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Hey all, I am a new user and have written this army list purely for the sake of your opinion so comments are extremely welcome. :

HQ: Emperors champion, accept any challenge (140)

ELITES: Venerable dreadnought, Multi Melta, Heavy flamer, Drop pod, Tank hunter , Extra armor (200)

TROOPS: 9 Initiates, melta gun, power fist, drop pod ( 199)
10 Initiates, plasma gun, power fist, Rhino (241 )

FAST ATTACK: N/A

HEAVY SUPPORT: Vindictator,extra armor (130)


GENERAL STRATEGY



The main strenght of this army lies in its ability to fight any foe individually, All the units are able to easily cope with monstrous creatures, vehicles as well as light and heavy infantry at range or in close combat due to melta/plasma guns, power fists and re-rolls to hit due to accept any challenge no matter what the odds or simply a veeery big cannon. The main idea of the way I use tis army goes as follows...

Turn 1. The dreadnought lands on turn one in his drop pod, right next to the enemies largest unit or HQ, if its a horde army, i usually go for the largest unit (unless there is something there is power claw in it). Most hordes are unable to do anything to hurt this behemoth as he burns them with his heavy flamer! If im playing orks i go for the warboss, with rerolss to hit and strenght 10 most warbosses will die before they can even strike back with their power claw. When i am elite armies like space marines i tend to drop him behind vehicles where he can put that multi melta to good use as most other things have a power fist seargent.

I tend to always deepstrike the dread first as i only have 2 troops units (which just happens to be my armies only or greatest weakness) and I want to keep them safe in reserve, then they can deepstrike right on the objective or wherever they are most needed.
The same idea goes for the rhino squad, which will probably stay safe in their tank until the later turns of the game, or form a firing line against hordes and then the rhino tanks shocks (even if that annoying knob has a power claw, its either that or they make the assault which even for black templars is bad news).

The emperors champion stays in the drop pod squad, he is mean but he only has two wounds and a potentially easy victory point and since the squad will be deepstriking right where into the toughest part of the battle, they will probably need the help.

The vindictator speaks for itself, its cannon is great at killing everything and that is exactly what it will do.

Thanks for reading, this is my first thread and i hope you liked it, feel free on commenting on my list/strategy.

Firstly, your total comes to 910 points which is bizarre.

Secondly, while deep-striking dreadnoughts is usually a good idea, drop podding crusader squads is not. You're sacrificing their close combat effectiveness for the sake of a meltagun shot. If you must mech up, two rhinos is better. You still can't assault when you disembark, but your extra protection should help a lot.

just an fyi, templars dont follow the same drop pod rules as vanilla marines. your dread cant deepstrike turn 1.

other than that, what liam said is good advice. the crusader unit in the drop pod is basically going to evaporate when they land. they are going to be the closest threat and your opponents arent going to want to let them get into combat.

if you are dead set on doing a templar drop list, i suggest you put everything in drop pods and give your templars bolters. i have never run an army like that, but i have seen it used to some effect. 3 dreads in pods will go a long way to supporting the crusader squads.

when i did drop-templars you could still assault after disembarking from any transport. meltaguns were an after thought, and the emperors champion could challenge "hidden" powerfist models.

You are a Ven dread w/ tankhunters....You should be using a lascannon and staying in cover.

Drop pods = suicide for units.

A single vindicator is going to do nothing except die a fast death.

Thanks all for the advice, Liam, you say that deeping crusders is a bad idea, i dont see how deeping them is a bad idea, ok there is a 50% chance they will be one turn late into cc but the fact that they can arrive where most needed before getting shot and the pod being 20 points cheeper than a rhino (and harder to kill for sake of victory points). Finally, since they arrive after or before the opponent shoots means they shoot them first.


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As for the vindictatot, ur probably right, i will drop it vor another dread or crusader squad


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Oh yeah about the pods flyinmiat i thing gw shared the drop pod assault rules with the pd, does anyone know about this?


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Srry not pd but bt

Malice, you are not taking into account the randomness of reserve rolls, and the fact that they cant assault after getting out if the drop pod.

If you use the rhino, there is no doubt as to when the unit will be available, and you can still shoot from range effectively with rhinos. The drop pods in the BT codex are good for only one thing: delivering a Multi-Melta Dred to the battle where it can blow up a tank.

GW has not done that to my knowledge, otherwise we would also have the improved storm shield with the BT codex as well. GW has never erratad a change that drastic to a codex before, and i doubt they ever will. The truth is the BT are stuck with sub-par drop pods until they get a new codex

Thanks for ur advice and promtness Ztryder, I think i can see the effect of rhinos now, i did take into account the randomness of pods (but that was following the rules of average so guess they can be random but as a rule they will come turn 3 max). Writing a modified list now, more dreads, more rhinos, less pods on crusaders


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Oops gotta go will have list tommorow

Malice wrote:Thanks all for the advice, Liam, you say that deeping crusders is a bad idea, i dont see how deeping them is a bad idea, ok there is a 50% chance they will be one turn late into cc but the fact that they can arrive where most needed before getting shot and the pod being 20 points cheeper than a rhino (and harder to kill for sake of victory points). Finally, since they arrive after or before the opponent shoots means they shoot them first.

I think you're miscalculating this. Ok, your crusader squad drop pods next to a land raider lets say. They then blow it up - but then NEXT turn, they WILL be gunned down. And this is assumign you ever damage the land raider, which you may not manage to do.

Malice wrote:
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As for the vindictatot, ur probably right, i will drop it vor another dread or crusader squad

Good idea.

Malice wrote:
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Oh yeah about the pods flyinmiat i thing gw shared the drop pod assault rules with the pd, does anyone know about this?

No, our drop pods are vastly inferior to the regular ones. Even if they weren't, id still advise against their use. BT are bred for close combat, use this to their advantage!

To tell you the truth, I have seen more than a fare share of games where people did not get their pods in until turn 5 when they are automatic.

What hurts the Templars and their pods is the lack of the Drop Pod Assault rule that is in the Vanilla codex, as well as not being able to take anything that prevents them from scattering (locator beacons) or anything that gives +1 to reserve rolls.

Do not sell out on vindicators. With more rhinos, the vindicators become more survivable. I regularly use vindicators over dreds. That may be because i have never really had great luck using dreds, but i also like the versatility of vindicators, especially with the 5th edition Ordinance rules.

Vindicators have definately improved this edition. I find that in smaller games when you can possibly only take one, it's a giant bullseye.

Taking 3 on the other hand..... VERY advisable.

Ok here is the new list

HQ: Same

Elites: same but 2X

Troops: Same but bot have rhinos

Heavy support:N/A

Could you write it out in full for us so we can see it clearly?

That comes out to around 1000pts right? It is a good start to an army, considering you have chosen to play what is widely considered a rather "uncompetitive" codex below the 2000pt level

About the vindictators, i think ill still leave em out, i dont have enough points, or money to get three right now.

Now, about your logic, 3 vindictators=more things to kill them.
A guy definitely told me bt have the pod assault rule but wont argue this till i ask a gw worker, Now most importantly," I think you're miscalculating this. Ok, your crusader squad drop pods next to a land raider lets say. They then blow it up - but then NEXT turn, they WILL be gunned down. And this is assumign you ever damage the land raider, which you may not manage to do. " Now i dont get this, 1. land raider costs more than crusader, 2. whatever type of land raider it is it whont manage to kill more than about 3-5 in one turn of shooting and in about 3 it will die.



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Ok give me a sec..

Podding crusaders is a workable strategy, but it requires that you have something else on the table that is a higher priority target.

For example, a Land Raider Crusader with Terminators is a terrifying target, and it may prompt your opponent to favor repositioning his units for an anti-LR shot rather than sitting in place and gunning down your marines.

However, at low points levels, this is an unadvisable tactic as you have too few points to invest in "terror units."

????????????????

I don't mean the land raider will kill them - I mean that EVERTHING ELSE will shoot at said squad.

HQ: Emperors champion, accept any challenge (140)

Elites:2X Venerable dreadnought, Multi Melta, Heavy flamer, Drop pod, Tank hunter , Extra armor (200)

Troops:10 initiates, power fist, rhino, melta gun , extra armor (230)

9 initiates , power fist, rhino ,plasma gun, extra armor, (220)

Heavy support N/A


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And how will everything else shoot the squa, i mean it can bu dont forget that everything else costs points and i will have things to combat them


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And how will everything else shoot the squad, i mean it can bu dont forget that everything else costs points and i will have things to combat them


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p.s what do you suggest as terror units?

.....

Not to be cheeky, but you HAVE played 40k before right?

have to go come on tommorow

Sorry my friend, but you really must not have much game experience to be as nieve as this.

If you drop pod a unit right in the thick of your opponent's lines, do you really think that they are not going to have some way of dealing with said squad?

Some armies can deep strike en masse and do it really well. Templars are most definately not one of those armies.

To awnser ur question no ot much, but ok they shoot/assault ur squad, they die, so what? Its 2 whatever points killed and while their doing that you do ur own shooting and killing.

But anyway, they arent in pods no more, that is what i was writing right now, but i remembered to chek if they have pod assault in google and they dont, but they CAN ASSAULT THE MOMENT THEY DISEMBARK, thus being safe from all shooting, and as for assault, well they speak for themselves.


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p.s liam, what exactly are these armies?


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Oh yeah, read this link http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/299899.page


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p.s Zytrider what makes you think bt are uncompetetive, does anyone else think so?
thanks all


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whait, i read it and someone said they cant so scrap the pod idea liam, what do you think about the second list?

Malice wrote:To awnser ur question no ot much, but ok they shoot/assault ur squad, they die, so what? Its 2 whatever points killed and while their doing that you do ur own shooting and killing.

But anyway, they arent in pods no more, that is what i was writing right now, but i remembered to chek if they have pod assault in google and they dont, but they CAN ASSAULT THE MOMENT THEY DISEMBARK, thus being safe from all shooting, and as for assault, well they speak for themselves.

Umm... no they cannot. They CANNOT assault the turn they deepstrike, which is why it's a bad idea with crusader squads. They will likely get to rapid fire at what they shoot at, but it's so not worth it with a black templars squad, which optimally should be wielding close combat weapons and bolt pistols.

Malice wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
p.s liam, what exactly are these armies?

Blood angels excell at this. Their jump pack themed armies all habve the descent of angels special rule, meaning they only scatter D6.

Vanilla lists can also do this role effectively as well, especially with squads of Sternguard.

Malice wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
p.s Zytrider what makes you think bt are uncompetetive, does anyone else think so?
thanks all

They tend to be uncompetitive below the 2000 points mark, because lots of their basic stuff is more expensive than their MEQ. Above 2000 though, i'd be confident of handing out a spanking to most players with a solid BT list.

Malice wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
whait, i read it and someone said they cant so scrap the pod idea liam, what do you think about the second list?

You can't take two venerable dreadnoughts in 1 detatchment.

Taking powerfists and meltaguns is (IMHO) the best combination of weapons to give a crusader squad, so i'd stick with this.

Thanks for ur constant help liam, where does it say i cant have 2 dread?

No, 2 VENERABLE dreadnoughts. You can take up to 3 regular ones, one of these can be a venerable.

yes thats what i meant , thanks

I've never played with BT's before, so not certain on their rules. I do have experience with running BA and Ultra's. My BA uses a hybrid strategy, mixing Razor/Rhino Squads with a JP assault squad. One technique you could use with the rhinos is to move up and stay in cover ( since not fast like BA you might need to use two turns for this) or pop smoke. The next turn your squad jumps out, moves six, and then gets to assault. The vehicle can move once the squad is out and moved also.

My Ultra's run a mostly Drop pod force. The trick is highly explosive turn one drops. On my turn one I drop two MM/DCCW dreads and a 10 man Sternguard squad ( with comib-melta, 2 melta's.) and a Librarian ( with Avenger and Gate). The drop pod assault rule makes this possible, if BT don't have this- then it is not worth trying to work it. My other squads are tac squads who don't really care what turn they land on. Since they can drop on/near objectives and run to them or drop in and blow away the few survivors. One trick is careful deployment when getting out of Drop pods. Try and make sure units have cover from enemy heavy weapons.

For BT I would think rhino rushing would be the best idea.
As you get more points, I would add in a LRC. Also it might be good to get some neophytes, then give you ablative wounds to soak up damage.

Malice wrote:
p.s Zytrider what makes you think bt are uncompetetive, does anyone else think so?

I say this because i play BT.

I have tried all incarnations of the Templars at all points levels over the years. They really only begin to become competitive at 2000pts, like liam said.

At 1000, its a bit of a crap shoot, and what really hurts them is the 50 point rhinos (as opposed to 35 for vanilla marines)

Thanks for the advice sir blayse, ztrynder what makes them competetive above 2000?

The fact that you can comfortably put 2 Crusader squads and a unit of Assault Terminators all in LRCs.

And at 2k, Templar Rhino Rush is able to get enough support units (Vindicators/Dreds) to let the rhinos get to where they need to go without too much of a problem.

And finally, at 2000, the footslogging BT army begins to shine because you can put a whole hell of a lot of guys on the table that run at your opponent when he/she shoots at you.

ty