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OK, I love the background for the four chaos gods, and I love how they hate each other.

Thus my disappointment with the current direction the Daemons of Chaos book went (what would Malal say???)

Anyhow, I play mono-Tzeentch (since before the Storm of Chaos book - so I still have some chaos spawn) and I noticed that I can be competitive up to about 3,000 points, but after that I am doo doo. I actually start losing effectiveness at about 2000 points.

So I am curious if any other mono-chaos god daemon players out there have also noticed that their army seems to have a ceiling as far as effectiveness?

Thanks

I wouldn't really say that it loses effectiveness at larger numbers since pretty much any army becomes "Pick unit, use more than you usually would". The thing that hurts Mono-Tz is your reliance on the Winds of Magic and that it does not scale up at larger points. This wouldn't really hurt pure-combat lists or mixed lists as much since they participate in the other aspects of the game instead of just overwhelming your opponent during one phase.

Ooh, good economics argument by Kirbinator there. Yes, you have a diminishing return on your magical investment.

I'm guessing staring at all that pink can't do much for your game play either.

@ Flashman LOL!

I only paint a third of my horrors pink, did not like the retro- return of only blue and pink, but what can you do?

@ Kirbinator: I agree about that, I guess I just wish I could have some Tzeentch daemons that can do close combat. . .

I think I just like how pure god armies look and fit the fluff, but GW wants us to band together like we are a bunch of elector counts or something.

Any Khorne, Nurgle or Slaanesh pure armies out there hitting a ceiling without Tzzeentch magic?

I don't know how much tzeench is hurt.
More points means more flamers. At less than 3000 points, you can get 450 points of rare flamers; along with some horror blocks for channeling, flying chariots, screamers and a greater daemon.

I think Tzeench still plays a very effective run and gun army.
With 3x10 horrors (and the rest of the 25% made up of furies) it's going to be hard to score victory points on tzeench.

With 6 channeling attempts, and 2 or 3 bonus power dice (power vortex), Tzeench can have a decent advantage in the magic phase.
Start it off with 4 wizards rolling 1 die (with a +2) for flickering fire.

The funny thing is, you want low rolls with winds of magic, since you should get ~4 bonus power dice each phase.


I think the Key for Tzeench at 2K to 3K is to NOT field larger units. You won't stop you're opponents big units, you'll just get tied up in combat, where you'll eventually lose. You want to go more avoidance.


I dislike mono-themed daemon armies because of the lack of variety of units. You get 1 lord, 1 hero, 1 core, 1 special, 1 rare. Yawn. You make an Ogre army look exciting.



-Matt

Good point Matt, I forgot about the extra bits Tz armies get. I definitely agree about the monotony of it in larger games. At least in smaller ones it's not so bad.

Furies won't count towards core, so the 3x10 horror strategy won't work.

Tzeentch in the past was diametrically opposed to Nurgle, and didn't get along with Khorne thanks to his distaste of sorcery, so you could stay tru-ish to fluff and ally with Slaanesh.

One way to get around the monotone of a single god army is to use some of the other units as counts as. I've seen fleshhounds done up Nurgle style (pretty much dire wolves with a little more rot) and Seekers done up Khorne style (appropriately painted ghoul conversions on flesh hounds).

The question of diminishing returns really hinges on how high you are talking about going. I think Khorne should do alright as you can take spell breakers to help a bit with magic, have some MR to help there, and the basic unit, bloodletters are pretty great. But who knows at those higher points?

I guess we all agree that "mono-god" = "monotony"

I think that is a shame, I wish they would be bold with their IP and give more options for each chaos god and more options for unaligned daemons, but apparently they thought that mingling the gods was more interesting . . . or just easier.

Agreed with Red_Zeke, and at higher points I add some Slaanesh to the mix, but I might try creating some inhouse explanations of why Tzeentch has some heavy hitters (ie. bloodletters for Tzeentch) etc. Oh well, I guess GW is not really interested in themed lists . . .