Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok now heres a 3000 Point this i've come up with, after looking at the unit rules, reading the fluff, and seeing what other people have found to work.

Got a crap ton of empire laying around, with 4 state troops, a BSB and then a captain on foot being the only thing painted!

So heres a 3000 Point list i've come up with, as it can be seen, I like the idea of large blocks, being backed up detachments for support. So lets see what you guys think, and what stinks? I'm completly baffled by all these magic items, and whilst some look good, I have no idea of there worth in real games, so I'm hoping that a few of you fantasy veterans out there will be able to help me! Thanks in advance for anyone thats taken time to go through this, and add feedback.

Lord:
General of the Empire 280 Points
- Griffon

Heroes:
Captain of the Empire 75 Points
- BSB

Warrior Priest 90 Points

Warrior Priest 90 Points

Core:
40 x Halberdiers 220 Points
-Full Command

15 x Swordsmen 90 Points

10 x Handgunners 80 Points

(This is then again repeated)

Special:
10 x Knightly Orders 270 Points
-Full command

2 x Mortar 150 Points

3 x Great Cannon 300 Points

30 x Greatswords 330 Points
-Full command

20 Flagellants 200 Points

Rare:
Hellblaster Volley Gun 110 Points

Total so far: 2675 Points

Edited to make it easier to read.

Thanks again.

No fantasy generals able to give me some quick C & C?

Not an empire player myself, but on first glance, a master engineer would earn his keep with all that artillery.

Also, even a level 2 wizard could be handy for giving you something to do in the magic phase and for the bonus to dispel.

Haven't done the math on the halbrediers, but they *will* die pretty quickly, so you might want to consider boosting the blocks to 50.

Finally, consider an intermediate points level to build to- maybe something like 2000 or 2500. The task can be daunting at really big levels, and you'll be wanting to play in the interim. And when you *do* play you'll get a sense of what works, what you like, and what you don't.

Thank you very much for the comments. Looking at other lists, even for other races, I've started to realise that i lack any sort of magic. Halberdiers I have no idea on, but there high strength seemed to make up for what seemed weak blocks. On revision I'm thinking of dropping the flagellants, replacing them with a 10 man unit of huntsman, for warmachine hunting, and then with the points left over, filling in with magic items, and looking into getting an engineer and a wizard. Will look into writing a lower list, the highest point's i've played at the minute is 500 points! I'm just scared to assemble my state troops with different weapons not knowing what I will want them at 3k games!

I haven't seen them in action, but I think large blocks of halberdiers have a lot of potential due to the cheapness. Boost that with a warrior priest for hatred, or with any of the buff magics.

Sounds good! Silly question, but I've never really considered this before.. when I take 40 state troops and attach a warrior priest to them, where does the 40th state troop go? does he go to the back on his own, or does the character stay at the side of the front rank, making it 11 wide?

The last man goes in a rank of his own. So, 10x4 and one straggler on the end.

Also, I always run two hordes of 40 Halberdiers with a warrior priest and it is a super deadly combo that can take on pretty much anything. A few weeks ago I was playing against a HE player and he sent a unit of 25 white lions with a prince and Korhil in it into one of my units and after taking 13 casualties I wiped his unit. Granted not many opponents will do something that foolish, but for its points the halberdier units are great.

Thank you for the feedback. This is what I needed to hear, as I was unsure of there validity. And also thank you for clearing up the character issue!

TheFirstBorn wrote:Ok now heres a 3000 Point this i've come up with, after looking at the unit rules, reading the fluff, and seeing what other people have found to work.

Got a crap ton of empire laying around, with 4 state troops, a BSB and then a captain on foot being the only thing painted!

So heres a 3000 Point list i've come up with, as it can be seen, I like the idea of large blocks, being backed up detachments for support. So lets see what you guys think, and what stinks? I'm completly baffled by all these magic items, and whilst some look good, I have no idea of there worth in real games, so I'm hoping that a few of you fantasy veterans out there will be able to help me! Thanks in advance for anyone thats taken time to go through this, and add feedback.

Lord:
General of the Empire 280 Points
- Griffon
your making a terrible lord choice even more expensive by giving him a mediocre mount. dop him and take an arch lector with van hortsmans spectulem,armour of meteoric iron and the sword of anti heroes
Heroes:
Captain of the Empire 75 Points
- BSB
i would give him armour of silvered steel or full plate and holy relic
Warrior Priest 90 Points

Warrior Priest 90 Points
both need heavy amour and either a geat weapon or 2nd hammer
Core:
40 x Halberdiers 220 Points
-Full Command

15 x Swordsmen 90 Points

10 x Handgunners 80 Points
good this is how i run mine except i use 15 halberdiers
(This is then again repeated)

Special:
10 x Knightly Orders 270 Points
-Full command
fine
2 x Mortar 150 Points
get at least 1 more i would suggest 2
3 x Great Cannon 300 Points
get another 1
30 x Greatswords 330 Points
-Full command
need a detachment i say halberdies and a crossbow detachment
20 Flagellants 200 Points
nice tarpit
Rare:
Hellblaster Volley Gun 110 Points
no not as good as you think drop it
Total so far: 2675 Points

Edited to make it easier to read.

Thanks again.

my edits are listed above. You need an engineer if your taking all those war machines. As well get a lvl.4 life wizard in there and a level 2. Also 10 outriders are your friends

Yeah, its looking like the Arch Lector is the way to go... Not just for the "uberness" but also due to the fun modelling ideas I have for him. Thanks for the comments, I will go over the magic items listed and fit them in where appropriate! Although I was thinking of dropping the Flagellants and instead taking 10 huntsmen, which would give the points to give the Greatswords a detachment? And also I will need to fit a wizard in somewhere, as I keep getting many comments about this! Also been told to drop the cannons down to 2, as 3 will not be able to get shots off constantly and make there points back as much as mortars, so i may up the mortars to 4, and bring the cannons to 2, and baby sit them with an engineer. I will rewrite a list later after my revision, and see what you guys think!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, here's the revised list!


Lords
Arch Lector of Sigmar
Van Hortsmans Speculum
Armour of Meteoric Iron
Sword of Anti Heroes
War Altar

Wizard Lord
Level 4
Rod of Power

Heroes

Captain of the Empire
Battle Standard Bearer
Full Plate Armour
Holy Relic

Warrior Priest
Heavy Armour
Great Weapon

Warrior Priest
Heavy Armour
Additional Warhammer

Master Engineer

Core

(40) Halberdiers [A]
Full Command

(15) Swordsmen [A]

(10) Handgunners [A]

(40) Halberdiers [B]
Full Command

(15) Swordsmen [B]

(10) Handgunners [B]

(10) Knightly Orders
Full Command
Great Weapons

(10) Crossbowmen [C]

(10) Archers
Huntsmen

Special

(3) Mortars

(2) Cannons

(30) Greatswords [C]
Full Command

Rare

Hellblaster Volley Gun

[A], [B], [C] stand for the detachment units they are part of.

Hope this is easy to read,

Feel free to destroy it!

Edit: Forgot to add this leaves me at 2984 Points, with 16 left to spend. Have absolutely no clue where to put them..

list updated.

No flagellants? Those guys are simply amazing in 8th ed. You can also include one unit as core if you have at least one warrior priest

I didn't know if they'd be worth it tbh? Seeing as I can't think of a role that I would need them to play in the battle.

Does the Empire have some special rule that allows it to take more than 3 of a Special choice, Exodusofman?

A solid list. It depressed me to see the General go, mainly because every empire player I've ever done battle with has used a similar Arch Lector build (personally, I'd just drop the War Altar and give him a Ward save, to save some points and protect him better), but it is good, and easily the most competitive build.

As for the Flagellants, I think they're best at holding down a scary unit for a turn or two, outside of your general and BSB's bubbles, to buy you enough time to get in there yourself. You've got a decent mix of hand-to-hand and shooting (emphasis on the latter, but that's empire for ya'), so I'd just try it out with what you've got so far.

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with this list now, thanks to everyone who helped contribute towards. I myself was pretty gutted about the general, due to the fact I already have him modelled and on my painting table ready to be painted, but least I have the option to play with him every now and again. The Arch Lector just seems a more viable choice. I now have to write a 1250 Point list for a doubles tournament I'm attending at the end of February, I'm doomed!!

To warpslution: the limit in 8th ed for special choices is based on the total value of all the special units(which cannot exceed 50% of the total army value. Its only that you cannot take more then 3 of each unit choice.
General is actually pretty good, cheap and versile, he also lets you put a magic baner on one of ur state troops.
Have you chosen a lore for ur wizard yet? It has to be stated in the army list nowadays. Lore of life and beast are awesome IMO.
Still think flagellants are awesome.

Ah. As I thought (I figured that 4 cannons and 4 mortars would be too much anyway; either overkill when they were working, or a loss of points when they weren't).

If you want to use the general, why not? Save you some points and all. Just keep him around for a Ld boost, rather than an attempt to kill other characters.

Also, you mentioned your concern with which weapons your state troops should be modeled with. As for that, remember that you only need 51% of your models to look like what the unit is, according to WYSIWYG, so a few spearmen and swordsmen mixed in with the halberdiers wouldn't hurt. That way, you won't have to buy nearly so many troops, and you can mix n' match 'em (and personally, I like my basic, non-elite troops to have a bit of the rag-tag look to them anyway).

Warpsolution wrote:Does the Empire have some special rule that allows it to take more than 3 of a Special choice, Exodusofman?
no but at 3k you get 6 multiples for specials
A solid list. It depressed me to see the General go, mainly because every empire player I've ever done battle with has used a similar Arch Lector build (personally, I'd just drop the War Altar and give him a Ward save, to save some points and protect him better), but it is good, and easily the most competitive build.
well of course the general of the empie is the wost lord in the whole game
As for the Flagellants, I think they're best at holding down a scary unit for a turn or two, outside of your general and BSB's bubbles, to buy you enough time to get in there yourself. You've got a decent mix of hand-to-hand and shooting (emphasis on the latter, but that's empire for ya'), so I'd just try it out with what you've got so far.

why take a general a captan has the same states save fo 1 wound and is cheaper. generals simply suck

To be fair I really want to model a War Altar, so that is the sole purpose for keeping it in I'm sure i'll swap in and out of Lord choices, so its nice to have both. And thanks for the ideas about the state troops, never knew that before.

Fair enough; the War Altar is a great centerpiece. I saw a guy who modeled his to look like Star Gate, and said his Arch Lector was a time-traveler, and all his troops were different historical soldiers (not at all Warhammer cannon, but pretty funny). His Lector was a space marine terminator.

The WYSIWYG rules are really easy to bend, but I think they were made that way deliberately; they're there as a safeguard against players using proxies to gain some advantage through misunderstanding (what? oh, no, those chaos chosen models stand for my high elf archers).

And to Exodusofman: completely forgot about that Grand Army rule (a necessity, really). Thanks for that.

The General of the Empire isn't a strong combatant. He is one of the worst Lord choices, mainly because he's a regular dude. But with big blocks of mediocre troops, a Ld boost can be the only thing you really need out of your general.

The captain thing is a good point; what's the point difference on them? An extra wound means he'll hopefully die slower, and that, along with an extra 50pts of magical allowance, might be worth it if the point difference isn't horrendous.

And my point about the War Altar/Lector/Speculum wasn't that I wanted to see a General in its place, but that I've seen those three items used together so much, I would be completely shocked if I faced something else. (I always thought the mace that lets you hit once like a cannonball would be great fun with him; he's only got 2 attacks anyway).

I understand your point about the general and the LD bonus but all the other lords(save for wizard lord) have LD9 just like him and have the ability to fight. Granted the Grandmaster cant join units but he is still able to confer his LD to his units if hes within range. I normally run my Lector on foot in a halberdier unit nowadays anyway so his ld spread works nicely.

The captain and general have a 40pt difference. 40pts for a wound and LD isnt worth it imo. Even captains all you eally want to give them is full plate and a shield(unless you give him a great weapon) and maybe a pistol just so he can add a few s4 attacks to the unit he is accompanying.

I wil agree with you on the fact that everyone(inculding me) kits their Lector out the same and it does get rather boring. Thats why from time to time ill switch my list up. Sometimes a Grandmaster with holy relic and sword of power(2+ as 4+ ward 4 s6 attacks pretty good) Wizard lord with grey wand(sometimes book of ashur) and a ward or a bound item. Special Characters are nice too Karl Franz is good but you need to be wary as to not put too many upgrades on him. Barded steed and Ghal Maraz is fine. Kurt Helborgs also nice but i advise putting a warrior priest in the unit to give t hatred and give Kurt a 4+ ward

I have found that the only time I take a general is when I want to take my great swords, so I can give them a magic banner.

And at that he only has full plate and a great weapon (or a shield depending on which model I want to use) so he isn't too expensive. And, there is almost no other point to him besides getting a banner for a unit of state troops. Anything he can do, another character can do better. Even riding a griffon seems to be out now.

Even at that, it is only in bigger games so I can still run an Arch Lector and a Wizard lord, both of which can easily fit in to a 2000pts list.

My main point is that he is the cheapest way to get Ld9, no? So a General with a 4+ Ward and a decent armour save is still a durable character-as durable as any of the others with the same gear-and he's cheaper.

I don't think he's the most competitve option out there, but I do think he's at least somewhat viable; you get Ld9 for as cheap as possible, which means you can have more bodies in your army than before. That is his advantage. It doesn't make up for his disadvantages, but it's there.

He is the cheapest way to get LD9 but once you start giving him stuff like 4+ward magic weapon armour w.e you realize I could have an arch lector who is a fighter(once you unleash mirror of nonsense) and a decent caster also you dont need to buy a lector a 4+ ward as you can just cast it. I understand the point of the General of the Empire its more for fluff than anything really. I honestly think what they should do in the next book is allow you to take a general but then upgrade him to one of the named Electors each of which would have their own abilities. like Marius Lieftdorf could get a bonus to his parry save thanx to his parrying dagger.Alderbrand Ludenhof can use a hochland long rifle,Boris Todbringer extendd LD range stuff like that.If they did that I woul use a general moe often

Or if the General got the Runefang for free then he would be much better.

I'd much rather go with a 45pt 4+ Ward than attempting to cast it...