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I'm starting a project using the Mark III Armor for my sternguard and I'd like some feedback on how to load them out.

I already have a unit of 10 sternguard: 7 bolters, 2 plasma gun, sergeant with powerfist.

For my second sternguard squad, I've purchased 15 troops worth of the Mark III armor so that I can swap out a few weapons if I need to.

My Plan:

5 bolters.
2 x Plasma Gunners
2 x melta gunners
2 x combi-plasma
2 x combi-melta
1 x Sergeant with Powerfist
1 x Sergeant with Powersword + Meltabombs

This would let me run squads like:
* 5 bolters, 2 combi-melta, 2 melta, sergeant in a rhino or drop pod
* 5 bolters, 2 combi-plasma, 2 plasma, sergeant in a rhino or drop pod
* 6 total dudes in a razorback
* Combat Squad: 1 bolter + the meltas AND sergeant + the Plasmas combat squaded from a drop pod. Melta's wreck a transport, plasmas kill the passengers.

Does that sound like a solid, versitile build for 15 troops? Also, when I make a 10 man squad, it leaves enough to make another 5 man squad (with a sergeant).

It looks like a devestating tank hunter unit, but I prefer directing my tank hunters either to light skimmers and transports or heavy tanks. Not both.

If it is used with Pedro Cantor then it is amaizing

Suicidal Cheez wrote:It looks like a devestating tank hunter unit, but I prefer directing my tank hunters either to light skimmers and transports or heavy tanks. Not both.

I get what you're saying. I'm thinking that I'd normally play with one or the other of these lists:
* 5 bolters, 2 combi-melta, 2 melta, sergeant in a rhino or drop pod
OR
* 5 bolters, 2 combi-plasma, 2 plasma, sergeant in a rhino or drop pod

I'd use the squad with the meltas to go after heavy tanks and such.

The squad with the plasmas would mainly go after troops or command squads. Clear out squaters on an objective, for example.

For each list, I'd look at where my gap was and use these guys to possibly fill one.

Honestly, I find that all combi-meltas are the best way to go. There's no reason to give up the Special Ammo that you're paying for.

I agree with you, but meltas are oh so tempting. I mean they are pretty much a guarantee instant death for anything that doesnt have EW or the like. And they just rape vehicles. Besides you still have 5 marines with the special ammo.


Seriously I think Sternguard are my fav SM unit hands down. Well worth the points if you ask me

Monster Rain wrote:Honestly, I find that all combi-meltas are the best way to go. There's no reason to give up the Special Ammo that you're paying for.

As king kracker said, I'd still have 8 marines that can shoot their special ammo. Meanwhile the two melta gunners (or plasma gunners, depending on the unit I took) can continue firing AP 1 (or 2) shots into units.

I didn't use them with any real regularity until recently, but I really dig them.

I find that I don't usually get more than one melta shot with them on anything that it would matter against, since your opponent will generally get the hell away from them as fast as possible with vehicles if they come in via Drop Pod.

Fair enough. I hadn't looked at it that way.

i like to do 2 special weapons of chosen type and then 8 combi-weapons to match.

Either Melta or Flamers as Plasma is more expensive and has a risk.

if Flamers i do 2 Heavy flamers. the Extra Str and AP is well worth it.


the Sergeant may have a LC depending on whats going on.

Actually, like the idea a Powerfist on the Sergeant. You'll be putting them deep into the gak and if they get charged with a Walker or something they should at least have a chance at fighting back. I speak from experience on that one.

It also allows you to be that aggressive when they're ready for anything.

PFs on sarges don't have a very high rate of success even against units they are supposed to be good against.

Taking them as insurance is a good way to just waste 25 points. If your sternguard squad is getting charged by a walker or MC, it is probably screwed. You put them there, so just accept their loss, or if you still have combat tactics, attempt that.

A LC? Fine, its not as expensive, helps a fair amount in CC, and has more attacks. The reroll is nice too.

notabot187 wrote:PFs on sarges don't have a very high rate of success even against units they are supposed to be good against.

Taking them as insurance is a good way to just waste 25 points. If your sternguard squad is getting charged by a walker or MC, it is probably screwed. You put them there, so just accept their loss, or if you still have combat tactics, attempt that.

When you put it that way, of course it sounds terrible!

It's better than nothing, and who still has combat tactics? Vulkan or Pedro should be in a list that relies on Sternguard with Combi-Meltas riding in Pods!

A power fist is useful in a lot of ways, don't sell it short as being simply insurance. I've had way too many Ork Nobs kill my Dreads with PKs to accept the argument that a Fist doesn't work against walkers.

I wouldn't take the melta/plasma guns and some plain bolters, I'd take combi-weapons all round. Unless you're facing wave after wave of MCs and vehicles, you rarely need to shoot special weapons more than once, and you are losing the ability to fire that sweet special ammo, which will be a better choice in lots of situations. From a modelling standpoint, I think combi-weapons look cool and fit in well with the idea of sternguard as precision fire teams who rely on excellent bolter drill.

Kronk
you need to give every one of those guys a combi weapon - either 10 meltas, 10 flamers, or 5 meltas and 5 flamers. stick them in a drop pod and combat squad them when they get out, then use your combi weapons to smash two different targets that turn. what happens to them after that doesnt really matter, but you dont want to giveup your special ammo by taking normal special weapons. spcial ammo is more adaptable and often gets the same job done. AF

I concur with AbaddonFidelis. Combi-weapons all the way. Drop down and nuke one ( or situation allowing two ) enemy units. Follow with special ammo fire on the following turn if you are still alive ( bonus! ). Having been on the receiving end of this tactics with my IG Regiment several times I can testify to its effectiveness.

Monster Rain wrote:

notabot187 wrote:PFs on sarges don't have a very high rate of success even against units they are supposed to be good against.

Taking them as insurance is a good way to just waste 25 points. If your sternguard squad is getting charged by a walker or MC, it is probably screwed. You put them there, so just accept their loss, or if you still have combat tactics, attempt that.

When you put it that way, of course it sounds terrible!

It's better than nothing, and who still has combat tactics? Vulkan or Pedro should be in a list that relies on Sternguard with Combi-Meltas riding in Pods!

A power fist is useful in a lot of ways, don't sell it short as being simply insurance. I've had way too many Ork Nobs kill my Dreads with PKs to accept the argument that a Fist doesn't work against walkers.

No, it isn't better than nothing, as nothing isn't applicable. It is 25 points better spend else where.

I still use combat tactics. Even with multiple stern guard units. I don't like Pedro, at all. I don't use Vulcan, though his buff is nice, it is hardly required. Rather save the points and just run a cheap vanilla librarian (or termi libby) instead.

As for the orc example... Nob PKs have 4 attacks on the charge at S9... How is that similar to a sarges power fist? -1 S -1 attack changes the number by a fair margin. 2 hits, need a 4 to pen, need a 5+ to kill. That is a 33% kill rate, which is acceptable. A SM sarge on the other hand has: 3 attack on the charge, 1.5 hits, need a 5 to pen, +5 to destroy. 16% chance to destroy. Half as likely to destroy a dread just from 2 numbers being 1 lower? Sounds like a strawman.

I agree with notabot. I also ALWAYS charge rhinos with boyz, and most the times I will leave it in ruins.

Now I ask you, would you try that with a tactical squad? Hell no you wouldnt, not unless youve got something special in there, and Im talking JUST THE BOYZ. I usually smoke rhino before the nob get his PK attack. Just because one army is good at something, doesnt mean you should try and emulate it. Save the 25pts for something else, or a nice upgrade

KingCracker wrote:I agree with notabot. I also ALWAYS charge rhinos with boyz, and most the times I will leave it in ruins.

Now I ask you, would you try that with a tactical squad? Hell no you wouldnt

Why wouldn't I?

Krak Grenades on RA10? Hell yeah I would, let me at it!

notabot:

Nothing is definitely applicable, because it's exactly what you'll do to a AV13 Walker without a fist.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Kronk
you need to give every one of those guys a combi weapon - either 10 meltas, 10 flamers, or 5 meltas and 5 flamers. stick them in a drop pod and combat squad them when they get out, then use your combi weapons to smash two different targets that turn. what happens to them after that doesnt really matter, but you dont want to giveup your special ammo by taking normal special weapons. spcial ammo is more adaptable and often gets the same job done. AF

Excellent discussion guys. Thank you. Better to go through multiple ideas now then after I put them together.

I'm still not sold on not having 2 of the normal plasma guns or melta guns.

What if I did these 2 squads:

Squad 1: (5 man)
2x Combi-Melta
2x Melta Gun
1x Sergeant: (TBD) perhaps combi-melta + Melta bombs or Combi-Melta + Power Weapon
Purpose: Drop pod or Razorback up to a heavy tank and pop it.

Squad 2: (10 man)
7x Combi-Plasma
2x Plasma gun
1x Sergeant with Power fist.
Purpose: Drop Pod or Rhino up and Kill MEQ's and MC's. 1/2 of my opponents are some type of space marines.

That looks pretty good, I know people hate on Plasma but honestly with all the FNP Assault Marines running around I definitely see a use for it.

Before I sign off on it completely though, I'd like to know what else is in your list.

I go with combi-meltas all around. If the sarge gets anything, its a LC and melta bombs. Since I pod my stern right into the fire, any walker or big vehicle left to charge them first should have been turned to slag. If not, then they will still tie it for a turn or two.

If you really want some anti-walker insurance. Drop Lysander with them. They are the only unit that truly makes use of his bolter drill ability, and he just loves bashing things in the face. And with the storm shield and EW, anything that gets into assault with them, might just end up there for the rest of the game.

*Quick note - I normally only pull the Lysander trick in spear head where I know there will be targets galor.

Lysander with Sternguard is awesome.

Bolter Drill with Special Ammo is pure win.

Before I sign off on it completely though, I'd like to know what else is in your list.

No idea!

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I change lists all of the time. I know that's not the best way to become a great general, but my friends and I play 4-5 round Planetary Empire campaigns with fixed lists for each round. Round-robin sort of thing.

That's why I build units for flexibility. My first sternguard squad is actually 12 marines so that I can change a few things out.

A normal build for me is to drop in dreadnought, charge with assault marines (PA in a rhino and Terminators) and camp with tactical squads and devastators. The 5-man melta/combi-meltas would most likely be used in a drop pod. I'd use them to clear out a vindicator/predator or tag my opponent's land raider. Meanwhile, my land raider with assault marines or terminators will charge towards an objective to clear it. A rhino sporting a tactical squad could follow the land raider to hold the objective. I like to be aggressive.

The 10-man plasma squad would drop in to clear out camping Space Wolves or Blood Angels. Alternatively, they could be driving around in a rhino to take out the stupid wolf riders or the Jump Pack Blood Angel squads.

That's my plan, anyway.

Monster Rain wrote:

KingCracker wrote:I agree with notabot. I also ALWAYS charge rhinos with boyz, and most the times I will leave it in ruins.

Now I ask you, would you try that with a tactical squad? Hell no you wouldnt

Why wouldn't I?

Krak Grenades on RA10? Hell yeah I would, let me at it!

notabot:

Nothing is definitely applicable, because it's exactly what you'll do to a AV13 Walker without a fist.

Well, AV 13 is really only taken heavily in 2 lists BA, and Daemons (soul grinders) The Vanilla one is generally too focused for most lists.

My points still stands that it is better to run away, or better yet, not get into that situation (walkers are slow... you are there because you wanted to be).

On the OPs question about special weapons: Most games you only need/get to fire the special weapons once. So I would go with combis for all. That way if you survive, you can make best use of special ammo.

Yeah, I didn't know you COULD field sternguard in any way but 10 all with combi-meltas or combi-plasma in a drop pod.

Perhaps the reason I've never seen them fielded any other way is that any other way is worse than showing up out of nowhere and getting two free kills before your opponent can react.

Stopped reading after the first few lines of how you had them loaded out.

NEVER replace their bolter with a special weapon, the versatility is always better, especially when they get 5 point combi weapons.

Just go 6 melta 2 plasma 2 flamer combis on a 10 man and you have everything covered, and everyone still has their special ammo.

Kill Dem:

I'm just not seeing how giving up meltaguns or plasma guns is that detrimental. They'll lose out on long-range firing, but I will likely always be moving with my sternguard. That's going to limit me to 12" rapid fire range, anyway. Being able to shoot 12" with a 7/2 or 8/1 every turn that my sternguard survive is just as useful as the special ammo, isn't it? Also, you can play more of the wound allocation game with diverse units.

However, I am leaning more towargs giving the 5 bolters combi-meltas. It's only 5 points and dead useful. I have my other squad if I just need special ammo sternguard. So, I'd end up with:

7 combi-meltas
2 meltas
2 plasma
2 combi-plasma
sgt Probably with a combi-melta
sgt Probably with a combi-plasma

I'd have a 5-man anti-marine unit and a 10-man pick-something-and-kill-it unit.

need to include pedro and this is a winner i use 3 units of 8 in drop pods with pedro with one unit and a tech in full servo in another and take a couple of dreads in pods to (tech allows this

as for wep fits i have
2 meltas and 2 combis in one plus fist
2 plasma and 2 combi in second with tech marine plus fist
2 heavy flamer and 2 combi in the third with pedro plus power wep

the dreads are kitted up one anti tank one any infantry

this way you can deal with any problem as you get to choose wich half of them come in so can deal with appropriate threats and last pedro makes all the stearn guard scoring units

So you take a Master of the Forge and Pedro in your list?