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So, I've been carefully considering the Blood Angels List I want to do, and I've made some changes from the Light Side list I made a while back. I'm lookinf for general list critiques, and responses to italicized notes.

The Sanguinary Host


HQ: 350 Points
Dante: 225 Points

Librarian: 125 Points
-Jump Pack
-Sanguine Shield
-Sanguine Sword

Elites: 445 Points
Sanguinary Priests: 225 Points
-Models x 3
-Jump Packs x3

Furioso Dreadnought: 175 Points
-Librarian Furioso
-Blood Lance
-Unleash Rage

Not sure what powers to give this guy. Blood Lance seems to be all the rage, though.

Drop Pod: 45 Points
-Locator Beacon


Troops: 690 Points
Sanguinary Guard: 250 Points
-Chapter Banner
-Infernus Pistol
-Power Fist

Assault Squad: 220 Points
-5 Extra Models
-Flamer
-Meltgun
-Power Weapon

Assault Squad: 220 Points
-5 Extra Models
-Flamer
-Meltagun
-Power Weapon

Fast Attack: 360 Points
Land Speeder: 70 Points
-Multi Melta
-Heavy Flamer

Land Speeder: 70 Points
-Multi Melta
-Heavy Flamer

Vanguard Veterans: 220 Points
-Jump Packs x5
-Infernus Pistol
-Power Weapons x2
-Power Fist

So, the JP Libraran, Dante, and the Sanguinary Priest join the Sanguinary Guard. Each Assault Squad gets a SangPriest as well. I know Vanguard Vets aren't popular, but I think they'll be great fun, and a great psychological warfare tool. I know a single Dread Pod is usually a no-go, but I think I'm safe. It's hard to argue it won;t be supported when anything else in the army can can deep strike near it. What's more, if the Drop Pod survives, I've got a non-scattering deepstrike point the next turn, and DoA ensures I'll get what I want on the board in.

The real question here, is how to bring the list up to 2k. I'm considering three options:

Option 1 is to flesh out the Vanguard Squad. It's pricey, though. It brings a 220 point unit up to 370 points, but It'll terrorize a lot of things. I'm leaning in this direction, so far. Another advantage here is that this option adds no additional kill points to a list that already gives out 12-13. 150 points nets the following:

-Veterans x3
-Jump Packs x3
-Power Weapons x2
-Thunder Hammer

Next, I'm considering another Dread Pod. Adds 2 kill points, and breaks the golden rule of Drop Pods, by having an even number. I'm not wild about this option, but it fits nicely, and it is another Multimelta. At the very least, it gives me the option to hold the Furioso Librarian back for a turn, should I ever need to.

Dreadnought

Drop Pod
-Locator Beacon

Third and final option is a Chaplain. Most of the weapons in the Sang Squad already re-roll, plus that's alot of kill points to group together already, so I think I'll add him to one of the Assault squads, to make it more killy. He can also bring a little more anti-tank power to bear, since I can afford an Infernus pistol. He also ads a single kill point, but is still my second favorite option.

Chaplain
-Jump Pack
-Infernus Pistol
-Melta Bomb

Ho would you kit out the second dread if you added that? 150 points is not much for a dread and a drop pod.
I think the chaplain attached to one of the assault squads will add the most effectiveness. Re-rolling all your WS 4 attacks on the charge is always good.

I think the dread-librarian is a bit gimicky...you may have good luck with it, but to use it well you will have to place it up front and close to an area that I predict will be bristling with melta guns. If you keep him, I like the powers you have chosen. Maybe fear of the darkness would work well to though, instead of unleash rage...hard to say without testing.
I never count up my kill points. I just don't care about them. I'm more concerned about having a list with units that are either effective or fun. I like the idea of adding a chaplain. It will make any unit better.

Dok wrote:Ho would you kit out the second dread if you added that? 150 points is not much for a dread and a drop pod.
I think the chaplain attached to one of the assault squads will add the most effectiveness. Re-rolling all your WS 4 attacks on the charge is always good.

I can't give out the point costs, but trust me. A stock (MM) Dreadnought is a smidgen more than 100 points, and a Drop Pod with a Locator Beacon is that same smidgen less than 50.

FortheEmperor! wrote:I think the dread-librarian is a bit gimicky...you may have good luck with it, but to use it well you will have to place it up front and close to an area that I predict will be bristling with melta guns. If you keep him, I like the powers you have chosen. Maybe fear of the darkness would work well to though, instead of unleash rage...hard to say without testing.
I never count up my kill points. I just don't care about them. I'm more concerned about having a list with units that are either effective or fun. I like the idea of adding a chaplain. It will make any unit better.

It's true. I am worried about all those melta guns being turned at my one high AV model. I'm hoping that they'll be to busy dealing with all the other power armored dudes in their face.

So that's 2 votes so far for the Chaplain.

I would not take the Furioso Librarian at all. He's drop podding so he's landing on turn 1 all alone. He'll die without contributing anything of real value to your cause. I'd either take something like Terminators or an Honor guard (since they deepstrike at normal speed with the rest of the army) instead. The Termies should be Assault Termies (mix of TH/SS and LC) if you take them, and they're more of a solid combat rock for you. The Honor Guard should get either Meltas, Plasmas, or a mix of Meltas and Flamers. Personally I love 4x Plasma Gun HG units as they're phenomenal against MCs and still good against light armor.

I'd grab a second Infernus Pistol for your Sanguinary Guard, that way you're going to be getting a damaging hit almost every time.

For the Assault Squads I think you need to pick either all Flamers or all Meltas. Dividing the unit's ideal target just makes it fairly mediocre against everything as opposed to good against one thing. I run mine with 2x Melta, 1x Powerfist, 1x Infernus Pistol. I figure they're strong enough against horde type units in CC that they don't really need the guns to help them out, and the list is inherently lacking in AT ability. The abundance of melta weapons you can build into the list really helps make your alpha strike on the turn you drop be that much more crippling to your opponent as well.

Lastly, I don't think I'd take the Land Speeders. I like them a lot, and I know they're very good. In a DoA based list though, the Vanguards play a pretty important role in your ability to protect your army and tie up scary enemy guns. I would take 3 small units of them and give the Sarge a Powerfist so that they can threaten almost anything.

I like Caffran's idea about dropping land speeders for Vanguard's. I also think you could drop the libby dread and a JP Sang priest for a unit of honor guard with melta or plasma, since they come with a priest as well.

I'm not sure I can justify spending anymore on Vangaurd Vets. They're already a huge chunk for what I'm getting.

Swtiching out the Librarian Dread for an honor Guard is something to think about, though...

I'd keep the Vanguard units super cheap. They aren't going to be the ones that really kill the enemy army. They're going to protect your army by creating screens with close combats, and by working on soft backfield fire support (a unit of Vanguards will beat a unit of Long Fangs or something similar in combat without issues).

I typically run my Vanguards like this:

5x Vanguards: Jump Packs, 1x Powerfist (on sarge)

Totals up to 175pts all said and done. They are not very resilient when it comes to it as they're just normal marines, and in order to make them really kill stuff you have to spend a really large amount of points on them (which isn't worth it). If you keep them light and cheap, they become amazing gun hunters, able to smash into artillery/vehicles with their powerfist/krak grenades and tear up shooty units like Long Fangs, Lootas, Devs, Havocs, Obliterators, etc. They keep a lot of pressure off of the stuff you're going to be landing on turn 2. 1 unit often isn't quite enough though and to make sure that you're getting 2 units of Vanguards on your turn 2 drop, you'll want 3 units of them.

Commander Endova wrote:I'm not sure I can justify spending anymore on Vangaurd Vets. They're already a huge chunk for what I'm getting.

Swtiching out the Librarian Dread for an honor Guard is something to think about, though...

Vanguards can be expensive, but they're also what makes a DoA list actually threatening rather than just a novelty.

Melta HG and at least one squad, though usually two, of Vanguard are the hallmarks of a good DoA list for me.

A few things:

Who is Dante joining to take advange of his unscattering deepstrike? You'll want something good for that, I'd say 2x melta 4x flamer HG. It'll put down any tank, and maul infantry nicely. Though if you're not taking more sanguinary guard I'd consider dropping Dante completely, as he really doesnt add much to the list.

It's better to have 2 min sized vanguard than 1 killy vanguard, as their use isnt really to kill as such, its to tie stuff up on the drop to protect you assault squads.

Youll want shield of sanguinius for your lib dread, so he can actually use both of his powers.