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In a recent tournament I played Al'Rahem and a three-squad power blob as allies with my Witch Hunters.

A Witch Hunter priest was included in my list and attached to the blob.

Since WH Priests aren't IC's, it can outflank with the platoon plus it can't be singled out in close-combat.

Am I missing something here, or is this the neatest thing since sliced bread?

While the blob performed well in all three games, in the first, they walked on and charged a four-squad blob. They killed over twenty models in the first turn thanks in large part to Righteous Fury. They finished the bad guy blob off on the last round on HtH.

Seems fine to me. I had to spend a bit of time reading the rules for inducting units into the Witch Hunters but everything seems above board. I guess the only reason you don't see this happen very often is that very few people run Witch Hunters in the first place.

L. Wrex

The big question in my mind is whether priests can be taken as Witch Hunter allies in the one HQ slot available.

I guess one could build a minimal Witch Hunter army and attach a bunch of IG. There are some limitations though.

I don't doubt the possibility of this, but it seems a little fishy.

As WH priests aren't independent characters, then how do they get into an infantry squad in the first place?

As well, are you positive they can be included as allies in a guard force?

I'm curious why you would need a non-IC priest to outflank with Al'Rahem's platoon. His outflank conferred by neither Infiltrate not Scouts, so I don't see ICs getting in the way.

Ailaros wrote:I don't doubt the possibility of this, but it seems a little fishy.

As WH priests aren't independent characters, then how do they get into an infantry squad in the first place?

As well, are you positive they can be included as allies in a guard force?

Its not allies in a Guard force, its Guard allies in a Witch Hunter force. I'm not positive about the other way around.

Witch Hunter priests "must always be attached to other units" and may be attached to "Inducted Imperial Guard Infantry squads".


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ElCheezus wrote:I'm curious why you would need a non-IC priest to outflank with Al'Rahem's platoon. His outflank conferred by neither Infiltrate not Scouts, so I don't see ICs getting in the way.

An IG priest is not part of the platoon, it is not granted outflank by Al'Rahem's special rule.

Unfortunately, I believe you're missing something here. Priests are listed in a separate section in the unit entries as though they're a 'real unit', but they're actually upgrade characters. Note in the WH rulebook where it says.... oh god. You're right. Under the priest entry it says what they may be added to. It includes INDUCTED Imperial Guard. The key word there is inducted. This looks legit, and pretty awesome.

Just to make sure: You're running a WH army with allied in Guard right? If so then you're good.

ElCheezus wrote:I'm curious why you would need a non-IC priest to outflank with Al'Rahem's platoon. His outflank conferred by neither Infiltrate not Scouts, so I don't see ICs getting in the way.

So that you can have that eviscerator upfront and swinging right with the power weapons and have no fear of retaliation.

pzbw7z wrote:

ElCheezus wrote:I'm curious why you would need a non-IC priest to outflank with Al'Rahem's platoon. His outflank conferred by neither Infiltrate not Scouts, so I don't see ICs getting in the way.

An IG priest is not part of the platoon, it is not granted outflank by Al'Rahem's special rule.

Hmm. I never saw this as a problem before, but it is a pretty big deal for my new army.

Ailaros has attached priests in Al'Rahem's platoon as well, I think. Hmm.



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Hmm. This logic may get tortured, fair warning.

IG Codex P64: "Any unit that is part of Al'rahem's Infantry Platoon must outflank."

Amusingly enough, Stalk the enemy doesn't give the units Scout or even Outflank, just says they have to.

P94 BRB: Preparing Reserves - During deployment, when declaring which units are left in reserve, the player must clearly explain the org of his reserves to his opponent.
First he must specifiy to his opponent if any of his ICs left in reserve are joining a unit, in which case they will be rolled for and will arrive together, or not in which case they will count as a separate unit when rolling for reserves.

P94 BRB: Outflank - During deployment players may declare their units with the 'scout' or 'infiltrate' special rules are attempting to outflank the enemy.

Okay, so order of operations here.

You place Al'Rahem's platoon in normal reserves.
As part of that, you have to declare IC attachment.
You attach priests to AR's platoon.
You are forced to declare AR's platoon will outflank as part of deployment.
Priests are still attached.

BRB P48 - Special Rules - When an IC joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the 'stubborn' special rule), the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character, and the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit. In some cases, though the IC loses their special rules as a result of the character joining the unit. For example, if an independent character without the 'infiltrate' special rule joins a unit of infiltrators during deployment, the unit cannot infiltrate (see the USR section for more details).

I'm torn on this.

Infiltrate has a * next to it which means it specifically does not transfer from unit to IC, Stubborn does not. Does the IC count as part of the platoon once he attaches, hence being granted outflank or is he just forced too because of order of operations?

This is clear as crystal. When you assign an IC to a squad in reserves, they're a part of the squad when rolling for reserves. End of.

The only problem would be that ICs would take away scouts, or other special rules, but, as el cheezus notes, al'rahem just says "they must outflank" not "they all get scouts", or something equivalent.

As for the OP, that seems like just another one of those things that made sense back in 3rd ed when they got their codex that is just sort of broken now (like zeal and going to ground). Given how many things have been broken in a bad way in that codex, I guess we should all just let the couple of good broken things slide.

Whether IG priest can outflank with Al'Rahem is another question; I assumed not, but I've been wrong before.

If they can, then this isn't all that cool, except for the un-targetablility in CC the Witch Hunter priest has.

My main army is Witch Hunters, has been for years. I've recently begun playing Tallarn IG. It seemed like a good idea to try them together.

daedalus wrote:Unfortunately, I believe you're missing something here. Priests are listed in a separate section in the unit entries as though they're a 'real unit', but they're actually upgrade characters. Note in the WH rulebook where it says.... oh god. You're right. Under the priest entry it says what they may be added to. It includes INDUCTED Imperial Guard. The key word there is inducted. This looks legit, and pretty awesome.

Just to make sure: You're running a WH army with allied in Guard right? If so then you're good.

ElCheezus wrote:I'm curious why you would need a non-IC priest to outflank with Al'Rahem's platoon. His outflank conferred by neither Infiltrate not Scouts, so I don't see ICs getting in the way.

So that you can have that eviscerator upfront and swinging right with the power weapons and have no fear of retaliation.

This is correct..and in 1 of the FAQ's I recall reading you can upgrade the inducted units to include the special characters (alrahem and chenkov thus can be allowed).

Yes, the priest (which is NOT and IC and does not take up a HQ slot) is an upgrade to the unit. As an upgrade it can outflank (this would be similar to attached wolf guard to SW scouts)...

The only disadvantage here is that the WH priests has the rule where the squad always counts as moving, and must always charge (thus the squad can no voluntarily rapid fire weapons if this would prevent the unit from charging)....so when you do this the unit must really be used as a kamikaze squad...

freddieyu1 wrote:The only disadvantage here is that the WH priests has the rule where the squad always counts as moving, and must always charge

Yeah, what a penalty...

As for the new IC guard priests, yes, they can outflank with Al'Rahem.

daedalus wrote:This looks legit, and pretty awesome.

Just to make sure: You're running a WH army with allied in Guard right? If so then you're good.

ElCheezus wrote:I'm curious why you would need a non-IC priest to outflank with Al'Rahem's platoon. His outflank conferred by neither Infiltrate not Scouts, so I don't see ICs getting in the way.

So that you can have that eviscerator upfront and swinging right with the power weapons and have no fear of retaliation.

Yes it's a Witch Hunters army with Inducted IG.

Well, it's a little bit awesome. So far, I've only tried it once, in a three-game tournament. The Sisters with Al-Rahem beat IG, Space Wolves, and Blood Angels, in that order. Not too shabby for a crappy old codex.

The priest is golden until the squad is nearly toast, which didn't happen in the tournament.


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freddieyu1 wrote:
The only disadvantage here is that the WH priests has the rule where the squad always counts as moving, and must always charge (thus the squad can no voluntarily rapid fire weapons if this would prevent the unit from charging)....so when you do this the unit must really be used as a kamikaze squad...

Well there is also the INSANE points-cost of Witch Hunter priests and the lack of the free Rosarius - that last bit isn't such a disadvantage with 31-ablative wounds.

I played Priests for years until the codex just got so far behind I had to cut the fat to keep up. With the IG allies, I think the benefit justifies the cost in a way that it just doesn't with any Witch Hunter unit.


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pretre wrote:
I'm torn on this.

Infiltrate has a * next to it which means it specifically does not transfer from unit to IC, Stubborn does not. Does the IC count as part of the platoon once he attaches, hence being granted outflank or is he just forced too because of order of operations?

The trouble with swallowing this is one also has to buy Ghazghull getting the benefit of Ambush by attaching to Snikrot's Kommandos and Space Wolf IC's with Saga of the Hunter using Behind Enemy Lines by attaching to Wolf Scouts. The latter is actually more reasonable than Ministorum priests attaching to Al'Rahem's blob, as far as I can see.

I'm not going to argue with anyone about it but I'm not going to do it in my own Guard army until I see it in an FAQ.