge just to survive.

Have any of you had any luck pooping tanks with venom canons (warriors and shrieks) or the heavy venom canon (hive tyrant and harpy) I can se the harpy as good ariving from reserve round 2-3 in a dakka list -if- you have blown up all his good long range after he arives. (Harpy can deep strike after the FAQ.) What do you think?

Assuming you mean Hive Guard...?

You can still take enough MCs for AT...combined with Tyrants, Venomthropes, and Tervigons, MCs have a whole new range of abilities.

The Venom Cannon is not a reliable AT weapon and I only buy it for its mediocre usage and being able to wound allocate on mutiple wound models.

Heavy Venom Cannons work well...the -1 on the damage table is perfect for tyranids. It's even better on the Harpy...but seeing as the Harpy is a more yulnerable fire base...I don't find its worth taking one unless you take two. Tyrannofexes have the ultimate long range AT weapon but are more of a structure for an anti troop MC...When onslaughting a rupture canon he can be quite useful. Deepstriking a Harpy will only get it killed much faster...whereas two sliding up the sides of the board can effectively get all kinds of side armor.

One of the guys who plays in our store never has problems with the local mech lists, and we've got some very solid players in Portland.

He basically runs Tyrants with guards, Tyranid Primes, Tervigons, termagants, one unit of venomthropes, *two units of hive guard*, a unit of devourer carnifexes, and trygons.

DevFexes are mean...in a good way.

Two of them put out 24 re-rollable str 6 shots... that's really just amazing.

I took 9 of them and wrecked face on a leafblower list.

I've been running One unit of 3 hive guard, one unit of 3 Zoeys. A trygon prime or 3 screamer Killer CArnifexes and 2 rupture cannon tryranofexes. These are screened the best I can by a unit of venomthropes. With this group coming towards the battle line, with outflanking warriors (hive tyrant ability) and genestealers and clouds of gaunts and gants swarming the battle line has to stay mobile or mech gets eaten.

And what point-value is that?

I love how when the OP tells us he played a 1750 point game and asks for advice, and some people talks about lists for 2500 points.

'Ard Boyz this ain't, boys.

Thanks for some of the ideas, but these forums are spray and pray.

I haven gotten sugestions from fielding 9 carnifexes in a 1750 game, to charging an all mech army with loads of hormogaunts and termagants. With advice like these it is just kind of hard to haver good faight in the stock.

But it seems to me that hive guards dakka guns are a must. I'll gues I will go for those and the zoanthropes and a tyranifex next time.

One last thing: Have anybody had any luck with the harpy? In a shooting army it would look realy sweet coming in on the second or third turn after moast of the mech has been shot at. I am just not shure weazther it should be twin linked heavy wenom canon or the barbed strangler. I gues that depends on me having enough anti tank else where.

Anyway: What is your experience with harpyes?

If you do Harpies...I suggest two...I just think they work better that way.

Each climbing it's way up the side of the board so side armor is guarunteed.

I find if I'm taking Zoanthroapes, I'm taking Primes for them, as there really is a lot more S8 in a given army than there is S10. Having the ability to buffer against enemy Raiders/Long Fangs/Vendettas/mass Hunter-Killers/etc does help stretch the Zoanthroape dollar. Another problem with Deepstrike is that one knows that the Zoans will most likely be coming in on turn 2, so people like to *conveniently* pop smoke then. Likewise, Tervigons are a given to protect against the Bolter Cha-Cha (with or without Null Zone)

I normally find I'm using Harpies to support the Zoans, just because while Zoanthroapes are deadly, they are very short-ranged, and if they're your sole AT...well I'd hate to be you when fighting Eldar. And since the Panzees have less tanks than the average army, one can get by with shake-locking them until the rest of the horde is in place. Oddly enough, it makes all my AT toughness 5 so when I *am* facing S10, it forces some target priority (the Harpies'll be in cover, don't worry).

In general, I avoid Zoans though and go for more Hive Guard, Tyrannofexes, and either Dakka Tyrants or Dakkafexes depending on what else I want to cram into my FOC.

Primes with Zoans arent a bad idea...this is why I love the nid codex...so versatile.

Hive guard make my wallet cry

I hate finding threads like this late. By the time I get here all the good advice has already been given and I've got nothing new to contribute.
P.S. OP I'm assuming you ment Dyslexic. Speaking as a fellow Dyslexic I find a Pocket Dictionary and a little patiance can go a long way for you spelling skills.

Emperor of Mankind I also think the hive guards are exspensive so I am building my own out of raveners. They work like a charm, although they are still now quite finished.

Fox Lord I am 26 and I have found that a Pocket Dictionary does not go a long way for my spellings skills. However if you have good advice regarding the dealing with mech as a 'Nid player I would love to hear them. Preferablby on the context of this list at the point cost of 1750:

2 preds with laser side sponsors
2 double twin linked autocanon
3 combat squads with 2 lasor canons and 1 rocket launcher, rest was in razorbacks (1 with twin linked laser, 1 with twin linked ausoult cannon 1 with bolters)
3 of the little speeders with rockets and assoult cannons
1 psyker as a leader

As far as I can tell, of you do want an all comers list you need to dedicate Around 2/5ths of your list to anti tanks if not more. I brought 3 hive guards and 2 zoanthropes and a dakka fex out of a pod, but it all semed to little. The rest of my army could do very little as long as they where inside the tanks.

I should have had something like:
6 hiveguards
3 zoanthropes
1 Tyranofex
2 Harpies with twin heavy venom cannon

That would be around 1200 ish leaving me 550 to buy alfa warrior and some tyranid warriors (for synapse and tropp choises) and perhaps some gargoylse in a atempt to screen the tyranofex.

But tradisjonaly tyranids are about number and close combat, in 5th edition they need the range it seems.

1 or 2 Tyranofex with rupture cannons will go a long way against preadators and will most likely vaporize the Razorbacks. The Speeders are open-topped so the Venom Cannons will work well against them, they should also do well against the troops. A;so Barbed Straglers & Stranglethorn Cannons can be good Troop killers.
You need a 1750 list right give me a couple of hours, I'll see what I can whip up.

Thanks Fox Lord.

I will look into it myself and se what I come up with. Gime me a day, I am a bit bissy these days with a comic festival. The land speeder is not open topped so no venom cannon godes.

I know it seems like I am a building a list to take my friends list but I just want a good shot at coming out ahead in an all armoured matchup. The fact that he could pull of 6 las cannon shots (1 with re-roll), 7 rocket shots, 6 auto canon gaks (4 with re-roll) 3 heavy bolters (1 with re-roll) 1 assoult cannon (with re-roll) and 1 vindicator just seemed like bad news for the tyranofex, although a squad of gargoyles giving cover would go a long way towards that.

In the game he did not manadge to take out my tyrant guards witch I was very happy about (50 points, 2 wounds, T6 and they are not MC's <3 )

If he is shooting all that at the Tyrannofex then the rest of your army should be able to close to the enemy fairly easily. Due to the MC rules for cover I doubt you would be able to screen them with Gargoyles very easily and even for Nids taking a unit solely to screen another is a waste of time. If you are worried about them being shot at them stick them behind cover (or near a Venomthrope), with their long range they can happily sit in the backfield and shoot from cover (you won't get as much out of them like this but it keeps them safer). Realistically all that a Tyrannofex would worry about from all that shooting is the Lascannons, against everything else he has a 2+ save and its going to take some pretty hot rolling to hit and wound with all those Lascannons in any case. Fortunately long ranged AP1-2 shooting isn't that common atm, not many people take Lascannons, preferring Missile Launchers for their versatility and rely on short range melta to kill anything which the Missiles can't deal with.

Nids still are about numbers and close combat, despite the need to put in plenty of ranged anti tank firepower the Nid list still has to use assault so finish things off. The shooting is to stun, shake, weapon destroy and immobilise as much as it is to actually, destroy, you reduce the firepower coming back at you and once a vehicle is immobilised its a sitting duck in assault. Its far more helpful to destroy a vehicle with shooting than it is in asssault, you want to be able to get to the contents of transports after you destroy them (as you are generally better equipped to deal with infantry) which also keeps you safe from shooting. Assaulting a vehicle usually results in it ending up dead, but next turn you get shot to pieces.

Harpies are not a bad bet but are imo the weakest of the Nids ranged anti tank options. S10 doesn't show up that often but it really limits what they can achieve, they are still only S9 with negative damage modifiers. I would suggest you max out on Hive Guard and Tyrannofexes before taking a Harpy (or two, they need to be used in pairs really). I would definitely suggest you take a couple of Tervigons for your Troops though, they are far better than Warriors.

Btw the Zoans with a Prime idea that some people have suggested doesn't really work thanks to the Nid FAQ. Zoans on foot are still going to die quickly (as in before they actually kill anything important) even with the Prime to help out. This means they need to go in a Pod and by the FAQ I'm pretty sure the Prime isn't allowed to join them in the Pod (which makes no sense but there you go).

willydstyle wrote:Two of them put out 24 re-rollable str 6 shots... that's really just amazing.

Yeah, but that's just a spam-cannon. Str 6 AP - isn't really cutting it against a lot of vehicles from the slow moving Carnifex.

Get a Mawloc..if he makes a parking lot with his shooty tanks punish him by emerging beneath them...any vehicles touched by the large pie plate gets a s6 hit versus rear armor....

If you have first turn you can actually burrow the mawloc immediately, and it emerges automatically the next turn....repeat and rinse...mawlocs are also good to push units towards your outflanking/emerging units which can assault...

freddieyu1 wrote:Get a Mawloc..if he makes a parking lot with his shooty tanks punish him by emerging beneath them...any vehicles touched by the large pie plate gets a s6 hit versus rear armor....

If you have first turn you can actually burrow the mawloc immediately, and it emerges automatically the next turn....repeat and rinse...mawlocs are also good to push units towards your outflanking/emerging units which can assault...

I did have a mawlock in the game and I did what you sugested, but it scattered horibly of target. The closest tanks moved away from it and I ran after. Then he just drover towards me, jumped out of the tanks and melta'ed/lasered/charged it to death. By that points i did not realy have many units left, and I only had very little synapse. It is a good plan when it works but in a given game you only get around 2 shots with it witch I think is a bit to little for the cost. And yeah he is 6 wounds and T6 but he just does not pack a punch in close combat.

Perhaps if I took two of them, but I am not that impressed with there performance.

Some people sugest a trevigon instead of warriors, but it costs so mutch. And it rarly does anything. (But I know I am not using it right.) Moast of the time walks up the board casting feel no pain but he is always out of range for his shooting attacks. Warriors seems to give you more bodies and wounds for the point cost and can do something. Yes it spawns termigaunts but i have yet to get a good shoting out of them. (They just sit around being meched down.)