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Okay long story short a friend of mine said if I really want to pick a hard army go for broke, hence I decided to play Tomb Kings (I like them anyway) So I'm going to be getting some Tomb Kings soon, could anybody tell me a good starting point for them? Aside from overpriced crap skeletons I think their magic (which thanks to the FAQ I absolutely do not understand) is a key thing along with their heroes (until I fight my friends who happen to be affectionate towards fire from the start) So with that what are my options for the tomb kings and no I dont care if I win or lose but I also want to give my enemies a run for their money (sometimes)

I was actually thinking about them today, so I read through the army book. I think they could potentially have some devastating magic. With all the bound spells, and their incantations + casket of souls.

I'm not sure, but I think they would have to use the power dice for casting their bound spells.

The downside, is they do have crappy skeletons, but if you make a bunch of them shoot multiple times a turn, they can dent some stuff up for the tomb guard to clean up.

So as a base, maybe a couple lich priests, tomb king/prince, skeleton archers, ushabti (I just like the models) a couple screaming skull catapults, and tomb guard, fill to taste after that.

They don't use PD to incantate it's in the FAQ, in fact it gives TK magic a pretty thorough overhaul to make it work in 8th.

The do need to use PD for the bound items however, and you can get quite a few into your list.

CHariot heavy lists can do very well, as do the Khalida lists (always hitting on 5s is golden, and she makes the catapult fire twice g'teed) - just be wary of how fragile they are compared to VC lists.

For real giggles take a wizards hat at higher levels, stick it on a high liche. Then you get 2 random spells to use your power dice on, AND you can incant

Yeah I realise Tomb King Skeletons need a lower cost, on the bright side they have bows normally downfall is BS2 I was thinking of trying a Khalida list.

As for chariot heavy while yes chariots seem to be much better off for the Tomb Kings than anyone else my main concern is how will they be able to break those massive blocks of guys? Or would shooty chariots be the better idea which I'm leaning towards shooting chariots.

So their incantations do not require PD? Thats good, however I mean is their a limit to how many times I can cast those per guy, and what is the PD needed to stop them? I will definately consider putting a hat on my high liche but would that make him a lv.2 wizard or does he stay at lv.3? Also how are the random spells generated? (I would look in the big red book but my friend has it at his house and is reading it)

Also tombking Cavalry in or out?

Yes I would like to make my screaming skull catapult(s) shoot multiple times because that is just evil that and I think their shots are considered flamming and magical Also what about the bone giants? I know for one they will absorb much inevitable fire and 220points is a heafty investment however I think their unstoppable assault rule has potential to be able to solo larger blocks of units. Yes, no?

Yeah I saw how much more fragile my men are in comparison to the VC guys and it seems like the ability for TK to wage a war of attrition is nearly dead seeing how almost anyone can use the lore of life, but I guess that is where my other incantations come into play like being able to fight or shoot again (speaking of which can I use that incantation on a unit multiple times?)

ShadowZetki wrote:Also what about the bone giants? I know for one they will absorb much inevitable fire and 220points is a heafty investment however I think their unstoppable assault rule has potential to be able to solo larger blocks of units. Yes, no?

Sadly (or gladly not sure myself) no monster can really do that anymore, and it's especially risky with unstable ones.

BS2 when you ALWAYS hit on 5+ isnt a huge downfall.

They use a number of dice for incanting, dependent ontheir "level", and each Tombking/Prince/Liche/High Liche can incant a certain number of times.

For example you might be able to incant twice using 1D6 each time. Opponents dispel as if it were a normal spell.

This means they ALWAYS cast - even at values below 1! This means that, at worst, if the opponent wants to stop it he has to ALWAYS use at least 1 dispel dice. It also means your magic is MUCH more reliable -7th ed reliability. If you roll double-1 for winds of magic you can STILL make every incantation you would do normally, you just dont have power dice to spend on bound items. You also dont get to add your wizard level to casting - only dispelling.

The random spells are:randomly pick lore, generate spells as normal for a level 2. Easy And he is a level 2, hence why it is on a spare high liche - especially as you dont want your Hierophant (think: VC General) High Liche from being stupid and stumbling forward.....

Also look at the Casket. It always "casts" on a 2D6 power level, always last (TK have a strict casting order that you MUST follow) - and given that LOS is "true" now means a LOT more units can see the Light Of Death.

Bowmen are the great. Because they don't suffer any penalties. Meaning, long range and you are the equal to normal humans, long range and walking and you hit like an elf, long range, moving and firing at skirmishers in hard cover while storm banner is in effect...yeah you hit on 5+.

Their magic at higher points are horrendous, add in the wizard hat and it's a nightmare to face.

Sadly you can only use the healing spell several times on the same unit, so no guys moving 30+" each turn.

nosferatu1001 wrote:BS2 when you ALWAYS hit on 5+ isnt a huge downfall.

They use a number of dice for incanting, dependent ontheir "level", and each Tombking/Prince/Liche/High Liche can incant a certain number of times.

For example you might be able to incant twice using 1D6 each time. Opponents dispel as if it were a normal spell.

This means they ALWAYS cast - even at values below 1! This means that, at worst, if the opponent wants to stop it he has to ALWAYS use at least 1 dispel dice. It also means your magic is MUCH more reliable -7th ed reliability. If you roll double-1 for winds of magic you can STILL make every incantation you would do normally, you just dont have power dice to spend on bound items. You also dont get to add your wizard level to casting - only dispelling.

The random spells are:randomly pick lore, generate spells as normal for a level 2. Easy And he is a level 2, hence why it is on a spare high liche - especially as you dont want your Hierophant (think: VC General) High Liche from being stupid and stumbling forward.....

Also look at the Casket. It always "casts" on a 2D6 power level, always last (TK have a strict casting order that you MUST follow) - and given that LOS is "true" now means a LOT more units can see the Light Of Death.

Yeah considering penalties everyone else usually suffers when shooting I dont consider their bowmen too bad anymore besides I tend to get lucky with shooting anyway.

So like they each have a set amount of incants they can cast per magic phase and I do not need to use PD to cast but they need to use their dice to try and stop my magic? I'm trying to get the hang of it. I have no problem not adding my wizard lv for casting I mean I figure I can try and pump out more magic than they can shutdown right? However I do care about stopping their magic. Yeah I would do that with a spare high liche and all but those guys are expensive and I'm pretty cheap as far as lord/hero spending goes. Yeah I saw the TK casting order I like it.

The casket of souls sounds very fun, I havent gotten the book yet (I'm gonna pick it up and some guys today) could you explain what the light of death even does? I mean it sounds like a must have for the TK

Iit is pretty much a banshee howl on any unit that can see the casket, and the casket itself give a rather nasty penalty to any mage.

Going character heavy is actually pretty decent with Tomb Kings (and makes for a cheaper army ), as their incanations scale much much better than the other magic spells.
For example, in my "beta" 2,5k army list I throw 5 single dice incanations (2 kings+a prince), and 3 dual dice (2 priests+casket), I also got the wizard hat. Let's put it like this...good luck stopping that.

Now that sounds like alot of fun, well I have a match against bretts later today or tomorrow how will the casket do against them?

Well then sounds like I'm going to need alot of priests, so does this mean my incantations can reinforce my men beyond their starting size?
Hmm I'm definately going to like my magic, everyone else.. not so much

Casket will be anything from decent to great against brets, ignoring their armour is a big deal! Though expect that most will save anything between 1 and 3 dices for the casket (which is a GOOD thing. )

Lot's of priests...not so much, IMO fill lords first, then look at heroes for the casket and some odd fighty guys.
High priests and Kings are both great. Priests and Princes are decent, but I like Princes better, because of their survivability and fightyness. (The only reason I got 2 priests is that I want the casket, but don't want the Hierophant bound to it.)

Also, for army composition, remeber that you can make one guy a scroll caddy ala 7th because of the Broch of the Great Desert.

hmm yes their armor is very, very annoying. Honestly I dont expect many dispell dice to be used against me period, seeing how my friend has a phobia of magic ever sense I used feedback scroll(or something like that) and there was the time when his mage got two 6's and his mage blew up killing his knights of the realm and some nearby grail knights

Okay, so with TK it is sounding like I want to max my lord point cost, and take a prince or 2 and maybe a priest if I dont want my high priest bound to the casket? Hmm scroll caddy sounds fun, I'll have to try that when my little brother gets a Slann for his lizardmen.

So that still dosent inform me if my incants can reinforce the sqaud past its starting size or not

<= To me

Sorry about that. No you can't reinforce beyond the starting number, only heal them. And you mostly want to do the shooting/Movement spell anyway.

the nice thing with adding Khalida to a shooty list is that, statistically, 1/2 your hits will auto wound. and you can just keep shooting and shooting and shooting...

depending on the number of chanters you can get every of your skelli units to fire twice per phase.


Volly fire is deadly as well as bows can get ever more shots then other more powerful weapons like Crossbows and Handgunners. more shots=more poisen wounds.

Yeah I mostly would use the moving/shooting thing, also with the moving/shooting thingy I know I can cast it on a catapult that hasnt moved now would I be able to use this spell more than once on the warmachine? And with righteous smiting does this mean that when I'm locked in combat I can get some free attacks of without them being able to strike back?

well, the extra attacks are in addition to your regular attacks.


moving the catapult: if it allows you to cast it multiple times on the same unit i don't see why not unless the catapult has a rule exempting it.

Grey Templar wrote:well, the extra attacks are in addition to your regular attacks.


moving the catapult: if it allows you to cast it multiple times on the same unit i don't see why not unless the catapult has a rule exempting it.

Oh that is depressing

Well it dosent say I cant cast it more than once on the screaming skull catapult I just cant have moved it to cast on it, all this said and taken into consideration I should slap my friends for saying TK were junk when I asked about them (of course I'm going to destroy them and laugh first)

ShadowZetki wrote:Well it dosent say I cant cast it more than once on the screaming skull catapult I just cant have moved it to cast on it

It does say it under each incantation, however.

It can affect each unit once per turn.

Well, check the last line on smiting on why you can't cast it twice on a warmachine (it's still a unit and smiting is once oer unit.) (NOT TO KIRSANTH )

Hmm..something more...yeah!

The only guys in your whole army that will have a save worth something will be the heroes. The highest save otherwise is the bone giant (3+) and then it's only 5+...
But you can do some funny things with Tomb Kings old items, my favorite being combining Armour of Destiny and Collar of Shapesh, for a dual unmodifiable 4+ save. On a T5/4W character that is rather hard...

Oscarius wrote:Well, check the last line on smiting on why you can't cast it twice on a warmachine (it's still a unit and smiting is once oer unit.) (NOT TO KIRSANTH )

Hmm..something more...yeah!

The only guys in your whole army that will have a save worth something will be the heroes. The highest save otherwise is the bone giant (3+) and then it's only 5+...
But you can do some funny things with Tomb Kings old items, my favorite being combining Armour of Destiny and Collar of Shapesh, for a dual unmodifiable 4+ save. On a T5/4W character that is rather hard...

I dont have the book yet but I am going to get it today so yeah. Man that just crushed my dreams but oh well.

Hmm, I dont mind my guys have crap armor the way I see it, is they are all expendable (just expensive too) so I dont mind if my men get thrashed. Hmm that does sound fun, and I'm sofar loving the collar of shapesh(provided there is a unit close enough to have the wounds transfered to) Also what would ideal skeleton sizes be? because I'm pretty bad with this part, when I see something like 10+ for model count or something like that, I really REALLY want to just take a massive sqaud (even though I shouldnt)

Well, skellies are 10-40.

Quite frankly, I'm in the opinion that you should look away from the HW/Shield skellies. Take archers, between 20 and 30, with banner and muscian. Tomb Guards can do the fighting for just a little bit more than the core skellies.

a bunch of 30 strong bow armed Skellitons in Khalida list will make your opponent cry.


deploy 2 deep for 15x2 means all of the guys get to shoot. 30 shots needing 5+ to hit means 10 hits. 5 will be auto-wounding and the other 5 will need to roll.

if you get to fire twice per turn while moving then you can wear down enemy troops pretty well for your Tombguard and Ushabti(frakkin awsome) to finish them off.

Grey Templar wrote:a bunch of 30 strong bow armed Skellitons in Khalida list will make your opponent cry.


deploy 2 deep for 15x2 means all of the guys get to shoot. 30 shots needing 5+ to hit means 10 hits. 5 will be auto-wounding and the other 5 will need to roll.

if you get to fire twice per turn while moving then you can wear down enemy troops pretty well for your Tombguard and Ushabti(frakkin awsome) to finish them off.

I did not know the belssing of the asp was 2pts those skellies are 10points

nosferatu1001 wrote:The do need to use PD for the bound items however, and you can get quite a few into your list.

Not really. There's:

Banner of the undying legion. Only works if there are wounds to heal, but definitely worth taking.

Ruby ring of ruin. Must have!

Enekil's Kanopi. Only works if the enemy has bound spells in play for you to dispel...and it really just does anything special if he has more than one or a very expensive one, since you can use PD for a direct dispel of a RIP spell anyway. Very situational.

Staff of ravening. Very expensive, and you need a lich, preferably on horseback.

Four...of which two are no-brainers to take, one is marginal because it's a nearly 50 point arcane item, and the kanopi is nearly useless. That's not what I call "quite a few."

nosferatu1001 wrote: CHariot heavy lists can do very well

Nein!!!! Chariots are great for driving off enemy fast cav and decent for raiding the enemy backfield, but "chariot heavy lists" don't work in 8th. Light chariots are decent support units, not main line combatants.

nosferatu1001 wrote:For real giggles take a wizards hat at higher levels, stick it on a high liche. Then you get 2 random spells to use your power dice on, AND you can incant

Nooooooo!!!! Put the hat on a king (for one thing, kings are cheaper than HLPs) and give him a great weapon. Now you have a L2 wizard with an AWESOME statline who will crush most heroes and many lords in melee, and he still gets his two incantations on top of the spells. Still, I'd rather rely on bound spells to use my PD, and give the king some sexy armor to make him an untouchable melee combatant (either 2+/4++ or rerollable 2+). In a big enough game (3k), I'd take the fighty king, the hatted king, and the HLP, but below that points level, it's the fighty king and the HLP for me, and just the fighty king in 1000 point games.