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Local player has been running this build for some time and it is scary good. I have blood angels, IG, nids, dark angels, marines, tau, eldar, and orkses. How do i put this guy in his place??

roughly:

prime with 2 x boneswords, adrenal, deathspitter

2 x zoanthropes
lictor

3 x 12 genestealers
9 shooty talon warriors

5 raveners

trygon adrenal regenerate

He outflanks the genestealers and he is a very good general. It is like 22-1-2 against solid players.

Thoughts?

A tank or two with a Str8 Pie Plate will make short work of those Zoans, Raveners and Warriors. Lots of Autocannons/Heavy Bolters will take care of the Genestealers. Some plasma to finish off the Trygon.

If we are tailoring:

Company Command Squad
2xFlamers, 2xMeltaguns, Officer of the Fleet, Chimera w/Heavy Bolter and Heavy Flamer
195 Points

Marbo
65 Points

Veteran Squad
Meltagun, 2xFlamers
90 Points

Veteran Squad
Meltagun, 2xFlamers
90 Points

Veteran Squad
Meltagun, 2xFlamers
90 Points

Veteran Squad
Meltagun, 2xFlamers, Chimera w/Heavy Bolter and Heavy Flamer
145 Points

Veteran Squad
Meltagun, 2xFlamers, Chimera w/Heavy Bolter and Heavy Flamer
145 Points

Vendetta
130 Points

Vendetta
130 Points

Vendetta
130 Points

Manticore
160 Points

Manticore
160 Points

1500 Points

Master of the Fleet makes his outflanking really suck. Manticores and Marbo reduce the Warriors to nothing really quick. Vendettas eliminate Thropes and Trygon. All your troops can handle the 'stealers and possibly do some damage to the trygon/warriors. Chimeras have HBs instead of Multi-lasers for the AP4, but Multi-lasers could work too.

genestealers lose to flamers (particularly to mobile ones on vehicles), being shot while out of cover, and while charging relatively fighty units in cover.

zoes, trygons, raveners and warriors lose to S8+ shooting like missiles, meltas and lascannons. The raveners and warriors in particular hate high strength pie plates like vindicators and battle cannons; multiple instant death'ing saves per turn=uber effective.

Just remember, almost the entire army is without any form of grenades; you'll strike first from cover. Combined with their usually mediocre save (see 5+ raveners/genestealers, even 4+ warriors aren't much), even big units of guard hiding in terrain can slap a fair few down.

Any mech list. The only ranged anti tank is S5, or an unreliable short range LD check and you still have to roll to hit with it.

As a nid player I really hate Hellhounds.

The trygon is the unit keeping this list together, take it out,and you should have a field day. His entire army is very, very vulnerable to manticores, take at least 2.

I'd consider a mech Eldar list like this (mine):

wuestenfux wrote:I'd consider a mech Eldar list like this (mine):

Yeah, I can totally see what wargear ect that is in that list...hell I can barely see that you have 2 DA squads


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but yeah, any type of Mech list would cause sever problems vs a list like his.

tedurur wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:I'd consider a mech Eldar list like this (mine):

Yeah, I can totally see what wargear ect that is in that list...hell I can barely see that you have 2 DA squads


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but yeah, any type of Mech list would cause sever problems vs a list like his.

3? (1man?) warwalkers with dual shuriken cannons
2 (5 man) Firedragon squads in waveserpents (with TL shuriken cannons)
1 (10 man) Dire Avengers (with exarch dual DAC, blade strorm) in waveserpent ( TL scatter laser)
1 (10 man) Dire Avengers (exarch dire sword, deffend) in waveserpent ( TL scatter laser)
1 Farseer + 8 warlocks (+ embolden, destructor, enhance conceal?) + waveserpent (with TL shuriken cannons)

Its not hard to tell what everything is.

Take 9 hellhounds and see him sad face

Echoing what others have said, but with more more detail:

Any of your marine armies, or a guard army *fully mechanized* should be able to destroy this nid army.

Why? Look at his nid list. The only thing that can threaten even an AR11 rhino in shooting is the zoanthropes. Everything else in the army has to assault a rhino to be able to damage it, which is extremely difficult for nids to pull off when a vehicle is moving over 6" and they need 6s to hit it.

You can't skimp on the transports, though. Everything needs to be inside a steel box, because anything standing out in the open will be assaulted and destroyed.

Personally, I'd take vanilla space marines. At 1500 you can have 2-4 tac squads in rhinos or razorbacks, three dreads, three dakka predators, and an assortment of speeders. You want your army led by a librarian with null zone, to counter the zoanthropes. Max out krak missiles on typhoon speeders and tac squads, and include flamers & combiflamers in tac squads. If you take razorbacks, put combi-flamers on the sergeants of your 5-man units, and put either las/plasma or TL las on the turret. Autocannons or assault cannons on the dreads, and include some DCCWs.

Deploy in a castle at center of your own table edge, leaving enough space between vehicles to bail out if your rhinos/razors get popped, but not enough room for a trygon or lictor to deepstrike inside your castle. Put the preds on the outside ring of your castle so they can shoot their sponsons, tac squads can shoot out the hatches over the tops of the preds (or razor turrets can shoot over). Dreads go between the preds & rhinos, with enough space between vehicles for them to run out when the time comes.

Then just wait for him to come to you.

-Zoans have to close to 24" to shoot, which puts them in range of your psychic hood, cutting their firepower in half. When they're in range, drop a null zone and then light them up with fire from the predators. They get no armor saves against the heavy bolters and autocannons, and with null zone they need to reroll their 3++ save when they pass, reducing it to somewhat less than 50% effectiveness. The zoans will very likely not get more than a single shot off before they are taken out.

-The raveners will probably arrive at your line by turn 2. You may have to let them charge a predator (they'll have a hard time killing it, but might get lucky with all those auto-hits if you haven't moved, especially if they have rending). But either way, once they're close enough, charge the raveners with one of your dreadnoughts. That will effectively take them out of the game, since they can't hurt it. If your dread has a DCCW, you'll be instakilling 1-2 per turn, which may cause them to break and get run down if they're not in synapse, or will rack up bonus no retreat wounds if they are.

-If the trygon is deepstriking, you have pretty much one turn to kill it. When it shows up, shoot it with everything in your army. This is where typhoon speeders especially shine, since they can move 12" to draw a line of sight around cover, then fire 2 missiles each that wound the trygon on 2's with no armor save. If the trygon survives a turn of shooting it may be able to charge one of your vehicles, then you get to countercharge it with your dreads. It will probably kill one, but if you have brought it down to only a couple of wounds, it will die to their DCCWs, wounding on 2's with no armor save.
If the trygon deploys on the table, you have a couple of turns to shoot at it, although you might have to deal more with cover. But if it reaches your lines, you can still countercharge with dreads. Remember to make him make his instinctive behavior tests on the trygon if it isn't in synapse.

-The genestealers will start entering on turn 2, but if you've deployed properly they won't be able to get a charge until turn 3. You can either wait for them to come to you and then countercharge them with dreads (again, taking them out of the game) or drive your flamer-equipped transports up to them, disembark, and flame/rapid-fire them. If possible, tank-shock them into a bunch before you flame, and use multiple flamers from different squads. You should be able to finish off the last few stealers in HtH (when they charge you) with minimal casualties.

If you get to this point, where you've handled the immediate threats of the zoans, trygon, genestealers and raveners, now you're just looking at a lot of expensive warriors slogging across the board with str5 guns that can't really hurt your tanks consistently, and a lictor that's really just a distraction and not a threat. Shoot them to death at your leisure (use flamers on the lictor) and/or run for the objectives.

Inigo Montoya wrote:Local player has been running this build for some time and it is scary good. I have blood angels, IG, nids, dark angels, marines, tau, eldar, and orkses. How do i put this guy in his place??

roughly:

prime with 2 x boneswords, adrenal, deathspitter

2 x zoanthropes
lictor

3 x 12 genestealers
9 shooty talon warriors

5 raveners

trygon adrenal regenerate

He outflanks the genestealers and he is a very good general. It is like 22-1-2 against solid players.

Thoughts?

Soft list: no hiveguard, has a lictor, and has raveners. Sounds like the problem is the nid player is really good, and might be parcticing games with no hive guard. Focus more on tactics than lists and try to pick up on some of the finer points of what he is doing.

Gunline IG would most likely blow it out of the water, take officer of fleet and turtle up in the middle

2 Vendettas to drop the trygon than work on zoans
2xLeman Russ to work on warriors
2x vets 3x flamers chimera 1 on each side of the "turtle" formation
2-3 vets 3xmg chimera in the front
1-2 manticores in the back

with Nids its best to not go towards them other than to lock up something annoying like zoans

I'd take multilaser/heavyflamer on chimeras

Mech Eldar would certainly run rings around this build. I sure would love to play against that list with my DE!

Best thing about Mechdar is your Farseer will have RoWarding. Watch the only high strength attacks in his list backfire as Zoanthrope heads explode.

As an Ork player, I'm having a hard time thinking of any army that wouldn't be able to easily deal with this force.

The only LOSING army list I can think of would involve lots of Lootas and Artillery grots that get eaten by outflanking Genestealers.

A horde army will Dakka him to death, and finish him in CC. A Mek army will just have to worry about the Zoanthropes, but once they're taken care of will be able to destroy just about everything else. A Speed Freaks army will be able to send a Trukk or a Battlewagon to deal with just about any outflanking threat, and with almost no shooting, he'll have a hard time destroying the Trukks.

I'd be interested to know what your Ork player is doing to get beaten consistently. Maybe I'm wrong and this army is a lot more competitive against Orks than it looks.