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i am contemplating loading out all of my PCS's with GL's as they are st 6 and 24" range not to mention cheap. the reason for this is that i regularly play against mc heavy deamons and it seams like the easyest way to get more high st weapons on the table. plus i can shoot over my blobs because the mc's have a 4++ so i may as well have more shots as it doesnt matter about ap...

what is the general consensus regarding GL's? is there a better 24" weapon for the PCS in a blob heavy army vs deamons?

MC's have a 3+ armor save the GL is ap 4 yes target saturation works, but they can save against it like crazy. 3+ is a 2/3 success rate. The best weapon against MC's heavy weapon teams with missles or lascannons they are cheap with long range. My idea is try it though you get alot of blasts so it could be very usefull against hordes.

Gls are cheap but I don't seem to get much performance from them. Thy rarely achieve anything for me, except in my last game where I had a 50blob that landed 5 consecutive frag direct hits on a packed sternguard combat squad in one shooting phase, netting 25 hits total!

what about packing them in PCS's and in a SWS or 2. they are cheap, more scoring units in an otherwise smaller scoring army (2 big blobs in 1500 points) and lots of them.


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im going to post an army which im thinking about for a tournament. maybe that will give you a better idea of if Gl's will be suitable.

I used to think they were utter garbage, then I decided to look at them again and thought "hey, these might be pretty useful", then my metagame switched to vehicles everywhere and I just started use meltas. For 5 points more you lose half of your range, but get the ability to outright destroy almost anything.

Grenade launchers are ok. They're cheap, and they provide performance roughly what you'd expect for such a cheap upgrade.

The problem is the opportunity cost. I'd never take GLs on anything with BS4, for starters. PCS and PIS are better, as you're counting less on their damage output, but there are often better ways to use that slot. If you take a few PIS to camp on objectives, than GLs can allow them to plink for cheap, but that's a squad that's not built to do damage.

The PCS seems to be the most likely place to really use them. Four GLs and an officer provide some light, mobile fire support... but you lose the chance to rock 4x flamers.

Generallly speaking, there better ways to do what GLs do (AC HWS, sentinels, etc), and better choices for squads than the GL (meltas and flamers especially.

I put a GL in every IG- infantry squad I field. Together with ACs they put out quite a lot of high strength AP4 shots. Against monstreous creatures it's really up to target priority, GL+AC squads are not the prime candidate for targeting them but of course they can if the situation requires. With orders they still have a decent chance of doing some damage. The good thing is that AC+GL squads are quite flexible. They can go for anti-infantry but also target lighter vehicles and monstreous creatures if needed.

I found most of the time flamers to be a better choice, Everyone except tau usually assaults IG, you can usually get a shot out the flamer before they do so you usually get more hits than if you had a GL before they get in CC.

I also agree flamers are generally a better choice. One good flamer hit can kill more infantry than a grenade launcher all game, and I generally have enough anti armor already. I need short range power and the flamer is it for me.

Grenade Launchers are underrated IMO. They aren't world beaters, but they're certainly viable for platoon infantry or budget minded PCS. Frag rounds add more target saturation for infantry that rely on massed firepower to kill most enemies, FRFSRF + a frag round = more than likely dead infantry. This is where a melta or plasma drop the ball a bit, they only get one or two total kills, the odds are much greater to get those kills, but they're wasted when your infantry can't shoot at anything else. Maybe that's just me though since I use platoon infantry a lot (mainly as skirmishers).

I like all of the infantry special weapon choices except the sniper rifle (mainly because the changes to sniper rules).

I find that GLs are better in PCS squads. They are probably going to hide behind your normal infantry anyway, and the exta range means that they can still contribute to the fight.

I do like the power of a flamer pcs but I find that they are too easy to counter and do not participate in every game. I would rather take the slightly weaker loadout that is guaranteed to contribute.

I agree with the general feeling that GL's are usually best left on the sprue. Going against MC's isn't the worst idea at first glance, but when you combine the single, BS3 shot with a 3+ armor save for the opponent, and you're likely going to have to make 6 shots to put down a single wound, and that's if every shot that hits wounds, which it won't (anywhere from 2/3 on the lighter stuff to 1/6 against things like wraithlord. You didn't specify the MC type, so I can't say for sure).

Compare that to the meltagun, which costs twice as much, but ignores armor saves, making them three times better for only twice as much, or against the plasma gun which is six times better for only triple the price.

More importantly, things like plasma guns kill MCs dead. Having good points efficiency is little comfort if the MC makes it into close combat with stuff.

You mentioned the MC's getting a 4++. Are they primarily Tzeench demon princes? If that's the case, then the GL is probably going to do better for you than melta (depending on what else the chaos player likes to bring along), but plasma's still going to be the better buy (because it's definitely going to be more useful against other stuff in the list).

If by 4++ you're referring to cover saves, then you should go back and read the rules again for how MCs take cover saves, as it's actually extremely challenging for them to get them.

Amazing against Orks. Mortors and Granade Launchers brake up their close styled squads, maing it easy for MG nests to mow them down or snipers to pick them off. There attacks are delaid as a resault and will delay them in CC which you don't want as a Guardsman against an Ork.

Yes, but this requires your opponent to be foolish enough to bunch up against them.

the fact that small blast templates have a 1.5" radius, and that models can be 2" apart from each other and still be in coherency is the achilles heel of small blast weapons everywhere.

Not to say you'll never get a good hit with them, but you're riding on your opponent for them to do any more than 1 or 2 hits in any given shot.

They do have good range, and being assault 1 with the 24" made them attractive for me. Especially for the squads I use to march across the table.

I have had mixed results, sometimes they do great, adding loads if hits through bunched up enemies; other times they do nothing.

Still their good range is worth noting.

Grenade launchers are okay for their price, but you have to remember that you're not just paying points for the grenade launcher, you're paying a special weapon slot as well. If you don't have anything else that you want to take in that slot, grenade launchers can be fine, but on a unit that has a more specialized plan they are usually not a very efficient option to take.

Fetterkey wrote:Grenade launchers are okay for their price, but you have to remember that you're not just paying points for the grenade launcher, you're paying a special weapon slot as well. If you don't have anything else that you want to take in that slot, grenade launchers can be fine, but on a unit that has a more specialized plan they are usually not a very efficient option to take.

this is the best summation so far.

Grenade Launchers aren't really good, they're just cheap and flexible, neither of which is really critical to most IG decisions.

Important to note, GL are pretty good vs DE. S6 ignores their FNP, and threatens Raiders and Venoms, and AP4 works against most units. The small blast works as well, wounding on a 4+.

Still, my PCS run flamers. Much better to concentrate the flamers and dispers the GL.

I usually run one PCS with 4x GL's. In a chimera, that's 7 mobile S6 shots. I generally use it to finish off power-armoured stragglers.

I also have them in my line squads, as I like the range and the choice of shells to bolster the squad's firepower.

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I tend to like Gls for the same reasson I like MLs. They are cheap and versatile. They can threaten light armor and take care of hordes as well.

Warboss Niblet wrote:I tend to like Gls for the same reasson I like MLs. They are cheap and versatile. They can threaten light armor and take care of hordes as well.

But IG can afford to specialize. i prefer to spend points on better options, like the melta or plasma.

Warboss Niblet wrote:They are cheap and versatile.

But not effective.

I use GLs on my platoons. 4 S6 shots or 4 S3 blasts is pretty good on the PCS, and doesn't demand them driving upto spitting distance to do some damage. Likewise, in the GLAC PIS they can supplement the lasguns w/ the frag grenade, or help the autocannon hurt light/medium armour with a S6 shot.

At the end of the day it's a 5pt upgrade. They won't radically alter the game, but they're nice to have.

L. Wrex

I think the most important factor using grenade launchers are, that they are highly mobile ad you dont have to close in on your opponent.

So if you shoot 3 Plasmaguns at a MC at double tap you will most likely suffer from a deadly counter attack. Because 3 plasmaguns dont necessarily result in a dead MC.
So you either need immediate support or you will lose your squad.

If you have GL you wont do much damage, but you dont have to fear a direct counter as long as you stay out of 18".
nd throwing massive S6 onto enemy rhinos will result in some effect on their movement.

Yeah i'd have to side with plasma or missile launcher.

ok so the MC which i usually run up against are; wraith loards, Avatar, blood thirster and greater daemon of tzeench.

ok so plasma and melta is better against the WL but im not sure about the others. im beginning to think hoarding the GL's may work...

now that you guys know the MC's are your opinions still the same?


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there is also a lot to be said about FRFSRF with lasguns. i did 3 wound to an avatar with my blob of 30 the other day just through shooting. maybe massed crumby weapons are better/best

Melta kills tanks dead.
Plasma kills MC's and MEQ's dead.
Flamers kill hordes dead.
Sniper rifles and GL's are cheap, and largely ineffectual.

Broadly speaking, I concentrate melta and plasma in vet squads and company command squads, and everyone else gets a flamer. Platoon command squads are allways quad flamer, it's a brutally effective way of dealing with enemy assault troops. They run in, assault and murder one unit (Which is expendable, I'm Guard after all), then the PCS roll up in their Chimera and annihilate the assault troops.

Double-tapping an MC with triple/quad plasma squads is not as risky as you'd think. Even if you fail to kill the MC and it assaults you, it still has to get you out of your tin box. (You're meched up, right?). Then next turn, you finish it off. At the end of the day though, even if the enemy manages to break your tank and assault the juicy contents. So what? Guard are cheap.

GL cheap, flexible but not efficient?

I think everyone who's hating on the GL needs to take a step back and look at it. Like, really look at it. Take out the piece of sprue and check it out good. Or at least find an image somewhere, because you might be missing something here.

Are you looking?

It's the grenade launcher from Goldeneye n64. The one that bounces shots off walls and around corners? Best weapon ever. Also: It looks like a giant revolver loaded with tank shells.


No but seriously. I've tried these out for a few games where I knew I wouldn't need much melta or plasma and they work fine. They can force some saves on monsters and really rack up hits against tight formations. They're capable of taking out AV10 (mainly theoretically, though I've had it happen) if it strays within range, and their range is pretty comfortable for 5pts

And they're not awful assault weapons. I mean they beat pistols, usually.

-Nazdreg- wrote:I think the most important factor using grenade launchers are, that they are highly mobile ad you dont have to close in on your opponent.

Actually, they're equally mobile to all other special weapons (except sniper rifles, but...). The only advantage they have is range.

You could note that the other advantage they have is their cheap cost, but don't let that fool you, their cost TO EFFECTIVENESS ratio is pretty low. No point in spending few points if they rack up even fewer kills...