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This is a proxy game to test out how dangerous Dark Eldar can be. Although there are many DE builds, I think this is one of the more competitive builds - a shooty DE MSU alpha-strike army.

I will be testing it with a new Tyranid build that I've been experimenting with very recently - biovores! It will only be my 3rd time using them, but I like what they can do so far.

I will be playing sometime this week and will post results later.

Without further ado, the lists:


2500 HIVE FLEET PANDORA (Mine)
Hive Tyrant - Heavy Venom Cannon, TL-Devourers - 210
1x Tyrant Guards - Lash Whips - 65
Hive Tyrant - Heavy Venom Cannon, TL-Devourers - 210
1x Tyrant Guards - Lash Whips - 65

3x Hive Guards - 150
3x Hive Guards - 150
2x Hive Guards - 100

Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs - 200
11 Termagants - 55
Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs - 200
10 Termagants - 50

Harpy - Cluster Spines, TL-Heavy Venom Cannon - 170
Harpy - Cluster Spines, TL-Heavy Venom Cannon - 170
Harpy - Cluster Spines, TL-Heavy Venom Cannon - 170

3x Biovores - 135
3x Biovores - 135
Tyrannofex - Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae, Rupture Cannon - 265

TOTAL - 2500



2500 DARK ELDAR
Asdrubael Vect

4x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blasters, Venom w/Flickerfield + 2x Splinter Cannons
4x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blasters, Venom w/Flickerfield + 2x Splinter Cannons
4x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blasters, Venom w/Flickerfield + 2x Splinter Cannons

10x Kabalite Warriors - Splinter Cannon, Raider w/Flickerfield
10x Kabalite Warriors - Splinter Cannon, Raider w/Flickerfield
10x Kabalite Warriors - Splinter Cannon, Raider w/Flickerfield
10x Kabalite Warriors - Splinter Cannon, Raider w/Flickerfield
10x Kabalite Warriors - Splinter Cannon, Raider w/Flickerfield
5x Kabalite Warriors - Shredder, Raider w/Flickerfield

6x Reavers - 2x Cluster Caltrops
6x Reavers - 2x Cluster Caltrops

Ravager - Flickerfield, Nightshield
Ravager - Flickerfield, Nightshield
Ravager - Flickerfield, Nightshield

TOTAL - 2493pts



How do you think my tyranids will do against this type of army?


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PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:


Dark Eldar:
His strategy should be simple enough. Just shoot and shoot some more. Don't disembark unless absolutely necessary. It's better to rapid-fire splinter rifles from the safety of the transport than to disembark and risk eating 3 pie plates from my biovores. Do not assault unless it is with Vect's unit. Target priority should be the tyrants and hive guards first and then the tervigons. Everything is should be secondary.

As customary, kill points should be the main disadvantage of DE. That hasn't changed from last edition. However, they are strong in objectives-based missions. Deployment-wise, DE don't care. They have enough mobility to get to almost anywhere on the board.


Tyranids:
I need to get my hive guards to within shooting range. Going first will help, but I don't believe that going first is everything. As a matter of fact, I believe that most likely I will be going 2nd. My strategy is just as simple. Deploy my whole army on the board, using the gants as a screening unit. Then move forwards and fire as a whole.

I'll have a tough time in Capture and Control, as my army is slow and will probably never reach his objective. Seize ground is probably even. While I don't have his mobility in reaching objectives, I'll probably have more scoring units than him thanks to my tervigons. Where I may have the advantage is in Annihilation...that is, if I don't get annihilated first.

It's going to boil down to a battle of guns, and in that department, he outnumbers me big time. I've lost my toughness advantage that I normally enjoy against MEQ armies, but I hope I have just enough to give the new DE a good battle.


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Mission: Seize Ground - 4 objectives
Deployment: Spearhead
Initiative: Tyranids, but then the sneaky Dark Elves steal it!


DEPLOYMENT:
There is an impassable hill in the center of the map which blocks LOS. Then there are 6 area terrains, 2 in each deployment zone and another 2 in the center to the right and left of the hill.

Note: All descriptions of positions are from the perspective of the tyranid player.

Tyranids deploy with the gaunts in front and the 2 hive tyrants on the outsides (the tyrant guards are in area terrain, thus giving the tyrant cover as well). On the right side (from tyranid perspective) is the tyrannofex, the unit of 2 hive guards (in area terrain) and 1 harpy. T-fex is using tyrant for cover and the harpy is using the t-fex for cover. Behind the left tyrant is another harpy. Finally, in the middle (between the 2 tyrants) are the hive guards and biovores. Behind the middle hive guards are the tervigons and the last harpy.

For Dark Eldar deployment, he basically breaks it into 2 halves. On the right side are 3 raiders and behind them, 2 venoms and 1 ravager. On the left side are 2 raiders and 1 venom. Behind them are 2 ravagers and the last raider (with 5 Kabalites and Vect). Between these 2 halves all the way forwards are the 2 units of reavers.

Dark Eldar steals the initiative with a natural '6'!


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Note: We made some mistakes while playing this game - me because I don't normally use some of the units like harpies and biovores and my brother because this is his first game with the new Dark Eldar. Some mistakes were:

- I forgot that biovore barrages were pinning. I finally remembered later in the game.

- I forgot that the harpies' heavy venom cannons were twin-linked for the entire game.

- I forgot to fire the biovores on my turn 1!

- He forgot about his pain tokens initially. He didn't keep track at first as several units fired at the same target. He did remember later in the game. I think probably 1 or 2 of his Kabalite Warriors should have gotten FNP (and maybe furious charge as well). Oh well, you snooze, you lose.


Also, even though this is an objectives game, I'm going to keep a tally on the kill points just to see how it would have turned out had we played annihilation.


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DE1
The reavers turbo-boost the full 36", dropping their caltrops and bladevanes on my 2 3-hive guard units. Thanks to Toughness 6, one unit loses 2W (losing 1 hive guard) and the other unit loses 3W (also losing 1 hive guard + 1W on another). All the other vehicles move 6" forwards to make sure they are within range to shoot.

It takes all 3 of the left ravagers, raiders and venom (and splinter cannon warrior squad inside) just to put 3W on my left tyrant and kill its tyrant guard. The 6 DE vehicles on the right manage to kill my right hive tyrant only as his tyrant guard made every single cover/armor save. They also fail to wound the right 2 hive guards.

In assault, the reaver units move another 6" away from my army.

DE: 2, Tyranids: 0


Tyranids 1
My whole army advances. Right tervigon spawns 12 gaunts and left tervigon 14. No doubles rolled. Spawned gaunts go after the 2 reaver units as does 2 harpies. The tervigons cast FNP on 2 units of hive guards. My left harpy takes 1W from jumping out of dangerous terrain.

My left tyrant fires it's heavy venom cannon at the middle venom and wrecks it, pinning the trueborn in the process. Hive guards stun 1 of the right venoms and explode another (out of 3 pens, flickerfield saved 1). 2 trueborns die in the explosion and the whole unit is pinned. The last unit of hive guards whiff, hitting only 1 out of 4 shots and rolling 1 for the penetration. 1 harpy shoots and scatters onto the pinned trueborns, killing another 1 (1 trueborn left). Despite cover, the tyrannofex stuns the right ravager. Finally, the gaunts and harpies open fire on the 2 reaver units. They kill 1 from 1 squad and 3 from the other, whole fail morale and fall back.

In this turn, I forget to fire my biovores.

In assault, the harpy and gaunts charge the 5-man reaver unit. He kills 2 gaunts while I kill 3 reavers. They then fail morale and fall back as well, essentially unable to regroup.

DE: 2, Tyranids: 2


DE2
Reavers continue to fall back, as the one who can regroup is still within 6" of my unit. While falling back, they take pot shots at my harpy and put 1W on it. The other DE vehicles shuffle a little, with the right raiders moving 6" to be within double-tap range of some of my right units.

It takes 2 of the left ravagers and 1 raider just to kill my hive tyrant out in the open with no FNP. Another 2 raiders and 1 splinter cannon put 1W on my left hive guards. Finally, on the right side, 2 raiders and 2 rapid-fire kabalite warrior units kill my right tervigon. From his death throes, 5 gaunts to his right and 4 gaunts to his left die as well. Luckily, they are within synapse range of my last synapse creature - the left tervigon. Uh oh! Things won't be looking too good for me if he dies. The last raider (the very right one) and crew fires at my right hive guards. Thanks to FNP, they only take 1W from 22 poisoned shots and 1 dark lance!

DE: 4, Tyranids: 2


Tyranids 2
My last tervigon spawns 14 gaunts and then becomes sterile. He then FNP's himself. Nids advance. The outside gaunts (by the reavers) pass their Instinctive Behaviour test and move towards an objective.

In shooting, my hive guards wreck 1 of the left raiders, explode the other left raider (2 warriors die but they are otherwise ok) and wreck 1 of the right raiders. It's crew gets pinned. Outside termagants fire at 3-man reaver unit, killing 2 so that they can no longer rally. One of my harpies fires at a raider, but its shot scatters back onto it, inflicting 1W to itself (forgot I was able to re-roll due to being twin-linked). T-fex fires at the right raider and explodes it, but all the wounded warriors make their cover saves! One biovore unit completely misses, but the other one causes 18 wounds on the right kabalite warriors in the crater, of which 6 dies.

In assault, the gaunts charge the single reaver and kill him, consolidating towards area terrain.

DE: 4, Tyranids: 7


DE3
The last remaining venom (on the right) moves up, and the trueborn disembark into the crater. Vect's raider moves flat-out forwards to just behind the impassable terrain. A couple of other vehicles shift around. Some of the infantry (trueborn) moves closer while others jockey into rapid-fire range. Kabalite warriors try to stay in terrain. Last reaver unit continues to fall back.

Then they open fire. The venom and trueborn blasters finish off the right hive guards. Another unit of trueborns (from the venom that was wrecked on Turn 1) fires at the left hive guards and kills 1. The 4-man warriors on the right shoot at and kill only 1 gaunt thanks to cover. 1 ravager puts 2W on the T-fex (3W left) while the other 2 ravagers team up on the tervigon....and completely whiff, failing to hurt it at all. The warriors in the right raider double-tap the nearby harpy (whose shot scattered back on itself the previous turn) and finish it off. Their raider than shoots at the T-fex and put yet another 1W on it (2W left). Finally, the 2 disembarked warrior squads on the left rapid-fires at the 2 closest termagant units. They go-to-ground out in the open, and 9 dies from one unit while 4 dies from the other.

DE: 6, Tyranids: 7


Tyranids 3
Tervigon FNP's itself again and some of the nids move. Outside gaunts fail their Instinctive Behavior this time, so they just sit there and fire at the fleeing reavers, wiping them out. It takes 2 units of hive guards firing at Vect's raider to blow it up, killing 1 warrior in the process. The T-fex fires at 1 of the left ravagers and explodes it. Now biovores fire. 1 biovore aims at a unit of trueborn and Vect's warriors. It scatters though...onto the unit of 10 warriors that were pinned last turn. 7 warriors die and they become pinned yet again. The other biovores fire at the same target (trueborns and Vect's warriors). 2 direct hits causes 3 trueborns and 3 warriors from Vect's squad to die. The single trueborn survivor fails morale and high-tails it out of there, unable to rally.

In assault, the lone tyrant guard is in range and furiously charges the right raider. My opponent may have forgotten about him as he didn't move his raider last turn. The tyrant guard proceeds to pen it twice and explode it. The explosion takes out 1 nearby trueborn, 1 nearby warrior from the squad of 4 warriors, and 3 warriors that were in the raider. They then fail their morale and fall back. Wow.

So far, my tyranids have destroyed 2 venoms, all 6 raiders and 1 ravager. As for the Dark Eldar, they have killed my 2 tyrants, 1 tervigon and 1 harpy as well as some hive guards and put wounds on my other monstrous creatures.

DE: 6, Tyranids: 12


DE4
Fleeing warriors fail to regroup but only fall back 4". The 3 Kabalite warriors embark onto the venom and it moves 12" towards his right objective and the ravager also moves to give cover to the venom. Other other ravager also moves as well. Vect splits off from the last warrior (with the shredder) to go after my units. The warrior then moves towards an objective and the trueborns move up.

In shooting, the trueborns kill the tyrant guard. The venom takes aim at the 4 gaunts near his objective and lets loose splinter fire. It kills 3 gaunts (thanks to cover) and the surviving gaunt falls back 11". The right ravager fires at the T-fex but completely whiffs, while the left ravager fires at the single hive guard and only manages to cause 1W to it. The 2 warrior squads team up and fires at the Tervigon, but they are out of double-tap range. Still they manage to cause 3W to it despite FNP.

In assault, Vect assaults unit of 2 hive guards and easily wipes them out. He then consolidates towards the tervigon.

DE: 8, Tyranids: 12


Tyranids 4
I need to stop Vect. Otherwise, he will probably run rampant through my army. The lone gaunt continues to fall back. Tervie FNP's himself and moves away from Vect. Biovores then surround Vect. 1 harpy moves towards the 3 trueborns on the right, and the other harpy moves towards the left ravager. The 2 smaller gaunt units move towards his 2 left warrior squads (and contest his objective), and my 12-gaunts unit covers my objective and gets ready to shoot at Vect.

Tervie fires a big blast (cluster spines) at one of his warrior squads, but it scatters back and kills 2 of 4 gaunts. The left harpy fails to hit the left ravager so the T-fex shoots at it as well and stuns it. The right harpy shoots and kills 2 of 3 trueborns. The biovores fire at the 2 left warrior units and kill 6 from 1 and 3 from the other (this unit went to ground).

Now to deal with Vect. Gaunts fire at him and causes 6W, of which he fails 1 and shorts out his shadow field. He does, however, make his FNP so doesn't lose a wound. Then my lone hive guard blows him away. Problem solved, thank you very much.

In assault, I decide not to assault his warriors with my gaunts, as he would've probably wiped them out. The left harpy is about 1" out of assault of his ravager. The right harpy assaults his lone trueborn and easily rips him apart.

DE: 8, Tyranids: 14


DE5
It is getting down to the wire. So far, I haven't mentioned too much about objectives, so here's the rundown. There are 4 objectives - 2 on my side and 2 on the DE side. Currently, DE owns both of their objectives and I have one on my side. The other objective on my side is contested by his kabalite warriors (2 squads) and my gaunts (also 2 squads). Though I am ahead in units destroyed, I need to be able to contest his objectives or blow his troops away. I also need to destroy his ravagers or they will be contesting my objective. Unfortunately, I don't have anything near his objectives besides 1 unit of termagants that is out of synapse range.

The fleeing Kabalite warriors fail morale for the 3rd time and flee off the board. On the right side, 1 trueborn, 3 warriors, 1 warrior with shredder and the ravager concentrate fire to remove my right harpy (the one that killed his trueborns last turn). The venom fires 12 poisoned shots at my gaunts....and kill only 1 due to cover. Over on the left side, his 4-warrior squad puts 2W on my left harpy (1W remaining). The other unit of warriors did not fire due to going-to-ground last turn.

DE: 9, Tyranids: 15


Tyranids 5
The lone gaunt falls back some more. The right gaunts fail their Instinctive Behaviour test again and stay put. Oh man, I really needed them to go towards his objective (where the warriors in the venom are claiming). My tervigon FNP's the gaunts on my objective, and they move forwards to try to capture both of the objectives. The harpy moves closer to both the ravager and his warriors on the objective. The T-fex move towards the venom on his objective, but he is a good turn away from contesting even if he is to run there (and if he survives).

Here's where I make a big mistake. I move my tervigon forwards towards his warriors on the objective. What I should've done, though, was to move him backwards towards the venom on his objective. Even though he was a million miles away, I should've done that to 1) provide synapse for my right gaunts should there be a next turn and 2) to protect my objective and block it off.

The T-fex shoots at and blows off one of the dark lances from the right ravager. Harpy fires at the left ravager, but he makes his flickerfield save (I think he only made 2 flickerfield saves all game). The hive guard wrecks the venom. Both biovores fire at the 3 warriors from the wrecked venom but only manage to kill 2 (one scattered away badly to form spore mines). Damn. I really needed to kill them. My gaunts shoot at his left warriors and only manage to kill 1 due to cover.

In assault, my last harpy assaults his stunned ravager and explodes it. No one is killed from the explosion.

DE: 9, Tyranids: 17


If the game was to end now, I would lose 2 to 1 as I failed to contest his objective or to kill off his troops on their objectives. We roll to see if the game continues and it does.


DE6
His warriors spread out a little. The lone warrior from the wrecked venom moves into the wreck for cover. The ravager moves to block off my gaunts in the case they go to contest.

In shooting, the single trueborn misses the T-fex, but the ravager doesn't. 2 dark lances cause 2W, thus killing the T-fex who was trying to contest. The lone warrior (with the splinter cannon) kill 1 gaunt. On the left side, the 4-warrior squad takes down the last harpy and the other 5-warrior unit wipes out the 3-gaunt squad.

DE: 12, Tyranids: 17


Tyranids 6
Tervigon casts Dominion and the lone, fleeing gaunt rallies. Right gaunt squad is still out of synapse range but passes their IB test this time and moves towards his objective.

The right gaunts, instead of running towards the objective, fire at the lone warrior and kill him. The hive guard misses the last ravager. The biovores only manage to kill 2 warriors on the left objective, but that is enough as they fail morale and fall back, unable to rally. The other gaunt shooting is useless.

He still has 1 unit of 4 warriors on the left objective (he had 2 before 1 ran away). I need to get them off it. My only choice left is to charge them with my 2-gaunt squad (I still have the large gaunt unit conga-lined between the 2 objectives). So the 2 brave gaunts charge. He whiffs and only kills 1 of the gaunts, and the single gaunt kill 1 warrior in return for a tied combat. However, he has to consolidate into my gaunt, thus taking him out of claiming range of his objective

I now hold 2 objectives, both on my side, and he only has 1 objective on his side. We roll to see if there will be a Turn 7 and there is.

DE: 12, Tyranids: 19


DE7
Not much left for him to do. He moves his ravager flat-out to contest my objective. If only I had moved my tervigon back and my biovores, I could have blocked him so that he couldn't have contested. His lone trueborn moves up, fires at my last hive guard and kills my best chance at destroying his ravager.

In assault, the 3 warriors wipe out my lone gaunt and consolidate into contesting range of the objective as well as cover.

He now has 1 objective and is contesting both of mine. I have none.

DE: 14, Tyranids: 19


Tyranids 7
In order to win, I need to do any 2 of the following:

1) Claim his right objective with my termagants.

2) Wipe out his left 3-warriors

3) Destroy the contesting ravager.

So:

1) My right gaunts fail the IB test. Doh! They sit tight and is out of range of the objective.

2) Gaunts shoot at the 3 warriors and kill 2. They would then assault him and tear him to shreds.

3) The tervigon charges the ravager....and misses completely!

In other shooting, the biovores kill off a unit of 1-warrior on his other objective, but he still has a unit of 2-warriors there (there was 2 squads claiming that objective).

DE: 14, Tyranids: 21


I now have the left objective, he has his objective and my objective is contested by his ravager.


DRAW!!!


Stay tuned for the post-game analysis.


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POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

That was a very close and intense game. It could have gone either ways. At the end of 5, DE was winning. At the end of 6, Tyranids were winning.

In the end, Dark Eldar were left with only the following units:

1 ravager
1 1-trueborn unit
1 2-warrior unit

Tyranids have the following still alive:

1 Tervigon
2 3-biovore units
3 termagant units


Dark Eldar:
DE was plagued by some bad rolling. His initial shooting didn't do as much damage as he should have. He was failing most of his flickerfield saves, though his cover saves were alright. Lastly, he was rolling high for his LD tests, failing both pinning and morale tests.

Strategy-wise, I think he did alright although he probably should have mobilised Vect much sooner. He did try to go after my hive guards with his reavers and some shooting, but I was rolling well for their saves. He also managed to take out 3 of my 4 synapse creatures early (by turn 2). If he could have taken out the last tervigon, I would have been in big trouble. Vect is scary, but he definitely needs a bodyguard unit. Doesn't have to be an uber-unit...just a unit of 9 warriors or wracks will probably suffice just as meat shields. He is truly deadly in cc.


Asdrubael Vect - B+ - I like Vect. He is a very dangerous character and absolutely necessary in a DE alpha strike list much as a hive tyrant with hive commander is necessary in a Tyranid all-reserves army. Plus, that guy is just downright frightening in assault. He is the Mephiston of the DE army, only better because he can hide in another unit.

Kabalite Trueborns - B+ - Very serviceable special weapons unit. Cheap and efficient. Too bad they're not scoring units like IG veterans, otherwise I would give them an A.

Kabalite Warriors - B+ - The bread and butter of the DE army. Cheap and with good mid-range firepower. I like them more equipped with splinter cannons as opposed to dark lances. This way, their transports can move and they can still shoot.

Reavers - C+ - A unit with great potential. Too bad they under-performed in this game. Such is the case when you under-estimate Toughness 6 units.

Raider - B - Dependable and fragile. Performed as expected.

Venom -A- - 12 poisoned shots with an effective 48" range is just plain disgusting. Give them a free Invuln save and you begin to see why they are so good.

Ravager - B+ - One of the few DE units that have gotten a major boost without a single point increase. Their role did change with the new codex. They are now dedicated AT or anti-MC units, but that's ok. Leave the infantry to splinter weaponry or one of the many dangerous DE assault units.



Tyranids:
I was rather pleasantly surprised at the performance of my nids. I rolled well this game and made a lot of cover saves. Also, almost every vehicle that my AT units shot at were killed (with the exception of the harpies, but then again, I forgot their guns were twin-linked). I took advantage of terrain, especially with the impassable terrain in the the middle of the board, to screen out the DE shooting as well as to protect my hive guards and biovores, who could fire without the need for LOS.


Hive Tyrant - C+ - Normally my most dangerous unit, I was kind of disappointed by my tyrants in this game, as the two of them combined managed to only take out 1 venom. However, they did absorb a large amount of shots that would have otherwise wreaked havoc on the rest of my army. Too bad the tyrant guards made all the cover saves while the hive tyrants could not. I think my opponent played it right by targeting them first.

Tyrant Guard - B+ - Did what they were supposed to, which was to protect the tyrant. Can't really blame them for the tyrants failing their cover saves. Destroying the raider and making its unit flee off the board was just icing on the cake. I wonder if I should've gotten rid of 1 harpy for another 2 tyrant guards + 1 hive guard. Might have been more effective overall.

Hive Guards - A+ - Outstanding. They killed 4 raiders and 2 venoms as well as Vect. Can't say enough about these guys against mech armies.

Tervigon - A- - While tervigons didn't really contribute a lot to Nid offense, what they did do is make the army much better on the whole. I could not have won this game if it weren't for the additional gaunts that they generated. Also, their FNP saved 1 unit of hive guards as well as the tervigon himself. Lastly, their synapse coverage allows for the rest of the army to function properly. Every decent nid army needs at least 1 tervigon.

Termagants - B+ - They didn't do what was expected of them....which was to die. That alone is enough to warrant a 'B'. The fact that they actually killed something (the 2 reaver units) is a bonus.

Harpy - B- - They helped to route both reaver units and killed 1 unit of trueborns and 1 ravager. Honestly, I was expecting them to do more, and they probably would have if only I hadn't forgotten that their guns were twin-linked. Still, their mobility makes them dangerous and a high priority target, which is fine with me. Anything to draw fire away from my hive guards and synapse creatures is a plus.

Biovores - A- - They killed their fair share of infantry, and that's a lot more than any other unit in my army. Add their cheap cost to the fact that no infantry unit is safe from them when they're in position (i.e. near the middle of the board) and I think they're going to be a regular in my Nid army from now on. However, a few bad scatters and plenty of cover downgraded their effectiveness slightly. Still a very good, often under-estimated unit.

Tyrannofex - B+ - I must say that this is the first positive experience that I have had with the T-fexes. In this game, he killed 1 raider and 1 ravager as well as stun a couple of vehicles. He also absorbed fire meant for some of my other important units. I will probably give him a few more tries in the future.


MVP's:

Dark Eldar:
Ravager - There really isn't any particular unit that stood out in this game, but I would probably give it to the ravager. Although their shooting wasn't excellent (due in part to me making a lot of cover saves), but they did apply a lot of pressure on my TMC's (Tyranid monstrous creatures). Also, the last ravager saved DE from a loss with it's last turn contesting of my objective.

Tyranids:
Hive Guards - Unlike DE, there is 1 unit that easily stood out in the tyranid army, and that's the hive guards. The key to beating DE is to take out their mobility. The hive guards did just that to make this a very competitive game.

If the DE list is meant as a "Take-All-Comers" list, it isn't terribly well-equipped with anti-tank - just six Dark Lances on the Raiders, and presumably three Dark Lances each for the Ravagers, leaving the DE with a total of fifteen... (Plus an additional three if Vect has his Raider... if not, waste of points in that army) which sounds like a lot, but most armies faced at that points level that are MSU/Mech will have nearly that number of armored vehicles (My 2500IG list fields at least nine Chimeras alone, not counting other vehicles). Furthermore, the Cluster Caltrops don't work against vehicles, if that's what the DE player is hoping by including them. They function like bladevanes, which only work against non-vehicle units. Against the Tyranid list, I expect it to do relatively well as there aren't any vehicles (And the DE can overwhelm anything with a good armor save with the massive number of poison shots the army can put out) but against an 2500 point mech list like Guard, or MEQ, the army would be in trouble.

Tyranid list is dead. WAAAY too much poison weaponry to survive more than a few turns.

However, the DE list is pretty exclusively tailored to beat them. A more all comers list would have the Trueborn with Blasters and thus still effective against TMCs, but not as specialized.

GhostRecon wrote:If the DE list is meant as a "Take-All-Comers" list, it isn't terribly well-equipped with anti-tank - just six Dark Lances on the Raiders, and presumably three Dark Lances each for the Ravagers, leaving the DE with a total of fifteen... (Plus an additional three if Vect has his Raider... if not, waste of points in that army) which sounds like a lot, but most armies faced at that points level that are MSU/Mech will have nearly that number of armored vehicles (My 2500IG list fields at least nine Chimeras alone, not counting other vehicles). Furthermore, the Cluster Caltrops don't work against vehicles, if that's what the DE player is hoping by including them. They function like bladevanes, which only work against non-vehicle units. Against the Tyranid list, I expect it to do relatively well as there aren't any vehicles (And the DE can overwhelm anything with a good armor save with the massive number of poison shots the army can put out) but against an 2500 point mech list like Guard, or MEQ, the army would be in trouble.

You are right. As an all-comer's list, the DE army bothers me. It is more like 1/3 AT and 2/3 anti-infantry. I will go back and balance it out somewhat.

Check out my battle report versus nids on my sig....

You need more Dark Lances to deal with Nids, which in turn will balance out your list better...

Tyranids don't stand a chance against the Dark Eldar.... Then again, nothing does

I've modified the DE list to include trueborn blasters.

BuFFo wrote:
Tyranids don't stand a chance against the Dark Eldar.... Then again, nothing does

We shall see. I'm betting that Nid resiliency will actually make it a close game, though I do consider them the underdog.

Your Tyranids do not have resiliency against Dark Eldar due to the amount of poisoned weaponry that Dark Eldar have.

All their 6 toughness and 6 wounds is for naught. Tervigons/Trygons mine as well be 6 marines glued together as far as splinter weaponry is concerned...

BuFFo wrote:Your Tyranids do not have resiliency against Dark Eldar due to the amount of poisoned weaponry that Dark Eldar have.

All their 6 toughness and 6 wounds is for naught. Tervigons/Trygons mine as well be 6 marines glued together as far as splinter weaponry is concerned...

The only saving grace for me is that they'll probably be out of range (at least for most of their units) with their splinter weaponry. Their raiders can only move 6" in order for them to fire, and by moving, they can only fire 12". As their splinter cannons are 6 shots while stationary, they'll probably remain stationary on turn 1 and wait for me to come to them (to get within range of their splinter rifles). That means their 1st turn alpha strike probably wouldn't be as bad as most think (as they won't really be able to use their splinter rifles) and that my nids will have a chance to strike back with the army mostly intact still.

I foresee awesome things from those Harpies, given that Raiders are amongst the absolute best units that they could be firing at.

The key will ve to make sure that when a DE unit becomes vulnerable, it is exterminated in very, very short order. Fortunately, you've taken a bucket of Biovores, and so this shouldn't be a problem. Whatever units end up forced out of transports should probably be their focused targets.

I agree that Nids will have a hard time vs. DE.
On the other hand, Hive Guard and Trygons can do some serious damage by shooting.

I totally don't see the point in the Reavers, if they have Heat Lances then ok (ignoring that this is a Nid list so they aren't as important) but without them they aren't very threatening. Blasters in the Warrior units would be nice if you can find the points and some half decent combat unit to support Vect would definitely be a good addition (even just some bodies around him so he doesn't get hit in the head with a S6+ weapon). At 2500pts its not a true alpha strike list with the Baron in there as well, not that you need him to make a good 2500pt list.

If all the vehicles had Night Shields (they definitely should at this points level imo) then this wouldn't be even remotely close. 18" range on your Hive Guard is not much fun, although Onslaught will help a bit. Obviously if the DE go first then the Nids are going to take a beating, but even if they go second the DE could conceivably still deploy on the board edge and only have to worry about the Tyrannofex and possibly the Harpies (Tyrants would be pushing as they are slower). Against lists with even moderate long ranged (48") firepower DE are often going to be forced into reserves. The Tyrannofex and Harpies probably need to find themselves cover if possible actually, the Tyrannofex doesn't have to worry too much about the poisoned shooting but both will get squashed in a single round from all those Lances.

As far as first turn firepower goes, all the Venoms will be in range turn 1 which is 36 poisoned shots = 1.5 dead Harpies. Unless the Nids are silly and deploy on the line (which against DE is a good way to get charged first turn and would also bring the Blasters into range) the mounted Warriors and Trueborn shouldn't get range until turn 2. That just leaves 15 Dark Lances which should squash at least another Harpy (would get both if they aren't in cover) or could take out the Tyrannofex if its out of cover. The initial return fire won't make much of a dent, but if you can hang around long enough and get the Hive Guard into range then the Nids should do fine (its a big if though).

I do applaud you for constantly running your Nids into really tough matchups though.

I feel as though the new DE are great at killing bugs, I've played 2 games against them so far at low point levels (750 and 925) while my friend builds up his force. The first game was an utter massacre, i took some MC's and they got chewed to pieces by agonizers and splinter weaponry. The game I played last night was a little closer, we played Cap/Control and it ended on a 1/1 draw, i had 6 KP to his 4, my list included much larger units of much smaller creatures (then the 4+ to wound hurts DE rather than helps) but It showed me that i need more hive guard...they are MVPs for sure.
Nightshields and flickerfields should be mandatory for all DE vehicles...My opponent didn't have points for the upgrades but had he utilized them I would not have had 3 of those 6 KPs i ended up with, my bio-weaponry simply would have been out of range.

I think the biggest problem the 'Nid list above is going to have with DE is the fact that by nature Tyranids excel at Close Combat, with shooting units only offering support at best. Focusing your entire army at shooting will really hurt if your units get locked up in CC. Harpies can barely defend themselves when assaulted with their measly 2 attacks each, same for hive guard. It's just something to consider. I am interested to see how the biovores do in this matchup, I have neglected fielding any since the new book came out. If they are worth anything i might pick up a couple more and run a brood of 3 sometime.

Good luck tyranids! (you'll need it....)

Powerguy wrote:I totally don't see the point in the Reavers, if they have Heat Lances then ok (ignoring that this is a Nid list so they aren't as important) but without them they aren't very threatening.

They're mainly an anti-infantry unit. I believe they're one of those often-under-estimated units that people overlook. Then they fly over you and bam! Your unit is mostly wiped out. Don't be fooled by the lack of heat lances. Bladevanes and cluster caltrops can do a lot more damage than their shooting or assault ever could.

Powerguy wrote:
Blasters in the Warrior units would be nice if you can find the points and some half decent combat unit to support Vect would definitely be a good addition (even just some bodies around him so he doesn't get hit in the head with a S6+ weapon). At 2500pts its not a true alpha strike list with the Baron in there as well, not that you need him to make a good 2500pt list.

This is primarily a MSU (multiple-small-units) list. It's goal is target saturation and maximum threat overloading. That's why I left out most of the upgrades and the deathstar units. The idea is destroying any 1 single unit will minimally impact the rest of the army, and will hardly cause a dent in its offensive capability. Vect's purpose in this list is 1) to increase the chance of going first and 2) to act as a counter-assault deterrent. That's why he doesn't need an expensive unit surrounding him. Because he is not a threat initially. If the enemy is firing at him, then they're not firing on a unit that can actually do damage. Win for DE.

Powerguy wrote:I do applaud you for constantly running your Nids into really tough matchups though.

Thanks. I enjoy a tough fight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tetrisphreak wrote:I feel as though the new DE are great at killing bugs

They probably are, as I am about to find out.

tetrisphreak wrote:
but It showed me that i need more hive guard...they are MVPs for sure.

And if the DE player is familiar with them at all, he would probably take them out first. But it takes a lot to take out 16 T6 wounds in cover.

tetrisphreak wrote:
Nightshields and flickerfields should be mandatory for all DE vehicles...My opponent didn't have points for the upgrades but had he utilized them I would not have had 3 of those 6 KPs i ended up with, my bio-weaponry simply would have been out of range.

Couldn't afford nightshields for all the transports, so had to settle for them on the ravagers only.

tetrisphreak wrote:
I think the biggest problem the 'Nid list above is going to have with DE is the fact that by nature Tyranids excel at Close Combat, with shooting units only offering support at best. Focusing your entire army at shooting will really hurt if your units get locked up in CC. Harpies can barely defend themselves when assaulted with their measly 2 attacks each, same for hive guard. It's just something to consider. I am interested to see how the biovores do in this matchup, I have neglected fielding any since the new book came out. If they are worth anything i might pick up a couple more and run a brood of 3 sometime.

That's why against really assaulty armies, I rely on tervigons to spawn screening gaunt units to delay those deathstar units. And the thing is, if you want to assault one of my units, prepare to face the whole army. My nids support each other and move almost as a single entity. I need to in order to take advantage of cover provided by the gaunts. This does, however, make my nids somewhat vulnerable to templates and blasts.

tetrisphreak wrote:Good luck tyranids! (you'll need it....)

Thanks.

The problem with using the Reavers as anti infantry is keeping them alive. You can fly over a unit and make a big mess of it but you will often end up being closer to the enemy than you would like and they will disappear as soon as something shoots or assaults them. Against Nids this is particularly problematic as they will often take up much of the board so you don't have space to zoom over them and land in safe areas.

Not saying you need a big unit of Incubi to run around with Vect, I agree that would be too much of a points sink and in AV10 vehicles its not a great plan. However Vect is too many points to only use to help you get the first turn (and relying on getting that 4+ is not a good plan anyway), he gives you a very potent counter assault but with T3 you don't want him running around by himself if you can help it. It doesn't have to be much, a small squad or Wyches even adding an Agoniser to a Warrior/Trueborn unit would be fine, you just need to have some bodies around him.

One of the charms of a MSU army is that nothing is so valuable that it must survive (besides scoring troops in an objective game). Each and every unit must be sacrificial, especially if sacrificing them will give you an advantage. Then if that unit is eliminated, it won't affect the offense much as there is another unit to take its place. They can start off by shooting their splinter rifles from range (as they are relentless, they can move and still fire 24"). Who is going to fire at 6 splinter rifles when splinter cannons and dark lances are so much more deadly. Then when the opportunity arises, turbo 36", take out a unit and be out of the enemy's assault range if done properly. I know that's what I would do against the hive guards.

I guess he could attach Vect to the 5 kabalite warriors with shredder. Who would want to shoot at them when there's a bazillion dark lances, blasters and splinter cannons aiming at them, not to mention super-fast bikes dropping knives and stuff at them.

Vect is frankly a terrible choice to simply take to try and steal initiative. What happens if you don't get it? You spend a tenth of your points in a unit that will most likely not do anything all game, since he has no unit and will die far too easily if he leaves cover.

He needs to either run with a squad or not run at all.

16 T6 wounds aren't hard to kill when I always wound on 4+.

Honestly, at that point range I feel like so many Warrior squads isn't the best use of your points. And if your opponent is moving 6" and trying to rapid fire every turn, he shouldn't expect to win against any army, even if it is a favorable matchup. The best way to run a poison weapon list imho is either Trueborn with Shardcarbines, Scourges, or Hellions. 12" Rapid Fire isn't nearly as good as 18" Assault.

vishra wrote:Vect is frankly a terrible choice to simply take to try and steal initiative. What happens if you don't get it? You spend a tenth of your points in a unit that will most likely not do anything all game, since he has no unit and will die far too easily if he leaves cover.

He needs to either run with a squad or not run at all.

Vect won't be alone. He'll most likely be with a unit of Trueborn or with the 5 Kabalite Warriors. Don't worry. He'll be safe. Why would I shoot at him initially when there are so many other more dangerous units around. Now if his unit was to go towards me and try to initiate an assault, then I would be forced to deal with him. Otherwise, if he hangs back, his unit should be safe.

I'm a long time nid player so I know that ur list is on edge against this type of DE list, that poison is guna tear you apart.
I have an unusual thought however, your list contains harpies, they can move 12 in, Charge em into his raiders! (after shooting)
Think about it, it may only have Str 5 but hey! It's a monstrous creature, and those Raiders are tin cans, so my thought is, Blast em then charge em!
As for the troops, what is to fear? you have a bucket of Biovores, just pin the sods xD

Hope this helps

The batrep has been updated. Please check the very 1st post.

*matthewbland282* wrote:I'm a long time nid player so I know that ur list is on edge against this type of DE list, that poison is guna tear you apart.
I have an unusual thought however, your list contains harpies, they can move 12 in, Charge em into his raiders! (after shooting)
Think about it, it may only have Str 5 but hey! It's a monstrous creature, and those Raiders are tin cans, so my thought is, Blast em then charge em!
As for the troops, what is to fear? you have a bucket of Biovores, just pin the sods xD

Hope this helps

That is my plan exactly. Move the harpies forwards, shoot and if there is a unit within range, assault! I would much rather he shoot at those alien birds than at my other, more dangerous units like my tyrant or hive guards.

So when do you actually plan on playing this game?

Oh and one more thing, you don't need the Tyrant guard, points are better served on armoured shell, that way even all that poison will bounce off your 2+ save.
As for harpies, good plan, people say monstrous creatures are a disease and that melta/lance are the cure, I say "Ok, you cure my Trygon while it's disemboweling you in melee! HAH!"

Battle report partially updated. See the very 1st post.

*matthewbland282* wrote:Oh and one more thing, you don't need the Tyrant guard, points are better served on armoured shell, that way even all that poison will bounce off your 2+ save.
As for harpies, good plan, people say monstrous creatures are a disease and that melta/lance are the cure, I say "Ok, you cure my Trygon while it's disemboweling you in melee! HAH!"

I prefer the tyrant guard as it can give my tyrant cover as well as an extra 2 wounds. Give him FNP and it's just as good as armoured shell. Also, armoured shell won't protect me from blasters and dark lances.

The battle report is now concluded. Please see post #1. Post-game analysis to come.

This was an awesome game, I am glad to see a Nid list played correctly, I played my mech vet IG against my brother who had nidzillaish build this weekend. he had two harpies, a flyrant, a trygon prime, a tyranofex, thee carnifexes and two tervigons.... it was a crazy game! My favorite part was seeing his 3 carnifexes smash into my three LR Punishers haha!

Btw the Reavers are not able to use the assault move if they turbo boost, it prevents them from performing any other actions that turn.

The post-game analysis is up. Please see post #1.

Red Corsair wrote:This was an awesome game, I am glad to see a Nid list played correctly, I played my mech vet IG against my brother who had nidzillaish build this weekend. he had two harpies, a flyrant, a trygon prime, a tyranofex, thee carnifexes and two tervigons.... it was a crazy game! My favorite part was seeing his 3 carnifexes smash into my three LR Punishers haha!

Thanks. I honestly think Tyranids are a very good army. Sure they may have problems against a few builds, but they also present problems to a lot more builds than they have problems with.

Guards can give nids problems. Then again, guards give every army problems. However, my nids have been pretty successful against guards, and I don't even bring a really shooty build against them. I do, however, bring 2 tyrants, 7-9 hive guards, 2 tervigons and 2-3 trygons against them. Next time, though, I'll probably take 1 tyrannofex and 2x3 biovores as my heavies against them.

Powerguy wrote:Btw the Reavers are not able to use the assault move if they turbo boost, it prevents them from performing any other actions that turn.

That was my mistake. I told him that he could move in his assault phase. I've since found out you can't after turbo-boosting.

Excellent game! I saw the DE list and thought "uh oh, that poor tyranid player is in for some hurt!" Then I saw the Tyranid list and thought "good lord, that's a lot of shooting. This might be quite the gunfest after all!"

I'm on the fence with the anti-infantry reaver units. 6 reavers with 2 using cluster caltrop (172 points) will average ~10 saves on T4 infantry. That's very respectable damage, certainly, but 6 T4 wounds with 3+ cover won't last long. Granted, it takes focus off the armada of raiders coming their way, but it's a pretty hefty pile of points. One flamer will often break the unit. For the record, the similar 6-man w/ 2 heat lances still forces a fairly respectable 6 saves with their bladevanes. I do so love buzzing a unit with reavers and softening them up before sending in some Wyches or incubi or something though.

Something I've started pondering is including a Blaster in my 10-man+splinter cannon warrior units. It adds a second dark lance shot against units within 24" of the raider (6" move, 18" shot), but I know this limits mobility, and my ability to justify moving raiders away from approaching forces (as in out to that 30-36" range), as I have to slow down for passengers to fire, and can't operate at the extreme dark lance ranges...

I think there's a lot of flexibility in the new DE codex. This build, with caltrop reavers, is just 1 competitive build. There are many others. I also like the idea of smaller reaver units with blasters or heat lances. In the future, we will definitely give them a try. This is just the first game that my brother has played using the new DE. I'm sure there's a million other combinations that he will want to try.

Also, while shooty reavers are absolutely viable, there's one big advantage that drive-by reavers have over shooty ones, and that's the 3+ cover. If you shoot, you have just a 5+ save (or 4+ cover). You fly-by, you have 3+ cover.

Blasters in warrior squads are definitely do-able. However, rather than mix the 2 in 1 squad (blasters and splinter cannons), we decided instead to group the blasters into their own units (trueborns) while leaving the warriors as pure anti-infantry.

jy2 wrote:Also, while shooty reavers are absolutely viable, there's one big advantage that drive-by reavers have over shooty ones, and that's the 3+ cover. If you shoot, you have just a 5+ save (or 4+ cover). You fly-by, you have 3+ cover.

very true. With the 6" assault move and reavers being skilled riders, it's pretty easy to get them their 4+ cover. Something else I just noticed about the bladevanes that I think is worth mentioning (I'm sure not everyone knew this) but you do have to turboboost (no hopping 12" over a unit and shooting them in the back for double-damage), and you basically have to turboboost in a straight line: you draw a line from the start and end points of the move to determine who can be hit, so no 18" over a unit, then 18" sideways to safety behind that building over there.

Right. Hopefully after the turbo-move, you land outside of the enemy assault range.

Unfortunately for my opponent, as he started 24" away from my units, he couldn't stay out of my assault range (even with the mistakenly-played extra 6" assault move). But he took a gamble to try to cripple my hive guard shooting. It would have been a good sacrifice if he had killed 1-2 more hive guards IMO.

Either that or get closer and risk getting bombarded by my biovores with barrages that ignore cover unless they're in area terrain or actually have cover from where the barrages land.