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Hi all

I havent played fantasy since 6th ed. (just 40k), but now im planning to return (Hopefully i can get my regular cheesy opponents to play with me)

My regular opponents play Chaos Warriors, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, High Elves, Dwarves, Vampire Counts.

Not having played a single game since 6th ed, but having glimpsed at the new mechanics and the newest skaven book, here is my first list for my 8th ed. Skaven (cant WAIT to get back into fantasy and dust off my skaven, they need a lot of revenge too lol)

I just want help in regards of the best possible choices and if there are any really good units/combos i havent seen.
The list:

Grey Seer (505)
- Screaming Bell
- Skalm
- Power Scroll

Chieftain BSB (87)
- Dragon Helm
- Luckstone
- Shield

Plague Priest (279)
- Plague Furnace
- Dispel Scroll
- Flail

Warlock Engineer (15)

Warlock Engineer (15)

50 Skaven Slaves (102)
- Musician

50 Skaven Slaves (102)
- Musician

37 Clanrats (186.5)
- Full Command
- Shields

20 Stormvermin (235)
- Full Command
- Shields
- Storm Banner

6 Gutter Runners (108)
- Poison
- Slings

6 Gutter Runners (108)
- Poison
- Slings

30 Plague Monks (265)
- Full Command
- Plague Banner

Hell Pit Abomination (250)
- Warpstone Spikes

Warp-Lightning Cannon (90)

Doomwheel (150)

TOTAL: 2497.5 pts

Edit: Flail added to the Plague Priest

Overall the lists looks good.
Though I would myself give the Battlestandard bearer Amulet of Warding and Charmed Shield.
I am personally not a huge fan of Plague furnace since it lacks the wardsave the Bell got, so I would lose it and add some weapon teams and adding the Doom Rocket to one of the engineers and give the Plague Priest Ironcurse Icon.

What weapon teams would you add? To the clanrats and stormvermin? Two WFTs i would think... ?

And what about poison wind globadiers and jezzails are they still worth it? should i add some?

I could add a second Cannon if i ditch the plague furnace, too.

May the horned rat curse the foul minions of the internet! They ate my 15 minutes+ of typing

I'll add some short things for now...

Plague priest got a flail not added to the army list judging by his pointcost.

I'd say one Poisoned Wind Mortar and one Warpfire Thrower as weaponteams.

That would be 135 points against 150, if you drop another 20 points(the shields on the stormvermin seems like the best option) you can also add a Doom Rocket to a engineer and Ironcurse Icon to the Plague Priest.

Also I would say Amulet of Preservation and Charmed Shield are better setup for the Battlestandard Bearer.

Oh and if you like the Plaguefurnace you can keep it in instead of weaponteams, the main issue I have with it is that I don't like it(never liked Clan Pestilence at all actually) and it has got slighty worse this edition.

A pretty aggressive list. A few suggestions/questions:

- I agree about the BSB. Either a 4+ Ward or something else along with the Charmed Shield.

- Are the Engineers supposed to go in the Slave units for boosted Leadership? I wouldn't worry about that, considering your general passes out a base 7 to anyone within 18" on that bell. Give one a Doom Rocket, as said, because it is too stupidly good not to.
A bigger gambit would be giving the other Engineer the Brass Orb, (for that Altar of Khaine and Anvil of Doom).

- I'm honestly not sure if the Clanrat and Stormvermin units are big enough. Which one is going with the bell?

-One Warpfire Thrower and one Poisoned Wind Mortar would be good. Some people would say two warpfire throwers.

- If you're going for super competitve, I would not recommend Globadiers or Jezzails.

- As for Clan Pestilens, well, they took a big hit with the essential loss of Censer Bearers, but I think they're still solid. I'd recommend the Shroud of Dripping Death over the Plague Banner, for those units you get stuck into that the Monks can't kill.
Also, Iratus, why don't you like the Furnace? I've always considered it a more reliable and destructive Bell, though I never expect my Priest to survive.

- Why not a Catapult? They help deal with those big units, or heavily armoured ones, or big, heavily armoured units. 2 cannons seems standard, but I'd mix it up. I think the 'pult is a legit choice.

- Finally, remember that Doom Wheels are now as maneuverable as Abominations, which is a tragedy.

Also, Iratus, why don't you like the Furnace?

Well... its just a personal prefference, it steals the Screaming Bells thunder, Skaven got enough big toys as it is.
That and the fact that it got as far as I know added out of nowhere.
I can't complain about how it works on the table though, seems to be really good.

thanks alot both of you for your suggestions and feedback

Ill need a little time to digest and make some changes. (working too much)
I will def. follow your advice about a ward save + charmed shield for the BSB
My plan was for the Bell to be riding with the Clanrats, and the Stormvermin acting as a flanking unit with the clanrats. Dont know if thats a good idea (i havent played for years, but will again as soon as i get my army sorted out).

Yes, the idea for the engineers was for cheap LD boost for the slaves. I would like to add the Doom rocket though

Would also MUCH like to add WFT and Mortar. And add maybe 5-10 bodies to the stormvermin and clanrats.....

BUT where to take out the points???

Possible ways to gain points...hmm...
Remove the Plaguefurnace.
Remove shields on Stormvermin, you could also remove the Stormvermin from the list if you want to add more clanrats/slaves. *shrugs*
Remove one unit of Gutter Runners.
Remove the Magic banner on the Plaguemonks, or pick a cheaper one.
Remove Warpstone Spikes on Hellpit Abomination.
Remove the Doomwheel or exchange it for another warplightning cannon or a plagueclaw catapult.

A "quick" way to add a poisoned wind mortar and a doomrocket that don't change the general setup of the army would be to lose the shields on the stormvermin, lose magical banner on Plaguemonks and remove Warpstone Spikes on the Abomination...don't think its worth the loss of Magic Banner from the Plaguemonks and magical attacks/magic resistance on the Abomination though.

Well, let's see...weapon teams for 135, adding 10 Clannies for 45, 10 Stormies for 80, and a Doom Rocket....

If you drop an Engineer, a team of 'Runners, and the Wheel, you'd have 263, which leave you with 3 points to spare.

I'm not sure how well the Doom Wheel runs in 8th, with it's severely nerfed-ness, and while the Gutter Runners are good, I think one unit, carefully used, will serve you well.

It might be easier just to drop the Stormvermin or the Clanrats and bulk out the other. The shields would be nice on the Stormies, especially if they're pushing the bell, since they'd be a prime target for shooting. But that's why I usually run my bell with Clanrats; they're cheaper and I can put more of 'em on the board.

And I agree with Iratus on keeping the Warpstone Spikes, at the very least. I think the Monks and Furnace could hold their own without a magical banner, but a monster that can attack wraiths, spirit hostes, and ethereal vampire-turned Great Fire Dragons is pretty sweet. And it's 15 points.

Oh, and Iratus, I can see what yer' saying on the Furnace. I thought you knew something about it that I didn't that made it bad.

Thanks for all your advice both of you

Ive had some time to digest it. And i have changed my list to reflect that. Ill post the new list, so you can compare the new one to the original.

I have followed a lot of your suggestions i think.
I have gotten rid of the stormvermin entirely. i have never liked them too much (like in NEVER!, lol), replaced them with another unit of clanrats.

Well check the list. I like it a lot.
Only things i dont like is going without the doomwheel (mostly because i like the model) and with just one units of gutter runners. But thats small things...

I plan for the BSB to go with the Mortar-clanrats, without the Bell. So i'll have the three characters spread out over three units (well four over four, the engineer going in one slave unit)
Let me know what you think?

Grey Seer (475)
- Screaming Bell
- Power Scroll

Chieftain BSB (120)
- Charmed Shield
- Talisman of Preservation

Plague Priest (284)
- Plague Furnace
- Dispel Scroll
- Ironcurse Icon
- Flail

Warlock Engineer (45)
- Doom Rocket

50 Skaven Slaves (102)
- Musician

49 Skaven Slaves (100)
- Musician

40 Clanrats (270)
- Full Command
- Shields
- Warpfire Thrower

40 Clanrats (265)
- Full Command
- Shields
- Poison Wind Mortar

8 Gutter Runners (144)
- Poison
- Slings

40 Plague Monks (355)
- Full Command
- Storm Banner

Hell Pit Abomination (250)
- Warpstone Spikes

Warp-Lightning Cannon (90)

TOTAL: 2500 pts

I think i'd have the priest trade the dispell scroll for the talisman that makes its -1 for enemys to shoot you. The monks have low armor so this is very helpful. Coupled with the storm banner it will be impossible to shoot them unit you are already in combat.

Other things that I did like:

-I like the power scroll on the Seer it makes its 100% almost to get off the 13th spell as I'm sure you are aware of.

-I liked that you upped the amount of models pushing the furnace, i'd say 40 is about the minimum with 50-60 being even better. A large unit of unbreakable monks pushing a furnace is just crazy.

-Over all a pretty powerhouse list anyway you dice it up. Good job.

yeah i like the new list myself too. Really like that it was possible to bulk out the clanrats and the plague monks.

And yeah, the powerscroll should be EVIL

Thanks for the advice about getting talisman vs. shooting, ill look into that!
Though i am pretty happy about bringing a dispell scroll. Would you be comfortable going without dispell scroll?


Do you advice dropping something else, to up the number of plague monks further? (i have PLENTY of em, like 100+, and 20+ censer bearers, lol)

Now i am damn excited to get started playing... I havent played yet, since 6th ed. (and mostly since 5th i think lol). So ill have to get some practice games in, and see what i think!
But i'd like to have a pretty "set" list, at least so i can start re-working my existing models (may need repairs, plus A LOT of paint jobs) plus buying additional ones... I havent got WLC, Abom or nearly enough slaves, plus need to buy the Furnace too. So good long winter project for me. GREAT!

Speaking of this... what are everyones thoughts about swapping the Abom for a Doomwheel + extra Warp-L cannon? (i have the doomwheel and love it) ?

I have not tried the Hellpit Abomination myself yet, though from what I gathered it will sometimes crush the entire opponents army by itself and sometimes die terribly after a few turns of weak movement.
The main advantage I see with keeping the Abomination is that you got 3 targets that enemy cannons want to shoot at(Bell, plaguefurnace and Abomination), so it will be harder for them to take everything down.

If you really like the doomwheel I'd say don't let the Abomination keep you from using it, Doomwheel CAN work really well(though some think they are "meh" since they lost power compared last edition).

Also consider getting a Plagueclaw catapult instead of a second Warplightning cannon, that thing is rather evil.

A note on the Plaguepriest:
If your facing warmachines alot it might be worth swapping his Dispel Scroll for a Scrying Stone for nice one use Wardsave against the first cannon ball that comes his way(if you don't mind stupidity that is).

These changes would give you 10 or 20 points to spend.
Might also be worth dropping a few Gutter Runners to free up enough points to give the Greey Seer Shadow Magnet Trinket and maybe add a few bodies to some unit, I have found that a unit of 5-6 is usually enough to drop most warmachines and such around.

Again, thx for all the advice.

I have been mulling it over, and i have reached some conclusions about how i plan to rebuild my opcoming skaven force (at 2500 pts).

Let me know what you think, and if you think this list is an improvement over my former list (i think it is!)

I have dropped 40 clanrats for another two blocks of 50 slaves. And used the savings for another WLC. Plus i have minimized the gutter runners to 5, and bought Skalm for the Grey Seer (to help keep him around i hope)

I think its a nice neat list now, that i cant wait to muster
For 3000pts (which i wanna reach) i plan to simply add two doomwheels (that i love), another 50 slaves + a unit of 5 more Runners
--------

L: Grey Seer - Screaming Bell, Skalm & Power Scroll (505)

H: Chieftain BSB - Charmed Shield & Talisman of Preservation (120)
H: Plague Priest - Plague Furnace, Dispel Scroll, Ironcurse Icon & Flail (284)
H: Warlock Engineer - Doom Rocket (45)

C: 40 Clanrats - Full Command, Shields & Warpfire Thrower (270)
C: 50 Slaves - Musician (102)
C: 50 Slaves - Musician (102)
C: 50 Slaves - Musician (102)
C: 50 Slaves - Musician (102)

S: 39 Plague Monks - Full Command & Storm Banner (348)
S: 5 Gutter Runners - Poison & Slings (90)

R: Hell Pit Abomination - Warpstone Spikes (250)
R: Warp-Lightning Cannon (90)
R: Warp-Lightning Cannon (90)

TOTAL: 2500 pts

I like it. 300 or so rats and a mess of artillery. Your enemy will have so many threats to target somethings got to get through.

Looks good, can't really think of anything with the 2500 points list right now. On the 3000 points list I got one possible change to mention.
Plagueclaw catapults are pure murder against things like High Elves or any army with low toughness and large units.
You should get one of those instead of a second Doomwheel(I know, they are so loveable! ) and for the extra 50 points you could beef up some slave or the clanrats,
or add two units of five giant rats with packmaster.
I have found they worth it if just for the +1 combat resolution from a flank charge or running along the flanks to keep warmachines distracted if the Gutter Runners decides to betray your masterful battleplan(remember to kill those scurrying...err...rats slowly for their failure), its also great fun using them to take the bullet(or bolt/arrow) for another of your units from someones Stand and Shoot charge reaction. Though bad panic tests when they get blown to pieces is a possible issue.