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Sigh, my birthday just passed and my mom got me a 40K book - Angels of Darkness.

I swore after Nightbringer, I'd never read another 40k book, and then everyone was like O you gotta read Eisenhorn. I did, and it turned out Eisenhorn was a pretty good book. It's a trap! That's the only good one!

You know how someone says, you think this milk's gone bad? And then someone else tastes it, and is like pfffft gross this milk's gone bad! Well, take my advice - the milk's gone bad. Don't taste it for yourself.

What is especially galling is that it's half good: the story has two interwined tales, alternating by chapter. One of the stories is about Astelan, one of the Fallen Dark Angels. He shows the events of the Horus Heresy from his perspective as a Lutherite. That part was pretty solid. If you get this book from the library (don't buy it) and only read the Astelan chapters, you'll have a complete story which is average.

The other half is a Dark Angels chaplain, leading his charges on an insurmountable quest to stop some Fallen from stealing their secrets on a recruiting planet. Can they succeed against insurmountable odds? Answer: no. With the exception of the Astelan chapters, you don't even get to see the Fallen - it's like you set up a game of 40k, you go to the bathroom, and come back, and you got tabled by someone who's already left while you were in the bathroom. Except, rather then being tabled, all your best pieces just fell off the table without doing anything cool at all.

pic related

so specifically, what didnt you like about the book?
I myself thought it was a good book, the lack of a hollywood/micky mouse ending was also good.

You aren't supposed to see the fallen, they're like bogeymen, you know about them but are extremely are to find before they find you. I also thought the suicide was quite poetic in the sense that they sacrifice themselves and their duty to protect the citizens of the planet.

I give Angels of Darkness a pass.

Why?
He'd written two books prior. They were hit/miss too. Well, plus he was going off that itty bitty Dark Angels mini-Codex and the fluff from that.

He has really only hit his stride recently with the "Time of Legends" novels he's done for WHFB.

Mr Nobody wrote:You aren't supposed to see the fallen, they're like bogeymen,

..steady now ! It's almost like that might be one of the points the book makes !

I liked the book.

it was well written and fluffs out the DA relationship with the Fallen.

no offence OP, I dont think you got the point of the book.

Its a story of blind vengeance and losing sight of your true purpose, Space Marines are suposed to defend Humanity... the Dark Angels are not Space Marines

WOAH NOW OP!

This was a good book and everyones entiteled to thier opinions, but its good to keep to yourself most of the time, unlike produceing a thread that will get flamed so much that it will get locked and people geting hell from the MODs.

thank you for listining

Formosa wrote:so specifically, what didnt you like about the book?
I myself thought it was a good book, the lack of a hollywood/micky mouse ending was also good.

It didn't really have an end. That was a big problem for me. I don't consider "a complete ending" to be a hollywood/mickey mouse ending. I'm referring to the Boreas story, not the Astelan one. The Boreas story simply went nowhere and then stayed there. They looked for some of the fallen, they didn't find them, they fought a bunch of regular humans who put up no kind of fight, and then after being trapped\defeated by the fallen but never even seeing them, they all kill themselves. The end. Lame. I stand by my analogy of being tabled by someone while you were in the john. I guess that makes them a good player or so but the end result is not amazement at those kind of skills, but rank disappointment.

I guess the point was that the fallen are all super-mysterious, but the end was akin to them all dying in, like, an earthquake or something. It was sudden, and you didn't expect it, and the point could have been "well, that's how earthquakes work". Yes, sure, but that's not compelling reading, either. Neither is being trapped by a bunch of dude you never even see.

Bottom line, what really burned me was not that it was terrible, but that half was terrible and half was not. If it was all the way terrible, like Nightbringer, I could have just started skimming halfway and then tossed it when I realized it wasn't getting better. This one was legitimately good for the Astelan parts. Good character development, good dialogue, decent plotting.

The other parts... ugh. How do you become a member of Deathwing? When your chaplain says so. Yes, just paint your armor white, you're good to go. No Terminator armor required. C'mon, even the other marines had a hard time buying this plot point.

bigmek35 wrote:WOAH NOW OP!

This was a good book and everyones entiteled to thier opinions, but its good to keep to yourself most of the time, unlike produceing a thread that will get flamed so much that it will get locked and people geting hell from the MODs.

Yes, that's the purpose of a discussion board, to keep our mouths shut about our opinions. Speaking of, my opinion, and this is just one opinion, but if people don't like "getting hell from the mods" after flaming something, perhaps they should control themselves a little better instead of blaming someone else for their own willful actions. Unless you're Gav Thorpe, there's really no reason to get butthurt that some random guy you never met didn't like a book that maybe you did. I also wouldn't eat one of those KFC fiesta bowls with a gun to my head, and I know people like those, so different strokes for different folks.

Just because you read 3 books and thought 2 of them were lame doesn't mean the rest are.

Nightbringer was a little odd, but it is part of a long seris.


you haven't read anything by Dan Abnett. i reccomend you pick up something with his name on it. he is, arguably, the best writer the BL has.

some books by him

Brothers of the Snake

Titanicus


another good author is William King. he wrote the SW Omnibus 1 and 2. those are fantastic reads.


the HH books are good too.

Grey Templar wrote:Just because you read 3 books and thought 2 of them were lame doesn't mean the rest are.

Who said I've only read 3 Black Library books? I certainly didn't.

The OP has read an Abnett book, Eisenhorn.
I would personally suggest the HH series and Soul hunter as well as the Gaunt's ghosts series and Ravenor.

And the 'milk' is most definitely not 'off'. I respect your point of view but it is a bit premature to worn others about BL books when you have only read three your self.
PS. I really hope you decide to keep reading 40k related books and that you are able to enjoy them more than you did Angles of Darkness.

Ouze wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Just because you read 3 books and thought 2 of them were lame doesn't mean the rest are.

Who said I've only read 3 Black Library books? I certainly didn't.

Well, you weren't saying anything to the contrary. What else have you read?


and sorry about the Brainfart, of course Eisinhorn is an Abnett book


The Ravenor omnibus was awsome.

the Gk omnibus is pretty cool too.

I guess I've read about 6 or 7, without pulling up the BL site and counting. I'd say that Nightbringer was the worst (both in story and technical skill) and Eisenhorn is so far the best. I liked Storm of Iron quite a bit too, I'd probably put that at number two so far. I also read every single short story in Let The Galaxy Burn, and that was very hit or miss, but you'd expect that from any compilation. The Black Pearl (Chris Pramas) would probably be the best in that one. Words of Blood was very solid work as well.

I had been considering the GK Omnibus so will likely try that first. I like the Grey Knights a lot - they're pretty cool guy, fight the xeno and doesn't afraid of anything - but I also tried to read the Blood Raven omnibus and found that lacking. So, we'll see.

Don't read Blood Raven books. or anything by C.S. Goto. those will put you off BL books for sure and then we wouldn't blame you so harshly for wanting to quit.

Well if you enjoyed Eisenhorn, then I'd suggest the Ravenor omnibus as well. Its set some time after Eisenhorn ends, the good inquisitor has vanished to parts unknown and the series focuses on (duh) Gideon Ravenor.

Why not read Soulhunter?

Hi. Black Library fanatic here.

Nightbringer: I didn´t like it too. Some books out there are crappy, and this one is just that, IMHO. But McNeill is usually pretty good.
Angels of darkness: I liked it, but it is not a book to recommend. It hasn´t got any "action", just "revelatiions". If you already knew the shocking revelations before reading it, it should have been boring, I guess.
Eisenhorn: please DO NOT get Ravenor. I found it good, but not as good as Eisenhorn. It will disappoint you.
Storm of Iron: McNeill´s best one, in my opinion. I recommend you Dark Apostle (Anthony Reynolds). He made for the Word Bearers what McNeill did for the Iron Warriors. Soul Hunter (Aaron Dembski-Bowden) could be OK too, but I find the Night Lords legion he depicts ... slightly sad. His best one for me is Helsreach, about the Black Templars.
Let the Galaxy Burn. Any compilation would get similar results. I liked the most Heroes of the Space Marines, mostly due to the Chaos bits.

You like GK? I strongly recommend the omnibus. It´s out of stock in BL, but you can easily get it for $10 or less elsewhere

A little recommendation regarding Imperial Guard: Fifteen Hours (Mitchel Scanlon).

So I disagree with you. The milk is OK. This winter is full of good new stuff. And nobody said anything about you starting to read about the Horus Heresy... yet.

Manchu wrote:Why not read Soulhunter?

OP should read Soul Hunter I found it to be rather good and am eagerly awaiting the next book in the series.

da001 wrote:Hi. Black Library fanatic here.

Nightbringer: I didn´t like it too. Some books out there are crappy, and this one is just that, IMHO. But McNeill is usually pretty good.
Angels of darkness: I liked it, but it is not a book to recommend. It hasn´t got any "action", just "revelatiions". If you already knew the shocking revelations before reading it, it should have been boring, I guess.
Eisenhorn: please DO NOT get Ravenor. I found it good, but not as good as Eisenhorn. It will disappoint you.
Storm of Iron: McNeill´s best one, in my opinion. I recommend you Dark Apostle (Anthony Reynolds). He made for the Word Bearers what McNeill did for the Iron Warriors. Soul Hunter (Aaron Dembski-Bowden) could be OK too, but I find the Night Lords legion he depicts ... slightly sad. His best one for me is Helsreach, about the Black Templars.
Let the Galaxy Burn. Any compilation would get similar results. I liked the most Heroes of the Space Marines, mostly due to the Chaos bits.

You like GK? I strongly recommend the omnibus. It´s out of stock in BL, but you can easily get it for $10 or less elsewhere

A little recommendation regarding Imperial Guard: Fifteen Hours (Mitchel Scanlon).

So I disagree with you. The milk is OK. This winter is full of good new stuff. And nobody said anything about you starting to read about the Horus Heresy... yet.

Thanks for the advice. I am going to go with Horus Rising next.

I guess you're right, in that part of why I maybe didn't enjoy Angels of Darkness too much was that, indeed, I already knew all of the "revelations" - which did contribute to it being dissatisfying.

The Heresy books are a bit hit and miss, Flight o the einstien (i know what i said) is a cool book, into the abyss i think its called sucks balls... and wang chung.

If you can get your damn dirty ape hands on the Liber Chaotica books you will not be disapointed, they are very good and writen in an inteligent way for adults (and man children)

Ouze wrote:

da001 wrote:Hi. Black Library fanatic here.

Nightbringer: I didn´t like it too. Some books out there are crappy, and this one is just that, IMHO. But McNeill is usually pretty good.
Angels of darkness: I liked it, but it is not a book to recommend. It hasn´t got any "action", just "revelatiions". If you already knew the shocking revelations before reading it, it should have been boring, I guess.
Eisenhorn: please DO NOT get Ravenor. I found it good, but not as good as Eisenhorn. It will disappoint you.
Storm of Iron: McNeill´s best one, in my opinion. I recommend you Dark Apostle (Anthony Reynolds). He made for the Word Bearers what McNeill did for the Iron Warriors. Soul Hunter (Aaron Dembski-Bowden) could be OK too, but I find the Night Lords legion he depicts ... slightly sad. His best one for me is Helsreach, about the Black Templars.
Let the Galaxy Burn. Any compilation would get similar results. I liked the most Heroes of the Space Marines, mostly due to the Chaos bits.

You like GK? I strongly recommend the omnibus. It´s out of stock in BL, but you can easily get it for $10 or less elsewhere

A little recommendation regarding Imperial Guard: Fifteen Hours (Mitchel Scanlon).

So I disagree with you. The milk is OK. This winter is full of good new stuff. And nobody said anything about you starting to read about the Horus Heresy... yet.

Thanks for the advice. I am going to go with Horus Rising next.

I guess you're right, in that part of why I maybe didn't enjoy Angels of Darkness too much was that, indeed, I already knew all of the "revelations" - which did contribute to it being dissatisfying.

You are welcome.

Horus Rising, False Gods and Galaxy in Flames are really good IMO. They are a trilogy and should be read before any other.
The rest of them (12) can be read in any order.

I recommend A Thousand Sons, Fulgrim and Fallen Angels. Many people dislike the last. And you need to read "Descend of Angels" before reading it.
The only one I dislike is "Battle for the Abyss".

Hope you like Horus Rising.

Fulgrim was a good book but one thing really pisses me off about it.

It's a trap! That's the only good one!

Soul Hunter
Hellsreach.
Ravenor Trilogy
Gaunts Ghosts Series.

Are all fine books.

El-dred wrote:Fulgrim was a good book but one thing really pisses me off about it.

Spoiler:

When they meet Eldrad and the rest of the envoy of Eldar on the maiden world, once the fight breaks out not a SINGLE Marine dies, and there are like 10 of them, and from how it's explained in the books damn near a war host of of Eldar porting down from Craftworld Ulthwe including Falcons and Wave Serpents, hell and Avatar is beaten. My major issue with BL writers so far is writing everyone but SM and IG as total wimps. It's just not right.

Yep, that hurts. I know it, I am a CSM player.
If you are a CSM and want to suffer, read "Battle for the Abyss": 1 ultrasmurf = 100 Word Bearers. And the bad guy keep doing BWAHAHAHA! and being a moron all the time.

But most of the Black Library books have the same problem for the not-astartes/IG. Any recommendation about Eldar?

da001 wrote:

El-dred wrote:Fulgrim was a good book but one thing really pisses me off about it.

Spoiler:

When they meet Eldrad and the rest of the envoy of Eldar on the maiden world, once the fight breaks out not a SINGLE Marine dies, and there are like 10 of them, and from how it's explained in the books damn near a war host of of Eldar porting down from Craftworld Ulthwe including Falcons and Wave Serpents, hell and Avatar is beaten. My major issue with BL writers so far is writing everyone but SM and IG as total wimps. It's just not right.

Yep, that hurts. I know it, I am a CSM player.
If you are a CSM and want to suffer, read "Battle for the Abyss": 1 ultrasmurf = 100 Word Bearers. And the bad guy keep doing BWAHAHAHA! and being a moron all the time.

But most of the Black Library books have the same problem for the not-astartes/IG. Any recommendation about Eldar?

Though I usually agree with this, Fulgrim has the excuse that once he killed the Avatar the eldar decided it was time to retreat. Though what they were doing while their avatar was kicking butt, I don't know.

El-dred wrote:Fulgrim was a good book but one thing really pisses me off about it.

Spoiler:

When they meet Eldrad and the rest of the envoy of Eldar on the maiden world, once the fight breaks out not a SINGLE Marine dies, and there are like 10 of them, and from how it's explained in the books damn near a war host of of Eldar porting down from Craftworld Ulthwe including Falcons and Wave Serpents, hell and Avatar is beaten. My major issue with BL writers so far is writing everyone but SM and IG as total wimps. It's just not right.

ish. Don't forget though that each and every one of the marines with him is a Captain/similar and a figure of renown in the Legion.

da001 wrote:And the bad guy keep doing BWAHAHAHA! and being a moron all the time.

Yeah, I imagined him sat on his throne wringing his hands together, maybe with a cat on his lap.

When his plan failed he said to himself 'I would've gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky Space Marines' all Scooby Doo style.