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Hello Dakka, I was wondering how many points you allow your opponent to be. For instance, if you're a 1500pt game and someone brings a 1508 list, do you allow it? Maybe if they let you have 8 extra points? How does this differ in a tournament setting? Thank you!

It would depend on the situation. And the opponent.

In a tournament setting there shouldn't be any leeway at all. The points limit is the limit. That's why it's called a limit.

In a friendly game, I'll generally not mind a few points here or there if you're making a list up on the spot. If you're walking into a gaming session with a prepared list though, frankly there's no excuse for being over.

I wouldn't refuse to play, particularly if given time to adjust my own list accordingly... but I do consider it poor form.

In a tournament, whatever the points is listed is the hard cap.

In friendly games, I like to play not even 1 pt over.

Sometimes though, you get to the shop and someone has to throw a list together to play you. If they are struggling to cut something out and they are like 3-4pts over (in a 1500pt game, say) I don't really care too much and would rather just get to gaming. In a 1000pts, I would let them go over 1-2pts.

Like it's been said, in a competitive battle, the limit is the absolute limit.

However, in a friendly match purely for fun, depending on what they are running I let people go as far as 20 points over. If there is no way of lowering the points without A) ruining the army and b) running under points by more than 10-20 (eg. sanguine guard army) than I think it's ok. But if you can lower the total without doing either of those, than do it.

And in a themed game, it's dictated by the theme. If I was re-enacting the first companies last stand on macragge for example, the nids would have maybe a thousand or more points more than me.

99% of the time, competitive or friendly game or what-have-you, I allow 0 points over and expect my opponent to do the same.

my general rule for friendly games is 1%... if they're up to 1% over, i don't really care as long as they tell me; i'll just add an extra upgrade to a character or vehicle and call it a day. so, 2000pt game, 20pts. anything more and i'm too tempted to retweak my list and waste time not gaming.

tournies? zero points. if you're coming to a tourney with more points than allowed, you should be disqualified or at the bare minimum have your OPPONENT decide what to drop.

*insert_pun_here* wrote: If there is no way of lowering the points without A) ruining the army and b) running under points by more than 10-20 (eg. sanguine guard army) than I think it's ok.

I'm a little curious as to how you define 'ruining the army'... The whole point of playing to a points limit is that it limits what you can take. Designing an army that works within that limit is kind of the point of it.

For the group i usually game with, it largely depends on the type of game...

If its a 2v2 game, then one person might "need" to go over points limit, but as long as his team mate is slightly short its ok.

we also try to keep things relatively WYSIWYG, and if a flamer puts your army over by a couple points then we'll just roll with it. Beyond that, we keep everything light hearted, games are full of sound effects and joking about the visualisations of the battle, so getting in to the game itself is more important than figuring out if you can get your list under the points limit if its close.

10 points is the limit for me. However I tend to have a few "extra" option penned for jsut such an occasion. However it depends on the difference between my actual army. if my army is already 10 points below the limit (sometimes 9 or 7 for various reasons) I would not give them any leeway as I'm already handicapped from the limit (unless the only alternative to lowering their point cost was to take away a considerable chunk, like a Plague Marine or Thunder Hammer).

chaplaingrabthar wrote:99% of the time, competitive or friendly game or what-have-you, I allow 0 points over and expect my opponent to do the same.

That is the way you should play. I'm sorry, but going over points is not cool, bro.

Depends, for a new player I'd probably give them 5-10 points for the first few games for basic list errors while helping them prepare better for the next encounter.

After a few games... probably 2 points. Anything above that is a full weapon (Storm Bolter for ex.) and they can just drop that from there commander and learn for next time.

Depends on the situation. As someone else said, if the lists were prepared ahead of time, I would expect them to be exactly at the limit.

If we made them up on the fly, I'd allow a 1% overage.

Since I only play with friends, in neither case would I be a big jerk about it, since I play for fun and not for competition.

Yeah, I reckon 10 to 20 points is okay. That way, if you lose, you can always blame it on the extra points. Nothing like being a passive sore loser!

0

0, the point limit is a limit not a guideline. If you come to a 1500 point game with 1520 or something, then why not just make it a 1520 game instead.

n0t_u wrote:0, the point limit is a limit not a guideline. If you come to a 1500 point game with 1520 or something, then why not just make it a 1520 game instead.

well, let me amend my earlier statement, since you do raise a good point.

Since I only play with friends, I've got no problem allowing 1% over if we didn't do preformed lists. I'd rather spend time playing once we're all together and ready then arguing about something which I don't consider very important. I respect that other people play to compete, but that's not why I play, so - 1%, no problem. It's certainly frowned upon but we're not going to fight about it.

Of course, if I allow them 1%, then I'm going to give an extra upgrade to one of my squads to match.

If it's a random pickup game, saying that you're a few points over is actually an indirect way of asking to increase the point limit by a few points, as far as I can tell. A 1500 point limit is just as arbitrary as a 1525 point limit (and vice versa), so increasing the point limit for both players is fine.

Otherwise, it just seems silly to start the game out asking for a minor advantage of "just a few extra points". Unless someone has one of those magical "all options divisible by 5 points" codices, I'd expect most armies to end up slightly below the agreed point limit, and a person should get used to that.

Didn't we just have this thread like a week or so ago?

Personally, I always tailor my lists to be 0 points over, and I expect my opponent to do the same.

One or two points over in a friendly game doesn't bother me, and I'll stretch that to 10points if my opponant is very young (like 10 or something.)

Against someone my own age, however, I would prefer that we have the same points value exactly.

Valhallan42nd wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:99% of the time, competitive or friendly game or what-have-you, I allow 0 points over and expect my opponent to do the same.

That is the way you should play. I'm sorry, but going over points is not cool, bro.

I agree, we are pretty strict about that in our club.

I don't like going over at all, but so long as it's not a competitive setting, I find the rule of "no more than half the cost of your cheapest model (rounded down)" to be fine leeway. Still, you should try your very best to make sure that your army fits under the limit. It's poor form to do otherwise. Just because some opponents will allow you to go a little over the limit doesn't mean you should.

Probably, and the week before that I would imagine.

Peronally I'm pretty easy going when gaming [even in tournament setrtings] and not too bothered by a few points but I do find it hard to understand why people would do this for a pre-planned game. Just smacks of lazyness and a lack of consideration for your opponent [or at worst WAAC-ism!].

PV will be 1000pts see you saturday. When saturday arrives you shouldn't be standing there saying that "I have 1005pts, my army wouldn't have worked otherwise". It can be hard to get dead on the limit but there in lies the pre-game challenge.

Pre-arranged and agreed its okay especially if someone wanted to try out a particular option or strategy with friends.

I did have this at a friendly tournament recently, one chap announced before the the event he couldn't meet the points limit and it was agreed by all that it was okay.

I played against him and during play his units seemed to have nearly all grenade options available for them and a plethora of special weapons. Although I was absolutely fine with the points before the game I couldn't help thinking that when you're standing there watching an enemy unit expend numerous special weapons options and then a demo charge "you really couldn't drop a single one of those to meet the PV?". In the same game I was actually playing 5pts short. Soured the aftertaste of the experience a little for me but not a big deal in the scheme of things.

I suppose the question is whether that extra 1-2% really makes a difference. In the example I give above the game finished really close, I lost but if I could have put another wound on a T3 HQ it would have been a draw. Makes you think.

Capt_Bowman wrote:Depends, for a new player I'd probably give them 5-10 points for the first few games for basic list errors while helping them prepare better for the next encounter.

After a few games... probably 2 points. Anything above that is a full weapon (Storm Bolter for ex.) and they can just drop that from there commander and learn for next time.

This is my view on it. If the points difference exceeds the cost of a (non-standard) weapon, then that weapon should be dropped from the list. If its just 1-2 points however, I'll let it slide.

Typically, our group either allows a player to borrow from their partner/s (in a team game) or allow their opponent the same points value. I will often rearrange my list to get it to fit better (drop a Nob Biker, and replace him with a regular nob and a couple extra boyz for example)

Tournaments, no lee-way.

Friendlies, I'm inclined to give some slack if they've adjusted their army on the spot. I'll also give some slack to folks that are 100% WYSIWYG as that makes it much harder to tweak the last few points.

When I first started learning how to play I was quite bad about going over. Luckily, the people I played with were quite lenient. In a friendly game, I wouldn't care if my opponent was 50 points over.

These days I stay under the point limit, but outside of a tournament I think anyone who would get their nose out of joint over an army man imbalance is maybe taking things a bit too seriously.

I'll allow a zero point breach of the maximum allowed.

5 points is the difference between a Mortar and an Autocannon. It makes a hell of a lot of difference to the Rhino heading towards you.

3 points allows for a Singing Spear upgrade. Make a lot of difference to the Land Raider nearby. Plus I get to hear about how his Warlock killed my Land Raider forever.

Saying; "It's just 1 point. It doesn't make a lot of difference" is a huge fallacy. That 1 point might be part of a larger chunk of points that makes it possible to field that extra Hive Guard, Terminator, Meltagun or whatever.

Saying; "Just add a Melta Bomb to one of our Sergeants and we are even" is a fallacy. Said squad might not have been taken to move aggresively forwards....making the upgrade utterly pointless. Hell, it might even induce me to stray from the basic tenents of my battleplan, which I had in mind when I made the armylist. Maybe I even considered giving him a Melta Bomb but discarded the idea because it was a useless waste of points.....and now I add it again to compensate for your unwillingness to follow the rules?

If 5 points is no big deal, then remove them. They are "no big deal", remember?

Thank you for putting me in a situation where I, by saying "no", is denying you your "right to have fun". I am not really given a choice. You broke the rules/agreement and suddenly I'M the TFG?!?

We have to set the limit somewhere....and that might as well be at the limit agreed upon beforehand.

I think Steelmage said it pretty well. It's not like it's hard to meet points.

Fafnir wrote:I find the rule of "no more than half the cost of your cheapest model (rounded down)" to be fine leeway.

Nooo why'd I have to take those Gretchin!


Seriously though, I'm firmly in the 'point limit is the point limit' camp. I don't care if you have to drop a Terminator now, should've thought of that when you made the list.

If I can rebuild lists from scratch because they were 2 points over, so can you.