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In the new DE codex it states the armour for the dais is better, but other than that, it is treated exactly like a raider. Does this mean it can have the upgrades? Its not listed under his entry, it just states "treated like a raider" and under raiders it lists possible upgrades and their points.

It said it needs "9 more" members atop the Dais so this may mean the retune option characters .

I would assume that the Dais would be eligible for other upgrades, though considering how expensive it already is, I dunno if you'd really want to add anymore.

ghosted... see below

Homer

You pay for any 9 models that must start in the Raider with Vect. The Court is not a Retinue, nor is it Mandatory. It's the same as, say, a Command Squad, where every Captain lets you take one. Every Archon lets you take a Court if you want.

As for Upgrades, I am not sure.

I would say that it cannot, since it doesn't say it can.

"Trated like a Raider" simply means it has the Transport Capacity and special rules of the Raider.

Remember, the new Court will not be a retinue according to the codex at my FLGS (GW). What I don't remember is if the nine models means a Court of 9 additional models is included in the cost of the Dais or you pay for any unit of 9 models that Vect joins in the Dais/Raider. And does he or any other SC count as an Archon for purposes of the Court?

@Gwar: Does "treated exactly like a Raider" mean what you state? I would think if it was just size and rules it would say that.

Homer

Homer S wrote:Remember, the new Court will not be a retinue according to the codex at my FLGS (GW). What I don't remember is if the nine models means a Court of 9 additional models is included in the cost of the Dais or you pay for any unit of 9 models that Vect joins in the Dais/Raider. And does he or any other SC count as an Archon for purposes of the Court?

@Gwar: Does "treated exactly like a Raider" mean what you state? I would think if it was just size and rules it would say that.

Homer

And if it were meant to be allowed to have Upgrades, it would also say so. It doesn't though, so it can't.

I will admit it's not 100% clear.

And as for vect being an Archon, covered in the Courts rules.

Gwar! wrote:SNIP And as for vect being an Archon, covered in the Courts rules.

Missed that, thanks!

One last question: if it says "exactly like" why would that exclude options?

Homer

Homer S wrote:

Gwar! wrote:SNIP And as for vect being an Archon, covered in the Courts rules.

Missed that, thanks!

One last question: if it says "exactly like" why would that exclude options?

Homer

Thats the thing, I am not 100% sure it does (I don't have the codex obviously). xD

Even if it does say that, wouldn't upgrading it be treating it exactly like an upgraded version?

Hey, not only am I practically chatting with Gwar, he almost agrees with me! I should go buy a lottery ticket or something...

Homer

kirsanth wrote:Even if it does say that, wouldn't upgrading it be treating it exactly like an upgraded version?

As I said, it's unclear. I need to have another look at the exact wording.

This WILL be going into my FAQ as soon as I get round to the army list section of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Homer S wrote:Hey, not only am I practically chatting with Gwar, he almost agrees with me! I should go buy a lottery ticket or something...

Homer

I don't think any Lotteries have the letters R, A and W on them!

It is treated as a raider, it is not a raider.
No upgrades allowed, and it cannot move over 6" and fire all of the Dark Lances... only 1.

All weapons fire at BS 4.

I am pretty sure (ok, hoping) they FAQ it to be allowed to move 12 and shoot everything, but I won't hold my breath.

Gwar! wrote:You pay for any 9 models that must start in the Raider with Vect. The Court is not a Retinue, nor is it Mandatory. It's the same as, say, a Command Squad, where every Captain lets you take one. Every Archon lets you take a Court if you want.

As for Upgrades, I am not sure.

I would say that it cannot, since it doesn't say it can.

"Trated like a Raider" simply means it has the Transport Capacity and special rules of the Raider.

I came up with another Dais question: can the unit of 9 models be a unit of fewer models with joined ICs?

Homer

Homer S wrote:

Gwar! wrote:You pay for any 9 models that must start in the Raider with Vect. The Court is not a Retinue, nor is it Mandatory. It's the same as, say, a Command Squad, where every Captain lets you take one. Every Archon lets you take a Court if you want.

As for Upgrades, I am not sure.

I would say that it cannot, since it doesn't say it can.

"Trated like a Raider" simply means it has the Transport Capacity and special rules of the Raider.

I came up with another Dais question: can the unit of 9 models be a unit of fewer models with joined ICs?

Homer

Yes, of course. The only stipulation that 9 models + Vect start in the Pimpmobile. What those 9 models are is not restricted, so you could have Vect, 3 Haemonculi and 6 Wyches if you wanted.

That's what I was thinking, I was looking for a second opinion on it.

Thanks!
Homer

I'm thinking that the Dias can take upgrades, since the text itself states the differences in his vehicle versus the stock raider, and then essentially redirects you to the stock raider as a basis for how to use the unit.

I haven't seen Vect's rule page in the back, per say.... only his flavor entry in the beginning of the book.

What does it say in his stat page? May take (1) Dias of Destruction for (XXX) points? I think the wording in his entry might shed some light on the situation.

I would say that if the Dais is "treated as a Raider" it is considered to be a unique Raider, and therefore would have access to anything a regular Raider would, although as to why you would upgrade it is beyond me, as even at 2000 point games, it's 1/4 of your entire points limit going into one model.

Valkyrie wrote:why you would upgrade it is beyond me, as even at 2000 point games, it's 1/4 of your entire points limit going into one model.

Because the upgrades are fairly cheap - at 10 or 5 points a pop, for something potentially gamechanging.

But yeah I would assume the Dais can't take upgrades, as I would look at it as another special character, who can't normally take wargear.

Of course, I would need to see the codex.

Treated like a Raider means you can take upgrades. I don't think the rules could be any clearer either so all the RAWists should be jumping in the streets.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:Treated like a Raider means you can take upgrades. I don't think the rules could be any clearer either so all the RAWists should be jumping in the streets.

Statements like this when the codex isn't even out yet make me laugh.

Well I read the codex after I got my copy so feel free to keep laughing. I am okay with that and salute you sir.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:Treated like a Raider means you can take upgrades.

kirsanth wrote:Even if it does say that, wouldn't upgrading it be treating it exactly like an upgraded version?

Why are you quoting yourself? I mean seriously, no need to be that dramatic.

Because your statement did not answer the question already posted: which is you are only alowed to treat it as a raider, NOT a "raider with flickerfields" etc.

Hint: you have permission to do one, not the other.

Raiders are allowed to be equipped with upgrades. The dias is just like a raider in that regard.

Which makes them a raider with flickerfield, which is not a raider.

One of them is what you are allowed to be treated as, the other is something else.

Thats just your opinion really.

Or its an accurate reading of the rules as currently written, and the contrary is wishful thinking.

I'm sure GW will FAQ this one then we will see who is right.