Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Greetings all. Prompted by Somnicide to do some Batreps, I decided to document my games this past weekend. So putting my money where my mouth is I document my weekend's games. This game is versus Mahu's Blood Angels. We decided to prove a point that with exactly 25% coverage of mixed terrain (with a 1/3 being LOS blocking) that the game should be more of an even fight. So the mission rolled was Kill Points and a DoW setup. Ouch. Not a good mission for me. Oh well. Even with the +1, Mahu wins the roll and defers first turn to me. Here is the table setup:



The DE army:



The BA army:



Combat Drugs roll gives me a free pain token. This should help me tremendously. I deploy the Haemonculus in the Wracks' Venom in the center of the board to allow me maximum coverage with any units coming out of the portal. I leave 2 Ravagers, the Baron/ Hellions, Reavers, 1 foot Trueborn squad, and Wyches in reserve. Moving on 1st turn is 1 ravager, 2 mounted warrior squads, 1 foot Trueborn squad, and Trueborn squad in Venom. My plan is to use them to draw him into proximity of a WWP strike.

 

Mahu opts to move on 2 Stormravens + Furioso Dreadnoughts, 1 tactical squad in a pod, he holds the rest in reserve.  He chooses not to seize. With that, I begin my first turn.

Capt K's Turn 1:

The Wracks and Haemonculus disembark into cover and deploy the WWP. Their Venom moves flat out. The Ravager and Warrior squads move flat out. The other Venom mounted Trueborn move on 12" and disembarks into cover. I am basically giving my units every opportunity to weather the possible first turn beating.

 

Mahu's Turn 1: Both Stormravens flat out onto the table. The tactical Drop pod Deepstrikes next to one of the Raider mounted warrior squads. Tacticals rapid fire into the Raider shaking it. Both Stormravens shoot into the Ravager doing no damage.

 

Capt K's Turn 2: 

I catch a small break there as Mahu's shooting does nothing of significance. I need to really have a good turn of shooting here. For my reserves, I get both Reaver squads, 1 Trueborn on foot, and 1 Wyche squad. In the movement phase, 1 Reaver squad moves out of the WWP and bladevanes the tactical squad killing the PW sgt. and one marine. The trueborn DL unit on foot move into cover. Warriors get out to rapid fire tactical squad. Wyches move into position to assault the dreadnought assuming the Stormraven is destroyed in the shooting phase. The now empty Raider moves flat out away from the action. The other warrior squad moves 6" in Raider to set up some shots. I open my shooting phase by ravager shots into the first Stormraven. I miss with all of them. Next the True born squad shoots at it…and misses. The Raider that moved 6" shoots at it and misses. The blaster guy on board shoots and misses. For those that are counting…that's 8 lance shots that completely miss.  The last Trueborn squad shoots and shakes the other stormraven. Both venoms shoot at the tactical squad only causing 2 wounds and Mahu saves them both. Wow. My shooting did nothing this turn when I really needed it to. Well hopefully my assault on the Stormraven yields better results. The Wyches assault and blow up the Stormraven killing 2 Wyches, and 1 Warrior. I shake the furioso that's on board.  Well…at least I killed something. This isn't looking good though.



Mahu's Turn 2: 

Mahu's reserve rolls get him: An assault squad lead by Dante, with a Librarian and Priest joined, and his Rifleman dread in a pod. The Dread scatters 12" away from it's intended position, but lands next to the other pod. Dante lands on target next to the warrior squad on foot. In the shooting phase the Rifleman shoots down a ravager. The Librarian casts Fear of Darkness on the Reavers in cover. They pass their leadership test. The tactical squad opts to rapid fire into the other Reaver squad killing one. The last Stormraven splits it's fire shooting into the Reaver squad still in cover killing 3 and at the empty Raider doing no effects. Reaver squad passes it's morale. In the assault phase the dreadnought assaults the Wrack squad killing all the Wracks and the Haemonculus. Well, that turn could have been worse.

 




Capt K's Turn 3: 

My reserve rolls get me 2 Ravagers, and 1 Wyche squad. The Wyches move out from the WWP to set up some assaults. The 2 Ravagers move to the right corner of my table edge (which is why you can't see them). A Reaver squad moves behind the Rifleman dread to get melta shots on it and miss with both shots!  The second Reaver squad moves to shoot the Assault squad killing none. The two Venoms both shoot into the Assault squad killing none. Trueborn with Darklances shoot at Rifleman dread and both miss. The empty Raider shoots and kills the Stormraven.  In the assault phase, both Wyche squads move to assault the Assault squad lead by Dante and Co. Wyches win combat and Dante's unit passes morale and hit and runs away.  Wyches consolidate. Two turns of ineffective shooting is starting to doom my army.




Mahu's Turn 3:

His reserve rolls get him both speeders. Movement is minimal. In the shooting phase a Furioso flames Wyches killing 5. A speeder kills the Raider that has 5 warriors in it, Mahu wounds all 5 warriors and I proceed to fail all 5 saves. That's 2 KPs with one shot. The other speeder stuns and weapon destroys a Venom. Rifleman Dread shoots Reavers killing two despite being in cover and Going to Ground. The tactical squad shoots and kills 3 more Wyches…that squad is down to just 2 left. The other dread assaults the full strength Wyche squad, killing one. They in turn, shake it. Dantes unit multi charges both Trueborn units in cover, killing them all. The Reavers are assaulted by the Rifleman dread and they hold. 





Capt K's Turn 4:

My reserve rolls get me my Hellions with the Baron. Well this game has gotten out of hand. Horrible dice are plaguing my efforts to kill anything. I need to try to scoop up some easy KPs.In the movement phase, the remaining Reavers bladevane the Assault squad with no effect. Stupid FNP. In the shooting phase, the empty Raider shoots and kills a speeder.  A Ravager shoots at the Assault squad hitting only once…killing one. The warrior squad in cover shoots it's blaster at the other speeder and shakes it. The Hellions shoot at the tacticals, killing 2 they pass their morale check. In the assault phase, the Wyches kill the dreadnought. Hellions kill the tacticals, and the Reavers hold vs. the Rifleman. The remaining two Wyches assault both pods shaking them both.

 

Mahu's Turn 4:

Mahu's turn is quick since there isn't much left of his army. Dante's unit moves out of cover to go after the Wyches. Dante's unit assaults Wyches, killing them all. The other 2 Wyches try again to kill the pods and only weapon destroy one.  Rifleman dread wiffs it's attacks vs. the Reavers.

 

Capt K's Turn 5:

With this possibly being the last turn I desperately need to get some KPs and fast. I move the Hellions up to shoot the assault squad. This unit is carrying 3KPs on their own and Dante and the Librarian are both down to 1 wound each. In the shooting phase, the remaining Ravagers shoot the assault squad. Both Venoms shoot and only cause 1 casualty. Hellions dump their shots in and finish off everyone in the unit except Dante. The last warrior squad shoots the remaining speeder with a blaster and only weapon destroy it. !%@#%#!! In the assault phase, I attempt to charge Dante…but I'm short by about 1/8". The Rifleman dread finally breaks the Reavers and they flee off the board by rolling a 14" move. The last two Wyches shake the drop pods again.



Mahu's Turn 5:

With just about nothing left the turn is quick. The Rifleman dread shoots dead the last 2 Wyches. The speeder shoots at the warriors killing none. With one wound left, Dante decides it's not worth the risk and tries to get an easy KP by shooting the Venom, but misses. We roll for the game to continue and the game ends.



Final Score: 11KPs - 9KPs

Final thoughts: Man, this game was crazy. My dice were terrible all game and that really stopped me from pressing any advantage I may have had. The biggest mistake that I made was forgetting about the 3rd Trueborn squad with DLs in reserve. I forgot to move them on the table automatically in turn 5. That cost me 1 KP towards the final result. Overall, my plan would have worked, but missing all those shots, or failing to kill anything just bought Mahu's army more time to isolate the easy KPs and it put me in a big hole quickly. DE give KPs away like candy and there really is no way to prevent it without sacrificing the precious firepower you need. The more I play DE, the more they play like a faster version of Tau with moderate CC ability. Like the Tau, leadership is a huge weakness, and also like the Tau…if your dice decide to screw you in a shooting phase or two, it's very difficult, of not impossible to actually win your game. A close winnable game, but I came up short. Hopefully, Mahu can add his thoughts as well. My next game went much better though. I'll be posting that up soon.

Great report! Thanks for posting it and I can't wait for the next one!

A couple of things stood out to me - 1. you can't move flat out with a vehicle if passengers embark or debark - Shep and I learned that in our last game. I think it is page 70 if memory serves.

2nd I am so psyched to see the hellions doing well in both shooting and cc. I want desperately to include them but they just seem so unimpressive on paper. Do you find that they usually do so well or was this just because of the late arrival? Also, would you include them without the baron?

Thanks again, a great report against a brutal looking list! Can't wait for the next one.

Somnicide wrote:
2nd I am so psyched to see the hellions doing well in both shooting and cc. I want desperately to include them but they just seem so unimpressive on paper. Do you find that they usually do so well or was this just because of the late arrival? Also, would you include them without the baron?

From my own experience, I find that Hellions work well in large groups. I took a twenty man squad against a ten-man unit of TH/SS Sword Brethren Terminators. Through shooting and close combat, in a single turn they were able to wipe the squad out. They perform pretty well in situations like that - able to pile on attacks against units smaller than they. A squad of five hellions charged a unit of Assault Marines in cover with a Chaplain, and wiped them out without blinking. The only combat my Hellions have lost was against (get this) a Noise Marines squad. The bastards beat us back and caught us in a sweeping advance. Freak occurrence, I'm sure.

Great report! Thanks for posting it and I can't wait for the next one!

Thanks! I hope to get the next one up sometime today.

A couple of things stood out to me - 1. you can't move flat out with a vehicle if passengers embark or debark - Shep and I learned that in our last game. I think it is page 70 if memory serves.

Interesting. I missed that one. It so infrequent that I attempt that anyways. I'll make sure next time to remember to do that. One thing that stands out to me is the first picture. I took that before we rearranged the table. Lolz. I guess I didn't catch that last night when I posted the pictures.

2nd I am so psyched to see the hellions doing well in both shooting and cc. I want desperately to include them but they just seem so unimpressive on paper. Do you find that they usually do so well or was this just because of the late arrival? Also, would you include them without the baron?

I love the Hellions for the flexibility they bring for a pretty reasonable points cost. Their shooting has been a great benefit to me. Their close combat ability is definitely better than Wyches as the Strength 4 is a definite help. Combat drugs obviously makes their potential better as well. 95% of the time I put them in reserve. To me it makes sense since by the time they arrive, you should have killed some transports and they'll have a better chance at having targets. I usually run the Baron because the benefits for his points are too good to pass up with the type of DE build that I'm interested in running (a WWP list). His ability to buff a unit of Hellions can't hurt either.

Thanks again, a great report against a brutal looking list! Can't wait for the next one.

Yeah, AV12 skimmers that are immune to melta weapons and 2 furioso dreads was a difficult list. AV12 makes Dark Lignt weapons not as effective IMHO. I have plenty in my army, but as shown...if you have a bad turn or two, then you are in a serious hole. Ideally, if I would have remembered to bring those Trueborn on the table I would have only lost by one. So many close calls. The penetrating and glancing hits that did essentially nothing to the pods and my Heatlances wiffing everytime I'd shoot them made a big difference in the game IMHO. Like I said though, my next game was better.

It was a great game. One on average dice rolls I should have lost. One that if it went the distance, I would have been tabled.

Here was my list for reference:

Dante
Librarian w/ Unleash Rage, Fear of the Darkness, Jump Pack
Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump Pack
Furioso Dreadnought w/ Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor
Furioso Dreadnought w/ Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor
Full Assault Squad w/ 2 Meltaguns, Sergent w/ Power Weapon, Inferno Pistol
Full Tactical Squad w/ Meltagun, Missle Launcher, Sergent w/ Power Weapon in a Drop Pod
Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter, TML
Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter, TML
Rifleman Dread in a Pod
Storm Raven w/ TL Assault Cannon, TL MM, Hurricane Bolters, Extra Armor
Storm Raven w/ TL Assault Cannon, TL MM, Hurricane Bolters, Extra Armor


The army wasn't a competitive one by any stretch of the imagination. It was built around a theme and the models I had available at the time, a theme that I may take to a competitive level shortly, and was partially built around the fact that I have two Storm Ravens now and wanted to use both. I wanted to try a list that was nothing but Drop Pods, Storm Ravens, and Jump Packs. I was fairly impressed with how some of the units interacted, and I think with some refinement, there might be something to that theme.

Bloods Angels present an interesting problem to Dark Eldar, of all the armies, Blood Angels can field the highest amount of fast mobile shooting platforms with AV 12 and higher. I think, at the very least my, future Blood Angel lists will take advantage of this fact. The potential to upset ML spam Space Wolves as well makes me happy. I absolutely love the Blood Angels book, I am almost going a full year on this army and I am always finding something different to do.

The adage that Dark Light struggles against AV 12 and up is very true in this instance. I honestly can't see a competitive Dark Eldar army that relies solely on Darklight doing well if they are presented with more then 6 AV 12 and higher targets. You don't get substantial results from darklight weapons, and it takes an extremely high number of shots to do so. This is coming from a player who got his ass kicked by Dashofpepper's Venom Spam army. His list featured somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 DL shots. If you have that, then I can see you relying on DL weapons to carry your anti-tank, but if you want to actually explore the different options of your codex, you need more.

There where a few things that helped me. Dawn of War greatly favored my army, as I was able to do exactly what I needed to do with the Storm Ravens, in any other deployment, especially if he was going first, I would have had to reserve the storm ravens and risk them coming in piece meal. Dawn of war allowed me to just roll on with an automatic cover save. Getting to decide who goes first was another strong factor, as I was able to "force" him to go first, so my mostly deepstiking fast army had ample opportunity to react to his reserves rather then allow him to get the drop on me. Kill Points was another deciding factor. Dark Eldar bleed Kill Points like candy, the army presents a lot of "easy" kill points to get, which is what my focus was on. I knew I couldn't win a war of attrition, as his shooting could easily influence the outcome of this game, so trying to shut that down and get as many KPs as possible was the goal.

CK's dice where absolutely abismal, and mine where on the ball at key moments too. Just look how many attacks he directed to Dante and his unit once they arrived, taking less the average wounds and making more the average 3+/4+ helped me win the game. Passing a few critical cover saves helped as well.

However, you give CK average dice rolls, and a mission that wasn't KPs and I think I would have struggled harder then I did. Even in a favorable match up and horrible dice rolls on CK's part, I still was a turn or two from getting tabled.

Just wait till CK's next batrep, you can better see how his army plays. Spoiler, Heat Lances swing the game.

For my part, I will try and arrange another game with CK with a more competitive list,I think that would help explain some of the things he is doing with DE better, then my "for fun" theme list.

However, you give CK average dice rolls, and a mission that wasn't KPs and I think I would have struggled harder then I did. Even in a favorable match up and horrible dice rolls on CK's part, I still was a turn or two from getting tabled.

Yeah, looking back on it you were left with 2 empty pods, a rifleman dread, a speeder, and Dante with one wound left. Where I had 2 venoms, a warrior squad, 1 raider, 2 ravagers, 8 hellions + the baron, and 1 trueborn squad that I forgot to put on the table. It was a great game despite the loss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here was my list for reference:

Baron
Haemonculus with WWP, venom blade, stinger pistol, casket of flensing
4 man trueborn unit with 2 DLs
4 man trueborn unit with 2 DLs
3 man trueborn unit with 2 blasters mounted in venom with double cannons
5 man warrior squad with blaster mounted in raider
5 man warrior squad with blaster mounted in raider
3 man wrack squad mounted in venom with double cannons
10 man wych squad with hekatrix, blast pistol, PW, and 2 hydra gauntlets
10 man wych squad with hekatrix, blast pistol, PW, and 1 hydra gauntlet
9 man hellion squad with leader, PW
3 ravagers
6 man reaver squad with 2 heat lances
6 man reaver squad with 2 heat lances

Wow that was totally epic! Hardcore from the start to the end. I love both the armies. Looking forward to more batreps.

I'm assuming the Wyches had Haywires as well (otherwise killing that Storm Raven is assault would have been tricky)?

Any reasoning for leaving the Ravagers in reserve? He doesn't have that much anti tank firepower (at least until the Jump Packs arrive and the Dreads/Storm Ravens are ready to go) and Night Fight first turn should keep you safe most of the time anyway.

I thought Mahu was in serious trouble at the start of the second turn, two Storm Ravens driving up right next to the Portal should end badly 90% of the time except your reserve rolls and shooting failed pretty hard. Storm Ravens are a pain to take out for Dark Eldar as Heat Lances don't work against them, but even still I would expect to be able to drop them with that much Dark Lance fire then Heat Lance the Dread/s and multi assault everything with Wyches/Hellions.

Hellions in WWP based lists look pretty nasty and I'm surprised you didn't take a bigger unit of them. Taking the Baron is a must (I don't really see the point in Hellions if they aren't scoring no matter the list actually) but they have a massive threat range coming out of the Portal and do everything Wyches can do (just missing the Haywires, but they can still threaten vehicles).

I actually kind of second taking Hellions in a larger unit, especially if you're taking the Baron.

I was writing a huge paragraph explaining my reasoning, but CaptK, you've been playing long enough I don't have to. Try out a 15-20 size squad of Hellions with the Baron. They're annoyingly hard to kill, especially once they get a pain token, as long as you stick to cover and pick your fights. The larger unit size maximizes the benefits that the Baron provides.

To me, having the Baron and only including a small number of Hellions is like having the Duke while running all Wracks as troops with no Combat Drug units and few vehicles. The character is still good, but there is so much more opportunity for awesomeness

I loved this batrep - very exciting and the pictures were a great aid. I think Saldiven has a good point - a maxed out unit of Hellions starting out with a pain token would buff the dark eldar army. I think dropping one of the Reaver units would get you there too.

This is just the battle I wanted to read about - thanks for posting! Looking forward to more.

Powerguy wrote:I'm assuming the Wyches had Haywires as well (otherwise killing that Storm Raven is assault would have been tricky)?

All my wyches have haywire grenades. I always take them.

Any reasoning for leaving the Ravagers in reserve? He doesn't have that much anti tank firepower (at least until the Jump Packs arrive and the Dreads/Storm Ravens are ready to go) and Night Fight first turn should keep you safe most of the time anyway.

Well knowing that he has units in pods, I didn't want to risk losing them right away. I wanted to see where he was going to commit his forces so I could maneuver them accordingly when they became available. I left one on the table to draw his army towards in since Ravagers are bullet magnets.

I thought Mahu was in serious trouble at the start of the second turn, two Storm Ravens driving up right next to the Portal should end badly 90% of the time except your reserve rolls and shooting failed pretty hard.

Yup. We both agreed that had the dice been average, he would have had some serious trouble this game. This Batrep though proves that DE do in fact struggle vs. AV12+ units if the dice aren't kind.

Storm Ravens are a pain to take out for Dark Eldar as Heat Lances don't work against them, but even still I would expect to be able to drop them with that much Dark Lance fire then Heat Lance the Dread/s and multi assault everything with Wyches/Hellions.

Yup. That essentially was the plan, but it didn't pan out. Wiffing against the Rifleman dread with the heat lances was a big deal as well...and if I killed it would have swung the game in my favor since he was single handedly responsible for getting 3KPs from my army.

Hellions in WWP based lists look pretty nasty and I'm surprised you didn't take a bigger unit of them.

If I'm taking more of them, that means I'm sacrificing anti-tank somewhere. I don't know if that is a good idea. I may try running another squad in the future though. In the beginning I'd field a bigger unit of them, but it was too unwieldy at times. They still suffer from Leadership problems though and having a unit that big break in a combat is catastrophic.

Taking the Baron is a must (I don't really see the point in Hellions if they aren't scoring no matter the list actually) but they have a massive threat range coming out of the Portal and do everything Wyches can do (just missing the Haywires, but they can still threaten vehicles).

Yup. In a WWP list the nice thing is that I have complete and total flexibility on how these guys hit the table. I can nominate a Deep Strike, but use the portal instead if it suits me. That kind of deployment flexibility is awesome.

Mass AV 12 is the reason I have been considering the S9 lances. You game reaffirms some of the ideas and tests I had with DE.

thehod wrote:Mass AV 12 is the reason I have been considering the S9 lances. You game reaffirms some of the ideas and tests I had with DE.

Yeah, once the Void Bomber comes out, I want to try it in some games.

please don't reply to my braindead post and derail this thread. Thanks :-)

CaptKaruthors wrote:

thehod wrote:Mass AV 12 is the reason I have been considering the S9 lances. You game reaffirms some of the ideas and tests I had with DE.

Yeah, once the Void Bomber comes out, I want to try it in some games.

Want to Borrow my Void Dragon?

Are you sure about this? I thought that once a unit was declared to be in reserve you would have to say that it would be deepstriking or normal reserve and then you had to bring it in that way - like you couldn't walk it on from the table edge for instance.

The WWP rules trump that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Want to Borrow my Void Dragon?

Nah. I'm not in any hurry. Thanks though!

CaptKaruthors wrote:

Are you sure about this? I thought that once a unit was declared to be in reserve you would have to say that it would be deepstriking or normal reserve and then you had to bring it in that way - like you couldn't walk it on from the table edge for instance.

The WWP rules trump that.

Ah sweet, I just went back and reread it - for some reason it being in parentheses just made it invisible to me... d'oh!

Ah sweet, I just went back and reread it - for some reason it being in parentheses just made it invisible to me... d'oh!

Lolz. When you have those deployment options available to you, it's really interesting.

Mahu wrote:The army wasn't a competitive one by any stretch of the imagination.

Two SRs with 2 dreads and other assorted BA fun, *not* competitive?

A similiar list cleaned my clock at the RTT yesterday, and went 2-1-0 WLD at the RTT, so I disagree, it is a reasonably competitive list. (Yes, I misunderstood its Alpha Strike capability).

Nice battle report what do you think of the battle ravens?