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Just a quick question with regards to the Black Templars codex Hunter Killer Missiles.

The codex as you are all probably aware is quite old, and I was reading the rules regarding Hunter Killer Missiles (I found myself in the bizarre position of having 15 extra points and no other way to spend them), and it states that they are an unlimited range krak missile, and that "Hunter Killer missiles fitted to Space Marine vehicles are Ballistic Skill 4."

Now I'm wondering that, since they are "treated as an additional main weapon," can they be fired by the PotMS? If they can, whose ballistic skill do they use, the HK missile's BS4 or the PotMS's BS2? It would seem like one would use the "firer's" BS2, but I'm curious if the specific BS4 of the HK missile overrides that.

Thanks

Xca|iber wrote:Just a quick question with regards to the Black Templars codex Hunter Killer Missiles.

The codex as you are all probably aware is quite old, and I was reading the rules regarding Hunter Killer Missiles (I found myself in the bizarre position of having 15 extra points and no other way to spend them), and it states that they are an unlimited range krak missile, and that "Hunter Killer missiles fitted to Space Marine vehicles are Ballistic Skill 4."

Now I'm wondering that, since they are "treated as an additional main weapon," can they be fired by the PotMS? If they can, whose ballistic skill do they use, the HK missile's BS4 or the PotMS's BS2? It would seem like one would use the "firer's" BS2, but I'm curious if the specific BS4 of the HK missile overrides that.

Thanks

I would say that the PotMS rule wins, but that's just me.

RaW, without anything to tell you what wins, you need to make a House Rule anyway!

I had this exact conversation with a gentleman at my FLGS a few weeks ago. He and I are both big BT fans.

As a result, my FLGS has a house rule that "big numbers knock all the little numbers down, take their lunch money, and kick them in the gibbly bits. The little numbers go running home crying, while the big numbers are the ones you use."

Almost verbatim.

How intriguing.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how was this treated in 4th edition?

SaintHazard wrote:I had this exact conversation with a gentleman at my FLGS a few weeks ago. He and I are both big BT fans.

As a result, my FLGS has a house rule that "big numbers knock all the little numbers down, take their lunch money, and kick them in the gibbly bits. The little numbers go running home crying, while the big numbers are the ones you use."

Almost verbatim.

I like your FLGS house rule. Though I'm not sure your justification is going to fly with my local group

EDIT: Derp, double post. Thought it would auto-append.

Our justification was something along the lines of "we're making gak up anyway so feth it."

And since that was specifically the issue at hand, we figured the self-guided systems on the HK missile probably overrode the Machine Spirit's crappy marksmanship. But there are other examples out there of similar conflicts, and we figured it was fair to pick one or the other and go with it. We picked high.

I would say that it is BS4, as the PoMS is firing the HK missile, which states that it is fired at BS4, even though PoMS is BS2, if you know what I mean.

Valkyrie wrote:I would say that it is BS4, as the PoMS is firing the HK missile, which states that it is fired at BS4, even though PoMS is BS2, if you know what I mean.

Yes this seems like house rule territory but I would go with this. If there were a vehicle in the BT codex which had a BS of 3 (I know there's not but if...) then the HK missile rule would seem to allow the missile to fire at a BS of 4...so I would apply the same logic to the times when the PotMS is firing the HK(or activating the wargear as it were).

I'ts definately a rule black hole, as the BRB always says to us the BS of the firer (IIRC), so would the firer be the LRC or the HK itself?

House rule is the way to go lol!

While it is a house rule, the question in the above post could be interpreted that the LRC is in fact firing the missile, which has an additional rule to alter the firer's BS value.

But the missile is always BS4 for a reason. You can fire guided missiles poorly all you want, but once their guided system takes over, your own crappy marksmanship doesn't matter anymore.

Unless you fire the thing straight into the ground like a moron.

SaintHazard wrote:Unless you fire the thing straight into the ground like a moron.

So... like every Initiate I've ever handed a meltagun?

Xca|iber wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Unless you fire the thing straight into the ground like a moron.

So... like every Initiate I've ever handed a meltagun?

Better than handing them a plasma gun.

zeshin wrote:

Xca|iber wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Unless you fire the thing straight into the ground like a moron.

So... like every Initiate I've ever handed a meltagun?

Better than handing them a plasma gun.

Xca|iber wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Unless you fire the thing straight into the ground like a moron.

So... like every Initiate I've ever handed a meltagun?

I swear to god BT have no training school for meltaguns. They're archaic devices no one has successfully aimed in hundreds of years. They write god-damned stories about the initiates who can aim them as being 'heroes without equal'.

In short I have much the same issues.

As for the firing, machine spirit activates weapon, weapon fires at bs2 unless otherwise noted(Asscan/MM/Heavy bolter have no objections) Hunter killer states that it always fires at bs4. I think it would overturn the bs2.

So funny story because of machine spirit the hunter killer can veer off and kill someone else.