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Hey everyone, so I've decided to delve into the fantasy world after having been a long time player of 40K and Warmachine/Hordes. I've decided High Elves look interesting and no I'm not making another army based around Teclis. He seems rather boring for everyone involved. While I don't plan on doing tournaments or anything with this army (yet at least) I did want it to be somewhat competitive. I REALLY liked the look and fluff of the White Lions, so I decided I'm going to convert the army to look like them and heavily feature them, so keep that in mind when reading the list.

Korhil
- Lion Chariot
270

Mage - Level 1
- High magic
- Jewel of the Dusk
115

Mage - Level 1
- High magic
- Silver wand
110

42 Spearelves
- Full Command
403

10 Archers
- Musician
115

14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

8 Dragon Princes of Caledor
- Musician
250

TOTAL: 1999

Explanations:

- Drain Magic and some buffs here and there from the mages, who now escort the Archers.
- 3 Chariots hit the same unit or two to hold them up/possibly kill them.
- White Lions support the spear brick hopefully overwhelming my opponent.
- Dragon Princes go where they are needed.

EDIT: Updated the list.

You're unfortunatly 20 pts over on your heroes, so you'll have to drop 20 pts there somewhere. Perhpas exchanging the annulian crystal for something else.

I like the idea of the list and the whole fast working with slow things is good, in fact it's the kind of list i'd use (though admittedly more in 40k). However i think you might need to go even faster to take out some war machines, so a cheap as chips great eagle would be a good addition.

A good start though

Swap 8 silver helms for 6 dragon princes.
You'll go from 8 S5 attacks to 12 S5; along with +1 WS, Init, Ld, and a 2+ ward vs fire.

Silver helms are... lacking.


-Matt

I really like the theme, it is pretty much what I would want to do. I would like to hear how it does for you. I haven't ever played against or with HE so I can't give any advice really, but I wonder if you wouldn't want to pick up a BSB, although all your white lions are stubborn. I also like the other ideas of dragon princes and a great eagle. What do you think you would add for higher point games?

Eldar Own wrote:You're unfortunatly 20 pts over on your heroes, so you'll have to drop 20 pts there somewhere. Perhpas exchanging the annulian crystal for something else.

I like the idea of the list and the whole fast working with slow things is good, in fact it's the kind of list i'd use (though admittedly more in 40k). However i think you might need to go even faster to take out some war machines, so a cheap as chips great eagle would be a good addition.

A good start though

Good call on the Heroes points, I completely forgot about that. I don't know what to drop in favor of the War Eagle(s). I see the point in having something even faster, but I just don't know how to fit them in without dropping the overall effectiveness of the list. Thoughts?

HawaiiMatt wrote:Swap 8 silver helms for 6 dragon princes.
You'll go from 8 S5 attacks to 12 S5; along with +1 WS, Init, Ld, and a 2+ ward vs fire.

Silver helms are... lacking.


-Matt

I had originally wanted the Princes over the Helms, but I didn't have the points. I've rearranged the Seaguard which will give me some room, so now I have 8 Dragon Princes and a Musician.

boogeyman wrote:I really like the theme, it is pretty much what I would want to do. I would like to hear how it does for you. I haven't ever played against or with HE so I can't give any advice really, but I wonder if you wouldn't want to pick up a BSB, although all your white lions are stubborn. I also like the other ideas of dragon princes and a great eagle. What do you think you would add for higher point games?

A BSB may be useful, though I'm not sure it'll be overly necessary. All of the elves have somewhat high leadership as is. At higher points I would definitely stick in a great eagle or two, probably an Archmage with Life magic to bring back troops and probably either bolt throwers or archers to give the list some more ranged punch.

Here's the new list, and I've edited the first post to include it:

Korhil
- Lion Chariot
270

Mage - Level 1
- High magic
- Jewel of the Dusk
115

Mage - Level 1
- High magic
- Silver wand
110

38 Seaguard
- Shields
- Full Command
519

14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

8 Dragon Princes of Caledor
- Musician
250

TOTAL: 2000

For what it is worth, I really like that list. I will have to copy it when I get around to collecting HE.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a HE list without any bolt throwers. Nice list.

Dawn of a new Warlord wrote:
Here's the new list, and I've edited the first post to include it:

Korhil
- Lion Chariot
270

Mage - Level 1
- High magic
- Jewel of the Dusk
115

Mage - Level 1
- High magic
- Silver wand
110

38 Seaguard
- Shields
- Full Command
519

14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

8 Dragon Princes of Caledor
- Musician
250

TOTAL: 2000

The one concern i have is about where you'll put your mages. As far as i can see you'll put the both in the seaguard, which is not really what you want. I take it you're using the seaguard as an anvil? A large unit that can deal reasonable damage while being hard to shift and is used to tie up elite units ready for a counter charge from stronger untis, in this case dragon princes or white lions? This proves problematic (fancy word there) as your mages will inevitably fall prey to challenges from characters or even strong unit champions.

It's better though

Eldar Own wrote:The one concern i have is about where you'll put your mages. As far as i can see you'll put the both in the seaguard, which is not really what you want. I take it you're using the seaguard as an anvil? A large unit that can deal reasonable damage while being hard to shift and is used to tie up elite units ready for a counter charge from stronger untis, in this case dragon princes or white lions? This proves problematic (fancy word there) as your mages will inevitably fall prey to challenges from characters or even strong unit champions.

It's better though

Couldn't I simply refuse the challenge? I'm not overly familiar with the rules yet, but he book seems to indicate if I refuse a challenge with my mages they just end up in the back of the brick anyway, which is where I think I'd want them. Is this not doable?

Dawn of a new Warlord wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:The one concern i have is about where you'll put your mages. As far as i can see you'll put the both in the seaguard, which is not really what you want. I take it you're using the seaguard as an anvil? A large unit that can deal reasonable damage while being hard to shift and is used to tie up elite units ready for a counter charge from stronger untis, in this case dragon princes or white lions? This proves problematic (fancy word there) as your mages will inevitably fall prey to challenges from characters or even strong unit champions.

It's better though

Couldn't I simply refuse the challenge? I'm not overly familiar with the rules yet, but he book seems to indicate if I refuse a challenge with my mages they just end up in the back of the brick anyway, which is where I think I'd want them. Is this not doable?

True, but a character can, i think, not issue a challenge and just allocate his attacks on to your mages.

thats true. you could invest in a small unit of spearmen or something to put your mage in. keep them at distance where you can do spells.

Or even better, archers, which actually have a use at a distance, so you can be shooting as well as providing a bodyguard.

If I do that, then I'd probably want to take Spearmen in favour of the Sea Guard since the whole point of them is to give me a combined ranged and melee threat. It also helps keep my model count up, which I believe would be a good thing.

New List take III:

HEROES
Korhil
- Lion Chariot
270

Mage - Level 1
- High magic
- Jewel of the Dusk
115

Mage - Level 1
- High magic
- Silver wand
110

CORE:
30 Spearmen
- Full Command
295

10 Archers
110

10 Archers
110

SPECIAL:
14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

8 Dragon Princes of Caledor
- Musician
250

TOTAL: 1996

I'm not sure how I feel about this one yet. The archers just seem too easy to take down, but that could just be my inexperience talking. Does the list look better? Worse?

I still like your second list the best. It seems to have a theme. I understand it is harder to kill two mages than to kill one. However, since you are having a hard time finding two spots for them could you just upgrade one to a level 2 and then drop the second one. Those extra points can be spent on something else, maybe that great eagle?

you could drop one lion chariot, and put two tiranoc. that would boost your impact hits, but dont expect much from them in cc.

also i would use an archmage (propably drop the other characters).

but i have to say that i find themed armies difficult to work and not as competitive.

The lion chariots are not going. As I stated in my original post, the idea was to create a theme that could be somewhat competitive (read: not get my ass spanked in friendly games and hold my own though probably not crush my opponent in more competitive games). I like the white lions and have plans to convert most of the models in this army to look like them.

I agree with you Boogeyman, I like the second list the best so far, though I do see the two mages being upfront in the same unit being a huge problem. I could drop their special gear and give them both a mount which would allow them to get away from incoming threats. Any thoughts on that? I just need them alive somewhere on the board to cast Drain Magic. Every other spell is just a bonus after that.

Why not just stick one of the mages in with a white lion unit? They can still jump out when it looks like they will be in close combat

I think I've come up with a solution to the mage issue. Since the goal is only to shut down enemy magic, I can take 1 mage in the list with Folaritah's Robe. This will make him immune from challenges and the like (I think). And since the goal is simply to shut down enemy magic, and he'll only be targetable by enemy magic, if I succeed he should be untouchable. With the extra 5 points I gave him an enchanted shield, just to give him the same armor as the seaguard he'll be accompanying.

Mages can cast as many renditions of the same spell as they want in a turn so long as it isn't a remain in play, right? Or in other words this one guy can cast drain magic as many times as I have dice, right?

With the remaining points I can buy three more Seaguard:

HEROES
Korhil
- Lion Chariot
270

Mage - Level 2
- High magic
- Folaritah's Robe
- Enchanted shield
185

CORE
41 Seaguard
- Shields
- Full Command
558

SPECIAL
14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

8 Dragon Princes of Caledor
- Musician
250

TOTAL: 1999

Thoughts?

EDIT: Ha ha, so guess what I just found out? My lists aren't legal. At 2000 points I have to have 2+ Core choices...SO I now have a unit which the Mages can sit comfortably in. Can't believe I missed that...

REAL LIST:

Korhil
- Lion Chariot
270

Mage - Level 1
- High magic
- Jewel of the Dusk
115

Mage - Level 1
- High magic
- Silver wand
110

42 Spearelves
- Full Command
403

10 Archers
- Musician
115

14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

14 White Lions
- Champion
- Musician
228

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

Lion Chariot of Chrace
140

8 Dragon Princes of Caledor
- Musician
250

TOTAL: 1999

So same story as before:

- Drain Magic and some buffs here and there from the mages, who now escort the Archers.
- 3 Chariots hit the same unit or two to hold them up/possibly kill them.
- White Lions support the spear brick hopefully overwhelming my opponent.
- Dragon Princes go where they are needed.

I've edited the first post to include this now legal list. I liked the seaguard brick better, but rules are rules. At least my mages will be safe now.

Well, you only have to have 3+ units in 8th and 25 % core... nothing says you have to have 2 core choices.

Do you feel like this list is effective? It's definitely more MSU than a lot of lists what with the multitude of drops (exceptions being for the 8 cavalry and 42 spearmen).
I play mostly lizardmen and last week my cold ones wrecked house against most things. I had 8 of them in a line (mostly so that I could fit them in my deployment zone where I wanted them). They charged a cannon that was deployed forward, overran into a group of knights and then they received a rear charge from halberdiers and chased them down. Dragon princes are just as powerful on the charge, faster, not stupid and get a 2+ save vs fire(such as hydras...). I like them. Do you feel like 8 is as good as 2 units of 5? I get that they are more expensive but you also get their full complement of attacks.

I say all this, but I don't know where you're going to get the points from... haha. You do have about 18 points over in core so maybe that's a start?