Why does everyone hate Abaddon?

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**CommissarCandlestick**

So why is he so hated? Is it really just lack of mobility (I've heard he needs a Land Raider) and the resulting high points cost or is there something else?

**wizard12**

Isn't there quite a high chance he'll kill himself on top of those problems?

**Just Dave**

Well, the chances of him killing himself are very low, but it's still a chance.

It's basically his COST, lack of mobility, potential to shoot himself in the foot and comparison to Daemon Princes. The case with pretty much all the Chaos HQ's is 'why not take a Daemon Prince instead'?

Abbadon is a very powerful character, but he's by no means cheap or a light investment. In a bubble/just on paper, he's possibly the best SC out there, when you put him in a game context, it goes downhill fast...

**CommissarCandlestick**

And it seems that almost every time someone deep strikes him, he dies...

**GamzaTheChaos**

Its hard to make him make up for his point cost. no doubt he is a beast in CC and can take down just about anything. but he will most likely have to kill about 2 squads to make up his points and 1-2 more for his landraider lol. my friend ALWAYS play him with berzerkers in a landraider and it kills anything it touches but he only ever sees about 1 close combat before he dies as I just throw demolisher cannons into his group.

Last game I played I put 2 demolisher cannons into his squad inflicting 17 wounds he got his 4+ cover and the entire squad died and Abaddon took 3 wounds =| after that he rolled a 1 for his armor save when i rapid fired a bolter into him xD. but thats after he killed about 210 points worth of stuff? including him chopping my HQ in half.

hes a beast but he cost too much IMO

**Jaon**

How does an SC take 3 wounds from 2 demolisher cannons might I ask?

**Formosa**

he has eternal warrior, Abbadons problem is the hight cost, your talking 500pts (raider plus abby) to use him effectively

**Brother SRM**

My problem with him is his godawful model. Some models from the early 90's have aged quite well, but his hasn't.

**shealyr**

I'm pretty sure this is why he gets so much hatred:

**DarthDiggler**

He is expensive, but he delivers in combat. Abbey has to be accounted for when played. He is weaker against MSU lists which are all the rage. I think for his points cost he needs an army wide ability much like Logan for the SW. If he only could make Chosen/Termies into troop choices, then I think you would see lots of chaos lists use him.

I have an idea for putting him in a large deep striking termie unit with a temie sorcerer with Lash. Otherwise most people need a LR to get him someplace. However the model is not huge and he is tough enough that he could just run up behind a couple of rhino's.

**samius**

i dont play chaos, but in the apocalypse WD he deepstruck onto the imperial objective and killed a ton of people.

**MechaEmperor7000**

The only other characters that can be compared to him are Logan Grimnar and Marneus Calgar. Grimnar is the top among the three because he actually provides a benefitial buff in-game and lets you take Loganwing, which is so much better for the points than Abby, who basicallly hoards all of the goodies and points to his lonesome 4 wound self. Grimnar and his buffed army of Wolf Terminators can make back his points many times over.

**Gorskar.da.Lost**

I quite like Abbs personally, though he's a little expensive for my tastes. Still, he can really kick ass and take names when he's called upon to do so.

**Samus_aran115**

Abaddon can beat mephiston in CC. Reason enough to use him, IMO. Plus, that whole "luna wolves killed sanguinius' thing is pretty cool too

Aside from that, he's a freaking monster. He can basically put out as much damage as an entire terminator unit by himself.

I don't think 'hate' is the right word here, just 'why not take a DP?" Comes to mind.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

shealyr wrote:I'm pretty sure this is why he gets so much hatred:

Quite true. He's so much smaller than even regular terminators, it's funny

Forget about a Termy lord. That model is going on 12 years or so now....

**MechaEmperor7000**

What I cant get over on the model is that flintstone's Vitamin sword. Seriously it looks more like a blundgeon weapon than a cutting one.

**Hlaine Larkin mk2**

one guy i know uses him with 20 man retinue and used him in a tourney
Game 1- Against loyalist gun line abbadon didnt reach combat(The guy who uses him is really slow so only got to turn 3)
Game 2- Against my Khorne mechlist Loses half his retinue to two preds in one turn and watch 20 berserkers sweep away his 12 nerserkers greater daemon and abbadon and his retinue having shot himself in the foot.

**Generalstoner**

I am surprised that FW has not redone models of single characters like Abaddon and the like that are very outdated.

**Samus_aran115**

Generalstoner wrote:I am surprised that FW has not redone models of single characters like Abaddon and the like that are very outdated.

Kharne was sculpted by jes goodwin way back in 1998, and I have to say, it's still a stunning model. It'll look just as good in another 12 years, I think.

But abaddon really needs to be redone. His fluff even describes him as a monster of a man, which would imply that he's TALLER than a basic terminator

He's never been really tall, come to think of it. He's roughly the same height as the res of the OOP guys.

**Darien13**

I like abbadon, but yeah some don't like him
Mainly because Abbadon + the Abbadon Delivery System costs a large amount of points
You shouldn't use him in lists that aren't 2000 points or higher, otherwise his price is just too much
The daemon weapon issue is just annoying, but not a reason to not take him.
And yes, the model could be better.
The forgeworld one is sick though

EDIT: I'm not sure if forgeworld still makes it, but here's an abbadon model from them

**Black Fiend**

If Kharn was in charge Chaos would rule the Imperium.

I hate Abby because of all the teens who posted 'Lupercal Lupercal!'

**Amaya**

Non Chaos players dislike him because he is so dominant in CC. If he gets into CC and doesn't roll 1s he can mow down anything in the game. I6 S8 attacks are insane.

Chaos players dislike him because has a high cost, doesn't buff other units, lacks mobility, and can kill himself.

I don't like him because I dislike SCs in general and think that he marked the return to the herohammer SCs that we're beginning to see now.

**Black Fiend**

There has always been hero hammer in 40k, it just in 5th edition along with Eldradavatar that GW decided to define all the rules. Some armies like SW can still custom design their own monsters.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Samus_aran115 wrote:
Generalstoner wrote:I am surprised that FW has not redone models of single characters like Abaddon and the like that are very outdated.

Kharne was sculpted by jes goodwin way back in 1998, and I have to say, it's still a stunning model. It'll look just as good in another 12 years, I think.

But abaddon really needs to be redone. His fluff even describes him as a monster of a man, which would imply that he's TALLER than a basic terminator

He's never been really tall, come to think of it. He's roughly the same height as the res of the OOP guys.

His sculpt when put next to an old metal terminator is rather large. He's the same size as a normal Termie now mainly due to the size creep GW models have been going through.

**Samus_aran115**

Yeah, and he used to have a 2+ save too

Made him worth the size, I suppose

I hear they made terminators smaller so it was easier to convert them, what with almost everything being metal back then.

**ChronoCupcake**

Brother SRM wrote:My problem with him is his godawful model. Some models from the early 90's have aged quite well, but his hasn't.

You could try to dig up the forgeworld model which looks incredibly awesome but its really limited afaik

**ChiliPowderKeg**

He has a topknot. A LOT of things with topknots in the warhammer universe tend to generate spontaneus loads of hate.

**Darien13**

Haha I cut the topknots off all my csm

**LordWynne**

I dont hate Abby, I choose not to use him point wise he is not all that great. I prefer a Gen Chaos Lord in termi armor with Mark of Khorne and the Khorne Deamon weapon he is much better in CC and cheeper, yes he can kill himself to but it never happened as I played him.

**Happygrunt**

The top-knot of failure. And 13 crusades, only a small foothold on Cadia with no support in space. He has a history of fail.

**Darien13**

Well they can't let chaos win cadia otherwise cadian ig wouldn't exist!
But yeah 13 is a lot of suck haha
on the topknot issue, I was thinking on replacing his head with the forgeworld lord zhufor head for a while, or a normal chaos term head