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Just starting a discussion in the correct forum for this. Wanted to know people's thoughts on the rules. I'm an old 7th edition player that got out of it. But the simplicity of these rules make me interested in playing large fantasy mass battles again.

Here's a copy and paste of my post in the News forum to start the discussion:

I gotta say, I used to play Fantasy, and also I've been watching 8th edition players.

These rules, to be frank, are highly derivative of the Warhammer Fantasy rules the designer created. But also go beyond them a bit by creating a nice streamlining to the game that I think he's been wanting to do to WFB for a while now.

That's a good thing. The rules are simple, clean, and I see a lot of opportunities for additional depth added via units and special army rules, instead of bloating the base rules. The while thing where you keep models on the table and just add damage tokens as you take losses helps keep the tabletop clean and speeds up play.

Of course, it doesn't have the same granularity as WFB, but sometimes that's a good thing.

By the way, anyone see any sort of charging speed bonus?

Didn't see any charging speed bonus
A tortoise sure could use one

Pretty much summed it up Vetrucio.
For me it will be a useful addition to the Stufy Group games as it will be a lot easier for the kids to pick up, and less hanging while consulting charts.

I don't see it as GW or KoW and the latter will make a good primer for more complex games as well as a lot of fun in its own right.


Is this what you were referring to or did you mean a modifier for melee?
• the distance between the base of the unit
Champion and the closest point of the target is
equal to or less than double your unit’s Speed.

I was just referring to movement speed.

Well, here's the thing, even if I were to have a giant army, I think I would still play these rules (well the full rules with a bit more depth when it comes to retail release), over the WHFB.

The game seems to scale better due to the streamlining, I could probably have short quick games with small armies, especially since my friend also has an old lizardman army he's wants to play 8th edition, but is turned off by its new focus on huge hordes.

Also, there were some complaints about how the designer was accenting bad things in these new rules, such as retaining the whole army goes turn structure and stuff. But it works now since the core combat structure of the game has been streamlined so a single player's turn goes by faster.

Must admit was kinda hoping there would be alternate turn sequencing. I can see that may get cumbersome with a large game?

I still might try that out see how it works vs the entire turn sequence. I like Anima tactics where each player alternately activates characters, but it is a skirmish game.

Also it might be interesting to see how it goes rolling for priority after both players have completed their turns.

hmm wanting to test the game out - will just have to be patient

Interesting what you say about the game scaling down well. I thought of KoW in terms of large horde armies being better suited to the rules when I watched the videos on BoW.
However, because of the set up with the kids and what we have been donated and have ourselves, I really hope you are correct as it would work really well for us.

Did a quick read through the rules. Very simple yet interesting.

Has anyone had a play yet please?

On the turn structure thing, it's intentional. They wanted a game where your turn was YOURS, and only you act in it. This way, you can use chess clocks for your game. So say you agree a 2 hour max limit for your game. You get an hour, he gets and hour. If you timewaste early on, you'll run low later on and have to rush. If you go too slow, you'll run out, automatic loss. I think it'll play fast.
I like the rules for the undead too, the "unit" based rules make regenerating units way less cumbersome and you don't need piles of extra models. I think I'll go with Undead when I build my army. I'm down in Essex, but if someone would like a game, I'd be willing to travel!

Have no idea how this army would really play out. 2000 (hmm I think I should start lower!) of Undead

Focusing on rezzing and stuff. Mhorgoth is essentially a tiny monster

300-Mhorgoth The Faceless
150-Liche King
290-Skeleton Horde: Banner, Musician, Spears, Undead Rats
170-Zombie Horde
170-Zombie Horde
170-Zombie Horde
175-Revenant Cavalry Regiment: Banner, Musician
175-Revenant Cavalry Regiment: Banner, Musician
100-Wraiths
70-Balefire Catapult
70-Balefire Catapult
70-Balefire Catapult
70-Balefire Catapult

1980

I'm diggin them even in the Beta stage. Have some games lined up for this week. Cobbled together lists using the Dwarfs and Elves for Orcs and Humans; since that's all I have figs for at the moment.

The rules feel a bit Meh to me. They seen dry and fairly bland, and there is not much difference between the armies.


_Tim?

They're interesting, but as Tim said, there's not much army variety. Seems like there's a huge benefit of running Hordes though, or, at least, bigger units.

And is it me, or are all the animals really, really powerful (The Dwarf Dogs in particular)

Cryonicleech wrote:They're interesting, but as Tim said, there's not much army variety. Seems like there's a huge benefit of running Hordes though, or, at least, bigger units.

And is it me, or are all the animals really, really powerful (The Dwarf Dogs in particular)

Hmm yea I was like "wait what?" when I read the dogs.

They can eat whole units if they're lucky

and if a skele horde ties you up with undead rats, they'll stay there for a while

In fact, Ronnie (The head Mantic guy or something, important person either way) was saying he wanted this to be tournament-playable, so I'm thinking of running a Dwarf army with tons and tons of Mastiffs...

I'll playtest Dwarfs V Elves soon, and I'll post up a report here.

Elven Sabretooth pussy. Wha-what???

warpcrafter wrote:Elven Sabretooth pussy. Wha-what???

QFT

No wonder Elves rarely mate... ba dum tssh!

I made lists based on the figs I have for Orc and Human armies. Just used units from the Dwarf and Elf lists; didn't change any stats or point-values so they should work just fine with the other beta lists:

http://www.mediafire.com/?v8pxm2wcgkbu58k

Many thanks Le grongard

I have a use for a handful of Bretts and Empire now that can be combined.
Need to to an itinery of what we have and will pop up the list.

Glad someone has a use for them. Thanks!

Cryonicleech wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:Elven Sabretooth pussy. Wha-what???

QFT

No wonder Elves rarely mate... ba dum tssh!

QFT x2

Couldn't they have just called it an Elven Sabertooth (insert feline name here)?

So... does anybody have enough KoW models to make an army? If so, do post some piccies.

Going to use GW for the now.

Hmmm, and I've been thinking, if the standard game is 2000 points, this game may actually be a bit $$ expensive, but nowhere near as bad as GreedDubleyah, of course.


Also, is it just my poor reading skills, or are characters not allowed to join units?

Using what I have, that's why I got excited about these rules coming out. Probably do an Undead army at some point, but no sense in all those GW models go to waste since they priced me out of Warhammer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cryonicleech wrote:Hmmm, and I've been thinking, if the standard game is 2000 points, this game may actually be a bit $$ expensive, but nowhere near as bad as GreedDubleyah, of course.


Also, is it just my poor reading skills, or are characters not allowed to join units?

Haven't seen any rules for Characters joining units, but it's beta. Most, if not all, have Inspiring to help with Nerve. Just have them charge in with a regiment or support the charge in the flank. I'm liking the Characters out on thier own instead of cheesily being hidden in units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cryonicleech wrote:So... does anybody have enough KoW models to make an army? If so, do post some piccies.

No Mantic figs, but mustering the forces for a playtest game. Orc and Human armies @900pts; each have 7 units and one character.

Looking good, can't wait for the battle report.

My friend actually owns some Tomb Kings, so I'll see if I can get a 500 pointer going.

And did you print the PDF? Or was that at the Mantic Open Day and us Yanks missed out?

Cryonicleech wrote:Looking good, can't wait for the battle report.

My friend actually owns some Tomb Kings, so I'll see if I can get a 500 pointer going.

And did you print the PDF? Or was that at the Mantic Open Day and us Yanks missed out?

If you signed up for the newsletter, there was a link for a pdf. I dont know if I can link it now

Cryonicleech wrote:So... does anybody have enough KoW models to make an army? If so, do post some piccies.

I dont have pics, but I bought the Malak army deal and a detachment box at Adepticon. Cost just shy of $200. Or 99 in british money.

Vampire on pegasus
2 necromancers
Army Standard Bearer

60 Skellies, 60 Revenants, 30+ ghouls, 2 catapults, 5 knights.

I think it points to close to 2000pts.

Is it just me, or do the Army Standard Bearers seem awful cheap?

skrulnik wrote:

Cryonicleech wrote:So... does anybody have enough KoW models to make an army? If so, do post some piccies.

I dont have pics, but I bought the Malak army deal and a detachment box at Adepticon. Cost just shy of $200.

I think it points to close to 2000pts.

Is it just me, or do the Army Standard Bearers seem awful cheap?

Well they dont do much. They boost your Nerve by one for like around 30 points and only do like 2 attacks

Cryonicleech wrote:Looking good, can't wait for the battle report.

My friend actually owns some Tomb Kings, so I'll see if I can get a 500 pointer going.

And did you print the PDF? Or was that at the Mantic Open Day and us Yanks missed out?

Printed from PDF, but forgot to hit 'fit to page' so it printed in leaflet form; but it works.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kenshin620 wrote:

Cryonicleech wrote:Looking good, can't wait for the battle report.

My friend actually owns some Tomb Kings, so I'll see if I can get a 500 pointer going.

And did you print the PDF? Or was that at the Mantic Open Day and us Yanks missed out?

If you signed up for the newsletter, there was a link for a pdf. I dont know if I can link it now

Rules: http://tinyurl.com/2uzgf8l
Army Lists: http://tinyurl.com/3ac8ahz

Oh, I've got the PDF's, I just noticed that Grog had this nice printed version, meaning that he doesn't have to lug around a laptop all day...

@ Skrulnik: Ahh, good to know. How are the army deals? If they're any good, I may just pick up an Elf army...

Deals are good. Most of them number well over 100 figures, including characters and cavalry for about $150-180, depending on exchange rate.

Should check them out here.
http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Army-Deals-and-Offers.html

A GW army of similar build will run at least double the cost.