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GW makes its revenue from its miniatures.
It's not a media based company so naturally the chanel is of little importance at the moment.

They are not trying to use it as a way of making money, they are simply covering running costs.



GW does not need marketing tools, they have plenty that work perfectly.
If they struggled with marketing they wouldn't be such a successful company.




Can I please ask what company you run though?
As from what your saying a company that pulls in millions every year with ease is doing it wrong.

This is very much the same reason they don't advertise on regular television and never really have done.


While social media and networks are great for advertising, they don't need to force advertising down everyone's throats.
It will simply annoy people.

I don't know how old you are, but GW marketing issues are pretty much known in the industry. They were even braggin of not doing market research a few years ago (which is not too surprising when you consider how much of a disaster the launch of AOS was)

And yes, a company can be succcesful, even if they have bad marketing

As for the last art of your post, I fail to see the logic in it. Making their twitch accessible to everyone does not amount to forcing it down people throats,

Making it free does not, but using it for advertising as you suggest does.
It's a chanel for content, not for trying to make people buy.


And I would be old enough to know GW pretty well by now.
So not quite sure why age has anything to do with it.

AOS was an initial disaster because they took a well loved game and removed it, then replaced it with something that played very differently.
It had nothing to do with marketing or market research.

They could drop 40k and give it the same treatment.
All the research and advertising/marketing in the world would not make it a success.

AoS is however a highly popular game now, to the point it's drawing in higher revenue than WHFB was.



So while it was an initial disaster, they have actually turned it into a worthwhile investment.

While I hated what was done, I do enjoy AoS and still play WHFB.



All the time they are a highly successful company they don't really care about having to change advertising methods.

A lot of recent social media from GW has been more about connecting with the fan Base than marketing, which was a good step to take.

We don't really know if AOS is really a success or not (I venture toward no, but that's for another discussion). They stated in the financials that it was selling better than WHFB was in the last years, but since we don't know which years they compared it to, we can't make any conclusion. For example, since they released a starter set (which have a huge impact on the sales), the most valid comparaison would be to know if the first year of AOS sold more than the first year of WHFB 8th edition. Coupled with the fact that a lot of these sales came from the last chance to buy, or in other words, WHFB players who wanted to complete their armies, (GW even said that these sales exceed their expectation) and that WHQ was also released during that span (which is not really an AOS product), makes it impossible to draw any conclusion on the success of AOS based on only this statement. Not to mention that AOS was also accompanied by an increase in the number of release, so a better measure of its success would actually be the ROI it had compared to the ROI WHFB had.

Making it free would amount to treating it as a promotional tool. I'm not saying that they should spam every email address with ads of 40k, only to make it accessible to everyone who's potentially interested in their product. And yes, even now, they are trying to sell you a product. It's not an independant third party giving you impartial opinions, but a GW creature which goal is to present GW product in the best possible light

I wonder if people have actually considered that Twitch itself is the reason old content is paid for? My understanding is that Twitch is completely built around the concept of live streaming and I believe that it at least used to be the case that videos that were more than a week old were deleted. Now I'm not sure if thats true any more, but if it is it could easily be the case that it costs GW more money to keep those videos up for more than a week, hence the need for a subscription service.

It has nothing to do with what years they compared it to.
WHFB was struggling badly in its last year's.
Storm of chaos was a last ditch attempt to pull it back, which failed in most areas due to stupidly priced models.

As long as sales picked up from there it's a success as they turned a product that was failing into something successful.

You can't compare it to fantasys golden years as it was great, there were no issues and nothing needed to be done.

They only made the change as it got stale and wasn't making enough profit.



Don't get me wrong, as a company it's first and foremost goal is to make money, just as with any company.
But they don't need a chanel to do this.
That chanel is simply for players as a sort of premium service for content.

If they were to make it free and run it as a promotional tool for new players, they'd lose the content they have and replace it with advertising.
That would then cause the fans to leave as even if it's free, no one wants to watch hours of adverts and next to no content.

So yes they could hook new players, but they'd lose the interest of the ones that are already with them.




I do feel they need a connection like this with their fan Base as well.
With all the constant changes and releases of discounted box sets, they are moving in the right direction.

GoC is a great example of a discount set that is multi use.

You buy it for either a stand alone game or the models, either way your buying it.
This then leads to people starting a DE army as they can do so with a pretty good discount.



While they could do more advertising, they can simply boost sales by carrying on with such box sets just as easily and be guaranteed to sell them.

it has everything to do with the years they are comparing it to. To be considered a succes, AOS need to have a better return investment that WHFB had. You can't simply compare the sales in which AOS had numerous releases and big boxes releases, to ones in which WHFB barely had any (not to mention that a lot of the AOS sales had actually nothing to do with AOS)

And again, I don't see why they would have to change anything about the content of their Twitch channel if they made it free and considered it a marketing tools. Using it as a marketing tool doesnt mean that they have to hire cheesy crest smile sellers, and continuously shove ads in tour face. It only means that the Twitch channel would not be viewed as a profit center (hence the subscription model), only as a marketing expense. Nothing else has to change

The idea of a new system was because the old one was failing.

Say WHFB dragged in 5 mill this year and 6 the year before.
If AoS netted over 5 mill then profits would be increasing.
It'd a success if it outsells the product before it.

Fantasy stopped as it wasn't returning enough profit and it's rules were falling apart due to bloating.


Doesn't matter how much it made back in 96 or 97, those years are irrelevant as it was doing fine.
Change was only needed when it was failing.
So you can't run back 10 years or so and try and compare it to that lol.
The game was rolling downhill badly for the last 5 years or so of its life.




To use something as an advertising or marketing tool then certain conditions tent would be required.
Have you watched any of the feeds atall?
It's nowhere near marketing most of the time.
You get the odd bit like the GoC that could be seen as such, but nothing else.



On a side note, want to drop me any replies in a PM please?
Think we are dragging this one way OT.

you're not making the distinction between accounting cost and economical cost. FIrst thing is strictly numerical, while the other also consider what the company renounce to when taking a decision. For example, if releasing a new edition of WHFB would have been more proftable than AOS, AOS would have to be considered a failure, even if it resulted it higher sale compared to the last years of WHFB.

Agreed that we are steering off topic.

 streetsamurai wrote:
Yeah, but that's because you were already a GW customer. Persons who are not currently GW customers but who could potentially be in the future, sure as hell won't pay to see these vids, and these vids would be excellent recruitment tools.

Anyway, we're getting off-topic

You know there are 100 million subscribers on twitch? They are tapping into a huge user base of people who can watch their videos. Many who likely don't play their games yet.

Does this have anything to Gangs of Commorragh? If not take it to a different forum

I hope that there might be some interesting new background mixed in with the rules.

Am I imagining things but is the skin of the Dark Eldar in the box art rather more blue/grey than we have seen before?

Is it on utube yet?

I would like more info on the game

I am NOT paying $5 to watch a gameplay video

I DO NOT have amazon prime or whatever that is

I could NOT watch it live as it was around 3am in the morning

I do have money right here ready to go buy the product but GW dont want to sell it to me by letting me watch their gameplay video.

Stuff it, maybe I should spend my money on GW competitors?

Am I ignorant of English or has the GW obsession with making things trademark-able now extended to verbs? Their image for GoC on the main page states "Roving gangs of Dark Eldar vy for supremacy in this boxed game" but, to my knowledge and the handful of dictionaries I've briefly consulted online, there is no word "Vy" even in slang; it's abbreviations and phonetic accents at best. There IS the verb "vie" for compete which when conjugated can become "Vying" which I suspect is what they meant, so the most obvious conclusion is someone in their graphics department perhaps should have studied language a bit harder in school. Still, with GW you can never be sure when dumb things like that are just plain old mistakes and when it's an intentional paranoid alteration to the word for IP purposes...

Image for those who have religious objections to GW's website:


On the actual game itself, I'm quite tempted to pick it up along with a Skysplinter box to round out my DE. Main thing holding me back is I don't even have a color scheme for the near-complete DE I already have...

The verb is 'vie' - 1.compete eagerly with someone in order to do or achieve something: . Vying is correct.present participle.

I'm thinking seriously about pre-ordering from the FGS today.
Considering they give a 20% discount on GW, I think that means I'll get this game for $48.

 MangoMadness wrote:

Is it on utube yet?

I would like more info on the game

I am NOT paying $5 to watch a gameplay video

I DO NOT have amazon prime or whatever that is

I could NOT watch it live as it was around 3am in the morning

I do have money right here ready to go buy the product but GW dont want to sell it to me by letting me watch their gameplay video.

Stuff it, maybe I should spend my money on GW competitors?

Odd viewpoint. Wait for reviews from the usual gaming YouTubers when the game is actually released. Otherwise, to be honest, an hour-long playthrough with the designers talking everything through isn't gonna be a quick, exciting purchase decision making moment for you.

I'm really unsure what people are expecting this channel to be!

I don't understand this pages conversation...

I looked up the game with what was online. The presentation pretty much sold itself. ( Sorry, but seeing someone play the game sold the game.)

Have a soft spot for fast moving killers, and have some scenery ideas that I want to make out for the game. Issue I have with the game is the scummy looking cardstock scenery. I'll be making a few of those out of foam board and cardstock, while I base that stuff in the box, and add some gubbins to it.

Krinsath- Don't read too much into it.
As Hanlon said- " Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." GW have never been much for proofreading, playtesting, or form, so by now it is expected that the game is going to be a little rough coming out of the gate. Send them a PM, and let them know. They didn't do it on purpose, to be sure.

On topic, I'll be adding in a few gladiators to my gangs, as well as plenty of add ons. I sold my old Dark Eldars, so this is a good way for me to get a few back on the table, seeing as I am getting back to the Necromunda, Gorkamorka, and some other skirmish stuff. Reviewed Gangs of New Y'ork last night, and am going through first season Copper. I can see a good table with plenty of spyers, some ledges, and a add of a dark elder skiff or two in there, for some Barsoom level sky fights and air pirate actions.

Start with the jet bikes, I'll add on the Dark elder, the gladiators, and some lone Chaos Space marines in there, as well as a Sorcerer of Tzeench, who has been trolling around the game room, looking for a reason to get on the table.

Depending on how the game looks in house, I'll also pick up a few of those naked slave types, and have them as objective markers...

To be honest, I see the game as a great jumping off point for a campaign, and using these guys in a skirmish level against all comers, Orks, Eldar, Humans.... I can see using some slave troopers, or rebel scum in there, as you take a gang down the road of chaos, and add in some good adds, such as demons, or chaos space marine attachments, who can ultimately turn on you, and give the gang more options to kill.

I see so much potential in this one, much the same as Gorkamorka was for Orks. I can even see getting a piece or two of Plexiglass, and adding two or three levels to the table for additional air levels.

 silent25 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Yeah, but that's because you were already a GW customer. Persons who are not currently GW customers but who could potentially be in the future, sure as hell won't pay to see these vids, and these vids would be excellent recruitment tools.

Anyway, we're getting off-topic

You know there are 100 million subscribers on twitch? They are tapping into a huge user base of people who can watch their videos. Many who likely don't play their games yet.

which only reinforce my point, since by putting the videos behing a paywall, they are largely restricting the number of persons that will see them., which result in greatly reducing the potential visibility that Twitch could give them. Hence why it's a terrible beancounter decision, cause the insignificant revenu GW is getting by these subscription, is largely offset by the visibility they lose.

 Jackal wrote:
It has nothing to do with what years they compared it to.
WHFB was struggling badly in its last year's.
Storm of chaos was a last ditch attempt to pull it back, which failed in most areas due to stupidly priced models.

As long as sales picked up from there it's a success as they turned a product that was failing into something successful.

You can't compare it to fantasys golden years as it was great, there were no issues and nothing needed to be done.

They only made the change as it got stale and wasn't making enough profit.



Don't get me wrong, as a company it's first and foremost goal is to make money, just as with any company.
But they don't need a chanel to do this.
That chanel is simply for players as a sort of premium service for content.

If they were to make it free and run it as a promotional tool for new players, they'd lose the content they have and replace it with advertising.
That would then cause the fans to leave as even if it's free, no one wants to watch hours of adverts and next to no content.

So yes they could hook new players, but they'd lose the interest of the ones that are already with them.




I do feel they need a connection like this with their fan Base as well.
With all the constant changes and releases of discounted box sets, they are moving in the right direction.

GoC is a great example of a discount set that is multi use.

You buy it for either a stand alone game or the models, either way your buying it.
This then leads to people starting a DE army as they can do so with a pretty good discount.



While they could do more advertising, they can simply boost sales by carrying on with such box sets just as easily and be guaranteed to sell them.

You both do realize a better comparison would be when Kirby ran both Fantasy and AoS. He was leading both into the ground. This is why Fantasy was killed in his time, AoS was fumbling and two previous Fantasy factions and lots of other faction models got axed. Compare how well each did when Kirby ran them rather than comparing a competent store head turning things around vs an incompetent one destroying Fantasy.

I also still fail to see AoS doing well. I suppose people might be buying kits but i rarely if ever see games of AoS being played at the GW store and that is where they seem to be exclusively played outside of 40k. Keep in mind no matter how bad Fantasy was doing it lived for 28 years (with hardcore fans refusing to let it die) vs a product that has been alive less than 2 years. You can't say it's doing better than fantasy like that. Perhaps AoS is just fumbling with its first steps like a newborn infant but as it was when it came out was very bare bones. There's no way Fantasy fans wouldn't be mad with how GW handled things esp. making Fantasy fans out to be the bad guy.

--------

In other news even if you take the hellions out of the picture and just want the reaver jetbikes in this set it's still a deal. I almost wonder if i could sell the hellions off on ebay if i buy more than one of these game sets. I'd probably price em low like 12 dollars or less. Unless there's a massive rules change hellions will keep being one of the worst units which is honestly pretty pathetic.

You and everyone else will be selling hellions super cheap, though, once this boxed set comes out. Witness the nose dive that Harlequin troupes took when Death Masque came out.

Back on topic, I ordered this from the GS today. Perhaps interestingly of three stores that carry GW within an hour's drive, one hadn't heard it was coming out and another said they had given it a pass so I had to be a special order.

Checked out the stream from WHTV, this game looks like a ton of fun. Really tempted even though I have no interested in Dark Eldar models.

.. back on topic ?

Thanks.

Is there an online source for good colour schemes for these factions? Are they part of cabals, or are they independent little gangs and you just paint them whatever?

God damnit so I need to buy this and the Triumvirate?

I'm going to be poooor!

Ben2 wrote:
Is there an online source for good colour schemes for these factions? Are they part of cabals, or are they independent little gangs and you just paint them whatever?

here :

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/01/24/gangs-of-commorragh-showcase-leigh/



is the 1st ..? ... article they have really.
seems to me you can do what thou wilt.

..odss on how long until we see one with bottles on his fingers clinking then together ..?

There must be a lot of you out there vying for a slice of the Dark City’s skyline, as this game has proven very popular, and our online store has currently sold out. But don’t worry – we’re making more; if you haven’t pre-ordered yours already, you can pick Gangs of Commorragh up in shops this weekend, or go HERE and click on ‘Email Me’ to get a notification when they become available online again.
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blimey.

They aren't Kabals, I remember while they were talking in the twitch stream they asked something like that and because they were painting Gangs, they really went to town with the colour schemes. They showed lots of different schemes, both for bikes and Helions, the book should have those pictures.

On the live stream they had a gang painted up which had a captive chained up on his reaver - can't wait for that one to pop up so we can have a proper look

 reds8n wrote:

Ben2 wrote:
Is there an online source for good colour schemes for these factions? Are they part of cabals, or are they independent little gangs and you just paint them whatever?

here :

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/01/24/gangs-of-commorragh-showcase-leigh/



is the 1st ..? ... article they have really.
seems to me you can do what thou wilt.

..odss on how long until we see one with bottles on his fingers clinking then together ..?

There must be a lot of you out there vying for a slice of the Dark City’s skyline, as this game has proven very popular, and our online store has currently sold out. But don’t worry – we’re making more; if you haven’t pre-ordered yours already, you can pick Gangs of Commorragh up in shops this weekend, or go HERE and click on ‘Email Me’ to get a notification when they become available online again.
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blimey.

The photography is terrible on those models. Either the lighting is too bright, the camera settings just wrong or both, but it's all washed out.

GW suck at photography sometimes, we know this.

It selling out is good news and implies the game will have some legs.

Here are some sources for some more Dark Eldar terrain. That garbage that they have with the game looks like simple card stock, that really needs real spire terrain...

https://wildboarblog.wordpress.com/tutorials/terrain-tutorials/dark-eldar-dark-elf-terrain-tutorial/

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=145190.0

I'm really interested in getting these guys up off the ground.