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With all the Grey Knight rumours coming out recently, it made me want to give my Daemonhunters another go, especially against one of the newer codices to see if they can still compete. My brother, who liked my Blood Angels list that I was supposed to use against a Dark Eldar Wyche Cult army (that game got postponed), decided to use my BA All-Infantry list. I think I've got my work cut out against him....




Oops! Forgot the scouts in the picture.


2500 ALL-INFANTRY BLOOD ANGELS
Mephiston

9x Assault Terminators - 3x LC's, 6x TH/SS's
9x Assault Terminators - 3x LC's, 6x TH/SS's
3x Sanguinary Priests - 1 w/Terminator armor, 2 w/Jump Pack & Power Weapon

10x Assault Marines - 2x Meltas, Power Fist
10x Assault Marines - 2x Meltas, Power Fist
10x Assault Marines - 2x Meltas, Power Fist
5x Scouts - Camo cloaks, Snipers, 1x Missile Launcher

5x Devastators - 4x Missile Launchers
5x Devastators - 4x Missile Launchers
5x Devastators - 4x Missile Launchers

TOTAL - 2490pts



The eversore assassin is proxied as a vindicare.


2500 DAEMONHUNTERS (Mine)
Grey Knight Grandmaster - Icon, Incinerator, Psychic Hood
7x Grey Knight Terminator retinue - Incinerator
Brother-Captain Stern
4x Grey Knight Terminator retinue - Incinerator

Inquisitor - Emperor's Tarot, Incinerator
3x Warriors - 3x Plasmas
Vindicare

5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers - 2x Meltas, Rhino
5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers - 2x Meltas, Rhino
5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers - 2x Meltas, Rhino
5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers - 2x Plasmas, Rhino
5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers - 2x Plasmas, Rhino

Grey Knight Land Raider - Dozer, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
Grey Knight Land Raider - Dozer, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
Grey Knight Land Raider Crusader - Dozer, Smoke Launchers

TOTAL - 2501pts


Last time I pitted my Daemonhunters against one of the newer armies was against Tyranids. It was close battle even though I lost (battle report found here). Can Daemonhunters still compete against one of the newer armies?

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I think your opponent really needs a Librarian with the Shield of Sanguinas abilty to cut down on the plasma losses he is going to face...

I have to give this to the meched up GK, it just seems like a more balanced setup.

No Mystics?

They'd come in pretty handy against DoA!

calypso2ts wrote:I think your opponent really needs a Librarian with the Shield of Sanguinas abilty to cut down on the plasma losses he is going to face...

I have to give this to the meched up GK, it just seems like a more balanced setup.

The way I normally play it is to use screening units. Normally this would be the assault terminators, but because they are slow as molasses, you need to "nominate" 1 unit of assault marines as the "sacrificial" unit. That unit will have to "take one for the team" if there is no other cover that they can use.

As for my knights, I'm trying to translate a 3rd edition army into a 5th edition play-style by meching up as well as giving them a few more bodies. I feel that it is more balanced as well. However, I've got no ranged shooting. When I'm close enough to unleash my damage, so is he. Let's see how well DH can do.

Monster Rain wrote:No Mystics?

They'd come in pretty handy against DoA!

Mystics are over-rated. The only time they're good is in an IG army as allies. Come on in and let me drop a demolisher or 5 plasma cannon shots on you. In a DH army, not as effective.

DoA is also over-rated. A BA army relying on DoA against any army with pie plates or hammer units (i.e. my 2 HQ units) will lose those units that come in. It's much, much better to start off your army together and move in as a cohesive whole.

Well, I disagree but I don't want to derail the thread over it. Good luck!

I've used Mystics many, many times, both with my Daemonhunters as well as with my Imperial Guards and also my Space Wolves! While I have had a couple of games with my DH in which they have helped out, that usually occurs only when playing against people not familiar with them at all. It's much harder to use them successfully against a player who knows what they can do.

But mainly, I was going for more troops and special weapons, so I left my mystics at home.

Also, I am slightly biased against DoA and that's because everytime I've played against a BA player using DoA, I've eaten him up. Then again, my army is usually balanced enough that I can handle a few deepstriking units. It's only when almost the entire army comes in when I have problems (i.e. Tyranids all-reserve army or IG with astropaths).

jy2 wrote:... you need to "nominate" 1 unit of assault marines as the "sacrificial" unit. That unit will have to "take one for the team" if there is no other cover that they can use.

I agree that is what I usually do when I play Daemons. I play pure slaanesh so one unit of nettes usually takes one for the team.

It definitely looks like it would play as an updated army. The cost of IST is actually quite reasonable.

PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:


Daemonhunters:
While I don't normally fear terminators without chainfists, I do fear furiously-charging feel-no-pain S9 thunderhammers. Couple that with 3 dual-melta, highly-mobile FNP assault units and I don't know if my land raiders will survive. If they do, I think I can pull off an upset. If not, then I'll probably lose big. I cannot match-up in a direct confrontation with his units, so the key to this game is to out-maneuver him. While he has the mobility to keep up with me, his hammer units - his assault terminators - are slow as molasses. I need to take advantage of that and try to isolate his assault marines so that I can take them out. In short, I think my only chances of winning will depend if:

1) I can take out all his scoring units, or

2) I can take out his ability to harm my land raiders. That means to eliminate his melta squads and the sanguinary priests who give his terminators furious charge.

Seize Ground, I would say is fairly even. I may have more scoring units, but my scoring units are more easily killed and he can combat squad if needed. With Capture and Control, I believe he has a slight advantage especially if he can disable my land raiders. Annihilation definitely favors the Blood Angels with their fewer kill points and more durable units.

Deployment-wise, I think for once, I would like Dawn of War. But that's because he has devastators. Don't want them to camp in cover and get good shooting angles on my rhinos. Pitched battle would be my least favorite deployment as his terminators would probably reach me the fastest.


Blood Angels:
In my opinion, the key to him winning is to keep his army together and to destroy my land raiders. If he wants to sacrifice his assault squads to destroy my land raiders, I will chew them up in retaliation. It may be a good trade-off for him though. De-mech me, lose his scoring unit, but next turn his hammer units kill mine. He could use Descent of Angels to drop his troops up close, but IMO that would be a big gamble. Firstly, I know how to play against deep-striking armies. I would deploy much differently if I knew he was deepstriking. Secondly, his assault marines are not guaranteed to incapacitate my LR's even if they were to land where he wanted. Third, they may be coming in without the support of his terminators, who do not have DoA. Lastly, my HQ units would just tear through his assault marines like a hot knife through butter just as his terminators would probably tear through mine.

So it comes down to me having to destroy his AT or scoring units versus him having to destroy my LR's and then mop up. Hmmm...I think Daemonhunters are going to have the tougher battle here. Not impossible, just tougher. Much tougher.

such a tease ... I look forward to your batrep, they're always a great read

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:such a tease ... I look forward to your batrep, they're always a great read

Thanks. I tend to look at it more as a build-up for suspense.

Interesting matchup as always. Can't wait to see the report

Mission: Capture & Control
Deployment: Dawn of War
Initiative: Daemonhunters


DEPLOYMENT:


Daemonhunters deploy 1 plasma-stormtroopers in rhino. Blood Angels deploy 1 assault squad, Mephiston behind them and the scout squad in cover and on their objective.


Daemonhunter objective in the lower right corner.


BA objective, with scouts in cover.

Blood Angels fail to steal the initiative.


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DAEMONHUNTER 1

DH movement. No shooting.


BLOOD ANGELS 1


BA come in and run. No shooting.


DAEMONHUNTER 2

I go aggressively after his assault marines and advance.


Both HQ's disembark.

I kill a couple of models with shooting, but nothing of significance.


I am only able to assault the front squad, easily wipe them out and consolidate back. Uh oh....have I fallen into a trap? Was that unit meant to bait me?


BLOOD ANGELS 2

Death approaches from above!


I don't know if you can consider this a lucky break, but his right assault squad wrecks my land raider with meltas despite me popping smoke (BTW, grey knight smoke launchers reduce pens to glances). Now he can't multi-charge me. He also puts 1W on my Grandmaster (on the left) with shooting.


One of his devastators wreck my rhino on my objective.


Charge! I fail to block all of Mephiston's powers, though Mephiston does perils on 1 attempt.


Very luckily for me, Mephiston whiffs on most of his attacks, only killing 2 GKT's despite S10 and re-rolling on the hits. His assault squad, despite furious charge and their power fist, only manage to kill another 1 GKT. In return, I whiff as well, only killing 1 assault marine and putting 2W on Mephiston (2W left) for a drawn combat.

Actually, I take it back. I won combat, because I also killed the Sanguinary Priest in that squad. But we still remain locked in combat.


To be continued....

"intermission"

Why did Mephiston give himself Str 10?

Str 6 already wounds Marines on a 2+ and it's not like he needed ID since he appears to have aimed for the Terminators anyway.

grayspark wrote:Why did Mephiston give himself Str 10?

Str 6 already wounds Marines on a 2+ and it's not like he needed ID since he appears to have aimed for the Terminators anyway.

Because S10 will insta-gib my Grandmaster. It's more reliable than trying to force weapon him and then getting blocked by my psychic hood. Keep in mind that my Grandmaster is with a retinue and so can still be wounded even if Mephiston isn't in base with him (basically, he's a glorified sergeant until the retinue gets wiped out, when he then reverts back to IC status). Granted, I'd have to allocate the wound on him, but if Mephiston wounded enough models that every model needed to take a save, then he has a chance to Insta-kill my GKGM.

DAEMONHUNTER 3

My Inquisitor heads for his objective.


Stern's unit moves towards his assault marines.

Shooting is not so good. The only shooting of note was that my Vindicare did manage to take out his Terminator Sanguinary Priest. That was big for me.


Stern's unit then assaults his other assault squad and wipe them out, including his Sanguinary Priest. I only lose 1 terminator and Stern takes 1W. In the left combat, I believe I blocked Mephiston's prefered enemy psychic power, kill a couple of assault marines and put another 1W on Mephiston (it might've been 1W inflicted last turn and 2W this turn). He, in turn, kill 2 of my GKT's only and I win combat (I believe by 1). The assault marines stick around, but Mephiston fails his leadership and high-tails it out of there. I pile into his assault marines and am within 6" of Mephiston. Meanwhile, Stern's unit rolls crappy on their consolidation so instead moves forwards.

That was a big turn for me. I've killed all his Sanguinary Priests and could potentially wipe out all his assault marines next turn.


BLOOD ANGELS 3
His terminators move up. In shooting, his devastators immobilise, weapon destroy and stun my right rhino and weapon destroy and shake another rhino.


Terminator dogpile!


He wipes out both HQ units. I did manage to wipe out his assault marines and kill 1 terminator. The right terminators then consolidate 6" towards my objective and the left unit towards his objective.


DAEMONHUNTER 4

I make a move towards my objective as I try to "head him off at the pass". My healthy rhino immobilises itself on terrain.


Melta-IST's disembark from the immobilised/stunned rhino and head towards my objective as well.


My Inquisitor tank shocks his scouts to contest his objective.


In shooting, my Vindicare takes out a fleeing Mephiston. Nobody turns his back on me, and I mean NOBODY!!!


BLOOD ANGELS 4
For some reason, I didn't take many pictures this turn.


His terminators head towards my objective. He isn't sure if he would make it into assault with my IST's, as part of his squad was still in terrain, so he decides to run instead and rolls a 6. Turns out he would've made it into assault after all...if only he had opted to assault.

His other terminators run towards my land raider on his objective. I believe the only thing his shooting did was to shake my land raider.


DAEMONHUNTER 5

My land raider crusader zooms forward another 12" and my IST's screen out his terminators. My other IST's on my objective move out a little so that they can shoot his terminators.


My other rhino also immobilises itself on terrain, so everyone disembarks from their transports and moves/runs towards my objective.


My land raider moves and out comes my Inquisitor and his retinue.


Concentrated fire takes out 3 terminators here....


....and wipes out his last scoring unit there.


BLOOD ANGELS 5
He's in big trouble. He has no more scoring units. The only thing he can do is to tie, and that is only if his terminators can make it to my objective to contest.


His terminators go to take revenge and multi-charge, wiping out my Inquisitor's unit.



He has no choice here but to go through my screening unit and easily does so. After consolidation, he is still out of contesting range.

If the game ends now, Blood Angels lose. We roll the dice to see if there is a Turn 6 and.....



To be concluded....


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To recap:


I've killed off his scouts so there is no scoring unit on his objective.


My IST's are claiming my objective and his terminators need another turn to reach them.


We roll to see if there is a Turn 6 and the roll turns out to be a '1'. The game ends.



VICTORY TO THE DAEMONHUNTERS!!!


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POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

DAEMONHUNTERS:
In the end, I still had 4 scoring units, 2 land raiders, 4 rhinos (3 immobilized) and my vindicare still alive. If we were playing kill points, I would have given out 9 KP's and lost.

I won because I achieved both of my objectives, which was to take out his scoring units and also his capability to harm my land raiders. From then on, it was just a matter of protecting my objective from his terminators. We both played aggressively, and we both baited each other...him with his assault marines and me with my land raiders. It just happened that I came out on top as Mephiston whiffed in cc with my knights for 2 assault phases. Mephiston and the assault squad should have done a lot more damage than what they did. Overall, I'm very pleased with the performance of my daemonhunters this game.

MVP:
Grandmaster, Stern + Terminators - I would have to give it to my HQ's and their retinues. They wiped out his 3 assault squads and 2 sanguinary priests as well as broke Mephiston. They were my hammer units, and they delivered just enough to give me the win.


BLOOD ANGELS:
In the end, he had remaining: 2 units of assault terminators and 3 squads of devastators. He gave out only 8 KP's and would have won had this been annihilation.

He lost because he wasn't able to achieve his objective, which should have been to take out the mobility of my land raiders. Personally, I think he was a little over-aggressive with his assault marines. I would've been a little more conservative with them and wait for his assault terminators to catch up. I might have even left 1 unit of assault marines behind to deal with the inevitable land raider-contest. His terminators did do some damage, but by that time, it was already too late. At that point, my HQ's had already achieved what I had wanted and only had to sacrifice themselves to slow down his terminators.

MVP:
Assault terminators - They did the most damage, killing about 1K of my army in both HQ units as well as my Inquisitor's unit. That was probably his only bright spot in this game.



As my Daemonhunters have beaten the Blood Angels, they have earned the right and will be taking the BA's place in their battle against Dark Eldar next game.

Nice Report.

jy2 wrote:

grayspark wrote:Why did Mephiston give himself Str 10?

Str 6 already wounds Marines on a 2+ and it's not like he needed ID since he appears to have aimed for the Terminators anyway.

Because S10 will insta-gib my Grandmaster. It's more reliable than trying to force weapon him and then getting blocked by my psychic hood. Keep in mind that my Grandmaster is with a retinue and so can still be wounded even if Mephiston isn't in base with him (basically, he's a glorified sergeant until the retinue gets wiped out, when he then reverts back to IC status). Granted, I'd have to allocate the wound on him, but if Mephiston wounded enough models that every model needed to take a save, then he has a chance to Insta-kill my GKGM.

Ah, thanks. I didn't know that the Terminators that accompany him were a retinue.

I thought it was just like having a squad with you.

Grey Knights and Witch Hunters are tricky with their retinues for the time being. They only become an IC when the whole retinue dies..

Great report, I thought it might end similar to that, although I am surprised you ended up charging him, I figured you were going to setup a huge multiassault to smash assault marines, get the GKGM in b2b with Meph and force a ton of no retreat onto some terminators.

GKGM should get smashed by Mephiston actually, sure you have a decent shot a killing him instantly but to do that you actually have to get a chance to strike. Mephiston is going to strike first thanks to I7 and can either ID the GM with S10 or with the Force Weapon. With a retinue you might manage it, but you would likely have to sacrifice 3-4 Grey Knight Terminators to do it, which isn't a great plan.

calypso2ts wrote:Grey Knights and Witch Hunters are tricky with their retinues for the time being. They only become an IC when the whole retinue dies..

Great report, I thought it might end similar to that, although I am surprised you ended up charging him, I figured you were going to setup a huge multiassault to smash assault marines, get the GKGM in b2b with Meph and force a ton of no retreat onto some terminators.

I was thinking about that, but then his assault marines would've also had a better chance to get within melta range of my land raiders and his terminators would be that much closer to my objective, so I decided to go aggressive.

My main goal was to destroy his melta-squads while preserving my land raiders. I was ready to sacrifice my HQ's to do just that. You could say that just as he baited me with his assault squad, I also baited him with my exposed GKT's.

BTW, I cannot force No Retreat saves on his marines because terminators cannot sweep. His units automatically flee if they fail morale against my GKT's. Also, I don't want to get into cc with his terminators as I would surely lose.

Powerguy wrote:GKGM should get smashed by Mephiston actually, sure you have a decent shot a killing him instantly but to do that you actually have to get a chance to strike. Mephiston is going to strike first thanks to I7 and can either ID the GM with S10 or with the Force Weapon. With a retinue you might manage it, but you would likely have to sacrifice 3-4 Grey Knight Terminators to do it, which isn't a great plan.

Yeah. I got lucky that Mephiston whiffed (and that I made of couple of 5+ invulns), but there was just no avoiding Mephiston, not especially if I wanted to go after his troops. I was just hoping that I could psychic hood his powers to minimize the damage.

As long as his assault squads were involved, I didn't care. Besides, I had a little insurance policy for Mephiston....my vindicare! If I needed to, I would've shot him in combat with the round that does 2W.