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Hi all.

I've started again with WK40k after 20 years. The game's changed a bit since RT.

This is the army I'm putting together to start off with:

Farseer (130pts) Doom, Fortune, Guide, Witchblade
5x Howling Banshees (113pts) + Exarch-Triskele and Shuriken Pistol
8x Dire Avenger (240pts) + Exarch-2 Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm - WS TL Shuriken Cannons, TL Shuriken Catapults
10x Guardians (245pts) , EML + Warlock, Embolden, Witchblade - WS TL Scatter Lasers, TL Shuriken Catapults
4x Swooping Hawks (132pts) + Exarch, Lasblaster, Skyleap
Wraithlord (140pts) - 2 Flamers, Scatter Lase, Starcannon

It's exactly 1000 points, but it's up for being ripped apart, as needed.

For anti-tank, there's the Swooping Hawks with haywire, the Starcannon on the Wraithlord and the Banshees.
Hopefully, there should be enough Scatter lasers for horde.
The Farseer's to stay with the DA squad, and the Writhlord with the Guardians.

I'm all ears on why it won't work. I'm likely up against SM and Orcs.

If your up against space marines 100% certain get dark reapers especially being ap3 meaning they get no armour saves and lso give the exarch a tempest launcher. For Orks get fire dragons. They have flame weaps.

Thought you might say that.

The Missus will do her nut when I tell her I'm getting more squads already
It all helps towards the 1500 point army I suppose
.

I play against an Eldar guy a lot so I know them pretty well. Here's the problems:

Farseer: with that many powers he really should have some Spirit Stones so he can cast 2. Also, Runes of Warding are a strong choice since almost every army nowadays has some powerful game breaking psyker power available.

Howling Banshees: The triskele is the weakest weapon option for them. I know it looks nice on paper, but if ever fired, it means you can't fleet, which is a big deal to them as you always want to get the charge. It should be noticed that while these girls rock against space marines and their cousins, they are all but pathetic waste of points against orks, since their whole strength is in slicing through armor, but their low S versus T compiled with the fact that orks don't have any armor to worry about anyway, makes them about as good as anything else in your list at CC, hardly worth the extra points.

Dire Avengers: well done. The extra exarch catapult is not really necessary if you need to drop something to free up points, it's just an afterthought, but all in all, these guys should gun it into position, guided by the farseer, drop out and bladestorm a doomed target and watch ork hordes crumble. The following turn, they hop back into their wave serpent and relocate while they reload. It is one of the best and most commonly used ways of Eldar using their basic troops. I haven't played or seen a single game against Eldar where this has not happened to their opponent. You know you can fit 12 models in a wave serpent, right? So if you can fit the points for that last fella in the squad, you can still ride the farseer with them.

Something else to consider is another farseer with fortune. Now they all ride together, reroll to hit, reroll to wound, and reroll their saves. If the points can be spared, he would cost 85, a heavy chunk, but it powers up your one power combo that much more.

Guardians: don't bother IMO. They are horrendously bad for their points cost compared to what other armies get. I can understand wanting the warlock for the wraith purposes, but the farseer can do that for you too. Guardians themselves are just a big squishy easy target with no range and shoot cross-eyed. It's not really their fault, they used to be comparatively okay, but so many new codex have come out that outclass them massively for less points. If you have to use them because that's what figs you have, I would suggest give them a scatterlaser to make up for lousy BS, not the EML. The points could be better spent on some rangers to fill your troop requirement if you have the figs for it, or more avengers though.

Wraithlord: your best loadout for AT is not a starcannon, which actually kind of sucks for its price (mathematically, scatterlasers do better and cost much less). A brightlance and EML combo work well together and take advantage of its comparatively higher BS for blowing up tanks or heavy infantry, but they are very expensive. A scatterlaser + shurken cannon for mowing down light infantry is a nice combo too. Actually anything BUT a starcannon works better.

Swooping Hawks: again like the guardians, just kind of suck for their cost. I have found that intercept is often worth the 5 points as it makes all the difference in case you come up against other skimmers, especially space marine land speeders, other Eldar, or Tau. It's nice to not need 6s to hit. The Hawks Talon or Sun Rifle are both decent weapon upgrades for their exarch. Can't argue with 6 pinning shots especially against the lousy armor of orks.

Wave Serpents: give one to the banshees, not to the guardians. The banshees will get chewed up really easily trying to advance without a transport. They are a very prime target to get shot to pieces by any opponent with half a brain so the faster they get stuck in combat the better. Also, (I assume you are adding the farseer to the avenger squad) both the transports are full of stuff that wants to get close. The difference between a shuriken cannon and a scatterlaser is most importantly its range. 1 extra potential hit is nice, but points are more valuable in other places I think, so since they will be closing into distance for a banshee charge or a hail of bladestorm, the shuriken cannon is an almost-as-good way to spend quite a few points less.


So without switching models, just weapons and upgrades, something like this:

HQ: farseer, spirit stones, doom, guide, ward runes 135

TR: Guardians (10), scatterlaser, warlock, embolden 125
TR: Dire Avengers(9), exarch, bladestorm, extra catapult 140

EL: Howling Banshees (6), exarch, executioner, acrobatic, 123

FA: Swooping Hawks (5), exarch, sunrifle, skyleap, intercept 152

HS: Wraithlord, shuriken cannon, EML, 2 flamers 125

transports:
wave serpent, twin shuriken cannon 100 (dire avengers)
wave serpent, twin shuriken cannon 100 (howling banshees)

That is, assuming I did my sums correctly, 1000 points.


---edit: regarding the dark reaper suggestion, I disagree. They are good at wiping out Marine types, but they are very very expensive pointswise, and they are easy targets for anything that deep strikes, unless your entire army is sitting back with them as a "static" playstyle. Reapers go well with other static units, like rangers, to sit back as a firebase, but the rest of the army doesn't seem to be heading in this direction. Since half the army is off zooming around in wave serpents, the only real protection they would have is the wraithlord, who is very slow and easy to lock up in CC. The guardians hanging back with them can hardly be considered protection as they would be swept away in cc versus just about anything that charges them.

One last thing, if you are looking to expand (wife permitting) One of the best cheapest squads you can add is a squad of fire dragons. Every experienced Eldar player uses them. Every experienced opponent of the Eldar hates them and for good reason. They do not, as another poster said, have flame weapons. They have 1 flame weapon as an option for the exarch. They have melta weapons, which mean popping tanks, heavy infantry, and putting wounds on monsterous creatures or instakilling characters, but they do NOT have enough rate-of-fire to kill masses and masses of orks. If you want to take a squad just for its flamers, use Storm Guardians they are far cheaper and get more flamers.

I see what you did there, thanks.

I'd only read the power bit of the Farseer, and skipped the wargear. Time to read a bit more.
The Guardians for plodding to get points, with escort duty secondary. Had forgotten the low BS they have.
Aren't Guardians best used with the Avatar?
I didn't think I'd seen Starcannons mentioned in anyone else's lists, so the Wraithlord change seems OK.
I've got to sit and plan the DA tactic correctly, so that helps lots.

I have heard that Guardians can do better with an avatar, but an Avatar usually gets used with fortune cast on him as he advances as he is just too tempting a target. There are an awful lot of S6 weapons out there and he has only so many wounds. This means getting a farseer too. In 1000 points thats a good chunk of points for an HQ that can easily get bogged down by a large wad of cheap grunts like ork boyz for instance.

It supposedly works well for large groups of STORM Guardians with the close combat weapons. Very large groups. As the Avatar makes them fearless, which frees up their attached Warlock to use a different power than embolden (which is the norm because they break so easily otherwise). The enhance power plus the extra attack and the ability to take flamers makes them very slightly less of a joke up close or in cc. I have only heard of this, never seen anyone actually do it. I am suspicious of it because Guardians, no matter how many there are, have a pathetic almost non-existant save and such a low toughness that they just die if sneezed on. Couple that with the ridiculously short range of their weapons and you have a unit of ineffective punks.

I have seen the occasional squad thrown in with a scatterlaser or EML and it sits back, like way way back, only participating by surviving long enough to jump on an objective late game and otherwise just plopping away at 36" with the scatterlaser, hoping that nobody takes them seriously enough to sidetrack a unit for a turn to go and swat them. In short, Guardians only survive because there are higher priority targets that might actually be dangerous. Most Eldar lists I have seen played or posted online use few or none, and prefer to fill the Troop slots of the FOC with rangers, avengers, or jetbikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A little more detail about the wave serpent tactic, best used with 1 shooting squad and 1 assaulting squad, looks something like this.

Begin the game with your serpents at the back edge, so nothing can deep strike behind them before they can get where you want them. As they move You will have them always end up back-to-back to deny any rear shots, taking full advantage of the energy field. So they will look like this < > instead of like this V V

On your first move, move your serpents to a position close enough to the target, moving as fast as needed, at the expense of shooting if necessary. When you finish moving them, the Serpent containing your assault unit should have its back hatch about 15" away from your desired target, assuming there is a straight path to it without having to move through difficult terrain, in which case you'll want to be closer. Do not dismount, just get in position. Remember to have them back to back facing away from each other. This prevents an enemy from getting close to your back hatch, and again, makes it very difficult to get a rear arc shot on either one since they obstruct view to their partner.

His turn, hope he doesn't blow you up.

Your next turn, Guide your bladestormers, Doom the assault target, move the Shooting transport away from its buddy, slow speed so it can shoot, closer to the target you intend to charge, disembark its passengers. Disembark the assaulting unit from the stationary wave serpent and advance them towards their intended target, conveniently closer now to the bladestormer's transport, which will be important.

During your shooting phase the big question is whether you should shoot at the same target you plan on assaulting. This depends on your target and how many models are in it, and on what else is nearby. You DON'T want to kill it all off in the shooting phase, or kill too many so that your assault can't reach. This is the decision where you will either decisively stomp on him or say "oops" afterwards. Ideally, your assaulters should ALMOST kill off the unit they are intended for, leaving them stuck in cc during your opponents turn and (if all goes according to plan) able to kill them all off with superior initiative during your opponents next assault phase.

Declare bladestorm. Roll a bunch of dice. Fire away with the serpents cannons too. Hope you cause lots of damage. You probably will if you picked an ideal target. Large squads are an ideal target. Large squads of Ork boyz the most ideal target.

Now, since your stationary transport's hatch was 15" away, and disembarked within 2" of its hatch, that means there are 13" between your closest model's base edge and their unit. Add on the 6" move, roll 1-6" of Fleet-of-foot, and you can charge the remaining 6" (or less depending on your fleet roll).

Roll lots of dice for your charging assault, kill lots of the poor doomed target before it hits back.

His turn: he shoots at you, hope for the best. If you picked your assault well and rolled statistically average-ish, you will have your banshees stuck in cc with a couple of stragglers who will most likely have inferior Initiative. They will kill off those on your opponents assault phase, having saved themselves from a round of being shot at in the open. Not much you can do to protect the bladestormers though. Their defense was hopefully hitting whatever nearby return fire unit so hard it can't shoot back much.

Your next turn, mount back up the Banshees into the Bladestormer's Serpent (which had moved closer on your previous turn, remember?), and move the bladesormers back into the Banshees transport which had been stationary so will be a bit behind them now. The Bladestormers can't shoot this turn anyway, so hop in! For the serpents moves, once they are all mounted up, reposition them for the next unfortunate target(s). So you can repeat the same process. If all goes reasonably average, you will be able to pull off 3 decisive combo attacks like this, on turns 2, 4, and 6, with 1, 3, and 5 being the reposition turns.

So that's the theory anyway. The practice is a bit different as the unexpected happens a lot, sometimes you kill something too quickly or not fast enough and end up caught taking more return fire, or a counter charge than you had planned on. This is the way it is, roll with it. Be prepared to charge your bladestormers into a cc to add some weight of numbers if the banshees get bogged down for instance. Can't fight a battle without losing something.

So, out of the battle force box, I'll be using the SW, and maybe splitting my DA squad to make another squad.
Lucky I got it cheap online.

With a change of heavy weapons, I'm looking at more DAs, some Rangers. Needs more Fire Dragons.

I think I'll stick with the Banshees and Swoops, as I just want to use the large template

Heck throw in what you got, points allowing, just get the loadout as right as possible man. Guardians are still scoring, and they still have a good weapon in the scatterlaser, just if you have other options in troops look to those. There are so many variations of approach since everybody is a specialist there are no wrong units, but everything has to work in combos to be effective. The trick is to get the right combos. Dragons however, are always useful to have a squad, but they can be overused with too many because the one thing they aren't good at is fighting plain old rank-and-file grunts. Don't let me discourage you from your Guardians, try them out too, I'm just warning you not to expect them to live long.

I didn't know you had the battleforce box. If its the one with the warwalker, keep that guy on the sidelines until you get 2 more of them. Kit them all out with scatterlasers and flank them as a single squad and you are coming in on a flank with 24 x S6 shots for 180 points. OUCH.

I've been playing eldar for a while now and just sone pointers on your list...

Put banshees in a serpent, bump them up to 8 man and drop the triskle for an executioner, with only one doom seer you will have a tough tine choosing what to doom, the banshees squad(possibly meaning they will kill too many and be left out in the open) or the squad the DA are shooting at..

Not to be harsh, but hawks and starcannons are not nearly enough anti rank.

The lord, if he's gonna be anti tank, make him EML and lance, expensive but very effective. Or make him cheap and RUN him at tanks lol.

Hawks are great at laying tmplates with skyleap, if they get near tanks unfortunately tough 3 4+SV means most things can wipe them off the board, but yes IF they get there any tank is dead lol

Plant a larger squad of guardians in cover, with a scatter laser and grab an objective lol.

And be careful, putting serpents back to back does not keep rear armor safe, remember the top if the serpent counts too..

Fire dragons are the best thing you have for anti tank, abuse them. And no flamers on them lol