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How come everyone seems to like Missile Launchers so much? Is there something wrong with taking them with Plasma Cannons Or Las?
Almost every list I see takes all Missiles most of the time.

Missile Launchers are versatile, whether firing frag at inf or krak at tough inf or light armor, they have something to shoot at every turn usually. Their 48" range is also solid so they aren't often out of range. With long fangs especially missile launchers are nice due to being able to split fire. You want to pop a ork trukk, you likely don't need all 4 missiles firing at it, so you split 2 of the launchers to shoot a 2nd trukk perhaps, or some lootas hanging back.

While other heavy weapons are better in certain situations, few armies possess a heavy weapon good at so many situations as the missile launcher.

The Missile Launcher is an amazing all-rounder. It is also very cheap.

The easiest answer?

Missile Launcher.....(X)pts........Does: Anti MEQ, Anti Tank, Anti Horde, ID on T4
Plasma Cannon......(X+10)pts...Does: Anti MEQ, Anti Horde(not well for the points)
Lascannon............(X+15)pts...Does: Anti MEQ, Anti Tank, Anti TEQ , ID on T4

The missile just acomplishes more things, for 10 or 15 points less. (Now theres 5 in a unit, so you are saving 50 or 75 points.)

EDIT: Changed actual point values to variables.

Yep. What everyone has posted so far is correct.
It is worth mentioning though, that a ratio of 3 ML's to 2 Plasma Cannons or 2 Lascannons can work well though, being slightly more expensive but also deadlier.

Slight correction on the Plasma Cannons, they do anti-horde work really well. A 2+ to wound most horde elements is one heck of a step up from 3+ against T3 and 4+ against T4.

Think of a Plasma blast hitting seven Imperial Guardsmen, seven Tyranid Termagants, or seven Ork Boyz. Compared this to a Frag Missile blast hitting the same:

Seven Termagants:
PC 7(5/6) = 5.81
FM 7(4/6) = 4.69

Seven Guardsmen:
PC 7(5/6) = 5.81
FM 7(4/6)(4/6) = 3.14 (mmmh, pie)

Seven Boyz:
PC 7(5/6) = 5.81
FM 7(3/6) = 3.5

Seven Firewarriors
PC 7(5/6) = 5.81
FM 7(4/6)(3/6) = 2.35

Even when they hit fewer models, they're much more likely to wound them.

My point? Efficiency is nice, but efficacy is better. The more you kill earlier in the game, the great the compounded advantage each subsequent turn.

Yeah but the missile launcher will never kill its user 1/9 of the time over a plasma cannon.

In my experience, its the longer range, and the ability to pen AV13. Demolishers, Preditors, Ironclads, etc. become much more less scary when you can actually kill it instead of just taking it down piecemeal.

I don't have a problem with the three missile launcher and two lascannon loadout. But I really don't see the appeal of the plasma cannon in a mixed squad.

A plasma cannon will kill its marine firer an average of 1 in 18 times, not 1 in 9.

So would a X3 Missile Launcher and X2 Plasma Cannon be a really good fit? Lets say a good Ard boys Fit?

I believe that your average 'Ard Boyz wolf player would go with MLs.
You have "enough" Las/plas/melta on the razorbacks + their contents, and with today's metagame you only have to "worry" about transports, which have an AV of 10-12.

Jayden61:

Something else to mention is that while Missile Launchers are better at hurting AV13, they're much less effective than Lascannons and Multi-Meltas. Then again, their marginal utility against AV13 is commensurate to their cost and range.

Vasarto:

That will always depend on your strategy. There is no optimal configuration in a vacuum for any unit.

Nurglitch wrote:Slight correction on the Plasma Cannons, they do anti-horde work really well. A 2+ to wound most horde elements is one heck of a step up from 3+ against T3 and 4+ against T4.

Think of a Plasma blast hitting seven Imperial Guardsmen, seven Tyranid Termagants, or seven Ork Boyz. Compared this to a Frag Missile blast hitting the same:

Seven Termagants:
PC 7(5/6) = 5.81
FM 7(4/6) = 4.69

Seven Guardsmen:
PC 7(5/6) = 5.81
FM 7(4/6)(4/6) = 3.14 (mmmh, pie)

Seven Boyz:
PC 7(5/6) = 5.81
FM 7(3/6) = 3.5

Seven Firewarriors
PC 7(5/6) = 5.81
FM 7(4/6)(3/6) = 2.35

Even when they hit fewer models, they're much more likely to wound them.

My point? Efficiency is nice, but efficacy is better. The more you kill earlier in the game, the great the compounded advantage each subsequent turn.

I've never hit 7 models with a small blast, 6 tops. That's with my opponent using the "I'm to lazy to actually move my models individually I'm just gonna kind of shove them in a clump forward 6 inches and then stand up the ones that fall over). Never mind an opponent was keeping them even so much as 1" apart from each other.

7 hits over several shots, not in one go.

Chongara:

Then I suggest that you use tank shock more actively.

Nurglitch wrote:Jayden61:

Something else to mention is that while Missile Launchers are better at hurting AV13, they're much less effective than Lascannons and Multi-Meltas. Then again, their marginal utility against AV13 is commensurate to their cost and range.

Vasarto:

That will always depend on your strategy. There is no optimal configuration in a vacuum for any unit.

Missile Launchers and Multi-meltas have the same strength outside of 12'" and naturally better at 25" plus. However, multi meltas and lascannons are just about worthless vs horde type lists once the armor/big buigs are taken care of.

Its just the utility of the missile launcher that makes it so popular.

Sure, except that AP1 gives Multi-Meltas better utility against vehicles within 12"-24", its advantage in utility at 25"+ is balanced by the vast advantage in utility that the Multi-Melta has within 12". Likewise S9 gives Lascannons better utility against vehicles within 48". The Missile Launcher's saving grace is in being fewer points and more flexible, which is to say more efficient.

The Plasma Cannon has 3/4 the range and less utility against vehicles, as well as being more costly and dangerous to boot. But makes up for this inefficiency by its considerable efficacy in anti-infantry.

The odd gun out is the Heavy Bolter, to which the Missile Launcher is preferable (which is why I've proposed re-writing the Heavy Bolter as Rng36" S4 AP5 Heavy 2 Blast).

Nurglitch wrote:Sure, except that AP1 gives Multi-Meltas better utility against vehicles within 12"-24", its advantage in utility at 25"+ is balanced by the vast advantage in utility that the Multi-Melta has within 12". Likewise S9 gives Lascannons better utility against vehicles within 48". The Missile Launcher's saving grace is in being fewer points and more flexible, which is to say more efficient.

The Plasma Cannon has 3/4 the range and less utility against vehicles, as well as being more costly and dangerous to boot. But makes up for this inefficiency by its considerable efficacy in anti-infantry.

The odd gun out is the Heavy Bolter, to which the Missile Launcher is preferable (which is why I've proposed re-writing the Heavy Bolter as Rng36" S4 AP5 Heavy 2 Blast).

Wow. Rng36" S4 AP5 Heavy 2 Blast is much worse than S5 AP4 Heavy 3.

Heavy bolters are really good on Long fangs.

You can't get the same level of utility for the points as you can with the missile launchers. The few units (AV 13-14) they don't threaten can be taken care of by the rest of the space wolves list which can still pack in a lot of mobile melta. Being much cheaper than SM and being able to split fire means long fangs can really do a lot of heavy lifting for almost any SW list which makes list building a lot easier.

Why thou are they ubiquitously the best choice? Because they have 48" range, str 8, and are cheap. If one can not convince someone with that set of reasons *shrug*

what about autocannons?
I've found S7 AP4 hvy2 to be really effective vs. all targets that MLs excell at, but better

If I get multiple long fangs units, I'll usually fork out the points to upgrade one of them to a squad of Lascannons. Missiles are cool, but they just don't cut it against enemy AV14. Waiting until the enemy LR is w/in 12" usually means that your meltagun guy is too busy having his brains bashed in with a thunder hammer to be concerned w/ the tank. Same deal w/ Battlewagons. And the Leman Russ is not going to come to you. If I field 2 LF sqauds one will be missiles. If I do ever run 3 I'll probably go 2 Missile Packs and one Lascannon pack.

As has been said before, missiles kill a lot of different things and are very cheap. I normally play Codex marines so if I want missiles I am usually using typhoon speeders.

NostrilOfTerror wrote:what about autocannons?
I've found S7 AP4 hvy2 to be really effective vs. all targets that MLs excell at, but better

Krak's better against TMC, tyranid warriors, , nob bikers, anything T4 with FNP, and most importantly MEQ.

ACs are way better against AV10, 11, and 12. AC are really good weapons, but most importantly they are not available to long fangs.

ML are so popular on long fangs because they are so cheap. 5 for 140 is an under priced steal. LC and PC are fairly priced weapons for long fangs, so most space puppies go for the steal instead.

NostrilOfTerror wrote:what about autocannons?
I've found S7 AP4 hvy2 to be really effective vs. all targets that MLs excell at, but better

You can't take these on Long Fangs, they're fine weapons and I'd certainly don't mind taking 2x AC Dreads. They're just not in competition with each other.

It's ludicrously cheap. The other heavy weapons all make for an expensive squad that will probably struggle to make points back while taking even more points away from Wolfey McFangpriest.

That and they are the only army that gets the convenience of a single unit blowing up a transport AND blowing up its tightly-packed cargo in a single round of shooting.

Basically, they're a cheap, high-efficiency (for space wolves), way to throw around just a little bit of support while the rest of your points go into the units that actually make space wolves worth playing.

I think there is another very scary way of running the long fangs and that's in a drop pod with logan and arjac with multi-meltas. You get to drop in, shoot 2 really hard targets, have a scary CC unit as well and basically establish a beachhead for the rest of your army to connect with. But that's the only other REALLY good way to run them.

There are other ways that are okay, but if we're talking best of the best then I think the ML win out over the long run in an all comers army due to cost efficiency and versitility combined with a very good range (especially needed with the new DE)

MrDrumMachine wrote:I think there is another very scary way of running the long fangs and that's in a drop pod with logan and arjac with multi-meltas. You get to drop in, shoot 2 really hard targets, have a scary CC unit as well and basically establish a beachhead for the rest of your army to connect with. But that's the only other REALLY good way to run them.

There are other ways that are okay, but if we're talking best of the best then I think the ML win out over the long run in an all comers army due to cost efficiency and versitility combined with a very good range (especially needed with the new DE)

Whoa! You are right, the above is a VERY SCARY UNIT. But that is most certainly not the "only other REALLY good way to run them".
It's effective, but it's relatively easy to counter and you are dropping a dedicated firepower unit, around 600pts and only 6 models onto the enemys door-step. Not to mention unreliability in deep-strike. Compensated somewhat by the drop-pod I admit. Similarly, whilst Arjac and Logan are good warriors, they aren't going to win it by themselves.
This really isn't that effective a build, you want your Long Fangs as far away from the enemy as possible, not the other way round. It's freakin' scary but after the first couple of times you opponent will realise it really isn't that good.


Most of what people have said here so far is good.
- 5x ML is cheap, flexible and effective, hence it's the most common.
- You could always replace a couple of the missile launchers for a plasma or lascannon for extra deadliness and specialisation.
- Multimelta/Logan/Drop Pod is scary but not that good and is generally a waste of points.
- 1x Missile Launcher, 2x Heavy Bolter, 2x Lascannon is very flexible and deadly against it's specific targets, but is more expensive and more likely to suffer target redundancy.
- Ultimately, I'd follow the 1st two bullet points.

Also I was thinking...Now bear with me..Just for poops and giggles. Having a X2 powerfist leader in the group of longfangs to support anything that gets too close to them! Imagine the Model of having two power fists?! I could name him...."Bob the Basher" "can he punch it!? ...Yes he Can!" "Can he kill it?...."YES HE CAN"

Anyway I am thinking x3 missile launcher sounds good with x plasma. That way I can use the split fire. The way I see it is that three troops of X3 Long Fangs are good enough to take or damage three tanks a turn with them. Than Split the Fire with Plasma so they are ALSO shooting at the Infantry as well.

The Power Fist guy would be for casual games where it would be x2 ML,1 guy x2 PF and x2 PC

MrDrumMachine wrote:I think there is another very scary way of running the long fangs and that's in a drop pod with logan and arjac with multi-meltas. You get to drop in, shoot 2 really hard targets, have a scary CC unit as well and basically establish a beachhead for the rest of your army to connect with. But that's the only other REALLY good way to run them.

There are other ways that are okay, but if we're talking best of the best then I think the ML win out over the long run in an all comers army due to cost efficiency and versitility combined with a very good range (especially needed with the new DE)

It works great as long as Logan and Arjac alone can handle what is thrown at them. All long fangs are going to do for those 2 in CC is give the other side some easy combat resolution. The most dangerous part of the MM long fangs in a drop pod tactic is the space wolf player not knowing when to cut his losses. Sometimes those long fangs should just start on the table instead, or the pod should land in a safe spot next to friendly units instead of going for the MM double vehicle kill. Slagging a pair of rhinos isn't worth losing a 600 point squad in the next turn. SW players just need to keep in mind the worse case scenario isn't wasting a 35 point drop pod by not using the pod, the worst case scenario is trading 600 points & 3 KP of units for 70 points of Rhinos.