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So, in the Army Lists forum, people often times run Eldar Warlocks without a power to keep their points minimized.

But, as I was looking through the Eldar codex, it appears this may not be legal.

On page 27 Codex Eldar, under Warlock Powers:

GW wrote:Each Warlock is a psyker and must be given a single Warlock power...

But, on page 60 Codex Eldar, in the Warlock entry, under Options:

GW wrote:All Warlocks may buy one Warlock psychic power...

So, what wins out? "Must" or "may"?

Whenever the Beastiary and the armylist conflict I usually go with the beastiary myself.

This allows my Platoon infantry Squads to blob, and gives my Master of the Forge a Servo arm to go along with his servo harness/conversion beamer.

If you do not go with this option you could always go with the most restrictive of the conflicting options(Which would be the must)

Consult the printed codex. I believe the wording is may in both places. There was a pre-release version floating around where there was a mismatch.

Homer

Homer S wrote:Consult the printed codex. I believe the wording is may in both places. There was a pre-release version floating around where there was a mismatch.

Homer

(Imagine we have an orkmoticon with shifty eyes. Insert it here.)

Ummm... I have no idea what you're talking about.

Thanks for the clarification!

In my book, its quite simple...

Would you call yourself a plumer if you didn't know how to fix pipes and stuff? No

Well how could ypu call yourself a Warlock if you dont know any psychic power?

Pete: no warlock has a psychic power.

They have warlock powers which cannot be negated by Hood, rune weapon, nor anything else. Also they do not ever take psychic tests to use their powers and you need only ever declare use of the shooting powers; the rest are always in effect.

Not needing to take a psychic test does not stop it from being a psychic power.

Realy !! I didn't know that subtle difference...

More importantly, there's page 60 of the codex: "All Warlocks may buy one Warlock psychic power from the following list:" followed by the list of Warlock powers.

that's a pretty good line out of the codex.

Sounds like a must is a must?

Well my dex only ever refers to it as a "warlock Psychic power" in the Armylist purchasing options, everywhere esle it is simply a Warlock power.

The no declaration of use, no test, and no possibility of negation also helps tell us they are not psychic powers; auto-pass powers(such as typhus's) are still called Psychic powers, and can still be negated (and technically you could still test, but he auto-passes)

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:that's a pretty good line out of the codex.

Sounds like a must is a must?

No, apparently the real copy of the codex uses the word "may" in every instance. It never says must.

There's a dummy copy out there, somewhere on the internet that uses the word "must"...

(Let this be a lesson, little boys and girls. Piracy is not only wrong, but also makes you look stupid on the internet!)

Grakmar wrote:(Let this be a lesson, little boys and girls. Piracy is not only wrong, but also makes you look stupid on the internet!)

Also in real life... if you happen to be walking down the street in full Pirate gar saying "ARRrr" at little kids.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Well my dex only ever refers to it as a "warlock Psychic power" in the Armylist purchasing options, everywhere esle it is simply a Warlock power.

The no declaration of use, no test, and no possibility of negation also helps tell us they are not psychic powers; auto-pass powers(such as typhus's) are still called Psychic powers, and can still be negated (and technically you could still test, but he auto-passes)

So, you are buying them as psychic powers.

You are also skipping right over Destructor, which does need to be used.

I knew my post felt incomplete; the wife asked for help on Borderlands...

For destructor you do have to declare the power is being used, but you will never even have to look at a Psychic test, it can never be passed, nor are you ever "successfully casting a Psychic power" therefore it cannot be negated.

What it is called in purchasing means nothing for what it actually is. Warlock powers are not psychic powers(although Warlocks are Psykers).

Kommissar Kel wrote:I knew my post felt incomplete; the wife asked for help on Borderlands...

For destructor you do have to declare the power is being used, but you will never even have to look at a Psychic test, it can never be passed, nor are you ever "successfully casting a Psychic power" therefore it cannot be negated.

What it is called in purchasing means nothing for what it actually is. Warlock powers are not psychic powers(although Warlocks are Psykers).

Destructor can be negated. Not by any of the typical psychic defense that mucks with the leadership test. But, there is a defense out there (forget who has it, sorry) that can negate any power that targets that unit/model. Destructor would target that unit/model, so can be negated.

wolf's tail talisman

I still don't consider Warlock powers to be Psychic powers so allow Destructor to function unhindered when used on my wolves. I would also allow it to function unhindered on Lady Malys for the same reason.

BTW I do not personally play Eldar, but my regular opponent does. I do however play Wolves and have Talismans on many units and am thinking of starting a DE force(since I always wanted one, but only had the 20 warriors that came with my 3rd edition boxed set) and would also consider using Lady Malys in some lists.

Grakmar wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:that's a pretty good line out of the codex.

Sounds like a must is a must?

No, apparently the real copy of the codex uses the word "may" in every instance. It never says must.

There's a dummy copy out there, somewhere on the internet that uses the word "must"...

(Let this be a lesson, little boys and girls. Piracy is not only wrong, but also makes you look stupid on the internet!)

I don't need piracy to pull that one off....I look plenty stupid as it is!

Kommissar Kel wrote:I still don't consider Warlock powers to be Psychic powers so allow Destructor to function unhindered when used on my wolves. I would also allow it to function unhindered on Lady Malys for the same reason.

BTW I do not personally play Eldar, but my regular opponent does. I do however play Wolves and have Talismans on many units and am thinking of starting a DE force(since I always wanted one, but only had the 20 warriors that came with my 3rd edition boxed set) and would also consider using Lady Malys in some lists.

That's nice for you, but they're listed as psychic powers in the army list section of the Eldar book and as such they are psychic powers. Obviously Destructor is the only one which affects the enemy, but wolf tail talismans, Lady Malys, and Adepta Sororitas units all get their psychic negation effects against it.

This is literally the same argument that was made about ramming not being tank shocking, or the named Tyranids not being Tyranids of their type, and each time it's been attempted GW have slapped it down.

No the same argument as to ramming and named nids would be that while you can pay points for Warlock Psychic powers you cannot use the powers in question because you are never given descriptions for "Warlock Psychic power", only "Warlock powers".

I don't really care what just the Armylist says; if the beastiary and powers list do not agree with it(and agree with each other) it can say "Warlocks may select 1 Smerp from the list below" then go on to list the Warlock powers for all i care, they are still going to be warlock powers an not Smerps.

If we go only by what the Armylist says then IG PIS's cannot blob, and masters of the Forge have no Servo arm(and therefore their Servo Harness does nothing).

Bestiary says warlocks may take a power, and defines them as warlock powers (as opposed to farseer psychic powers), so that's how i would and have run it.

Warlock may take one and they can't be negated by things that would negate a psychic power.

However, i've never had a situation in which i havent given one a warlock power.

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but i always thought Ramming and Tank Shocking were different, if not then i should have got my deffrolla attacks against a chimera today.... Admitedly this is one of my murkiest areas of the rules

Have a look at either the Ork FAQ or BRB FAQ, where they state that yes, when they wrote down "Ram is a special form of Tank Shock" that they actualy meant it.

Yes ramming is tank shock, just a special kind as written in it's description, functionally they are almost exactly the same; the only difference is that if you declare a tank shock you cannot also ram, and if you declare a ram you must move full available distace(6+d6" for a Russ, 12" for a normal tank, 13" for a battle wagon, 18" for a fast tank, 19" for an Ork Trukk, 24" for a fast Skimmer, 24+2d6" for a DE raider/ravager) or until it hits something(that doesn't explode from the hit).