Stern's Zone of Banishment Against Vehicles?

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**Popsicle**

Hey, all,

Noticed something that doesn't seem to have come up yet. Does Brother-Captain Stern's "Zone of Banishment" affect vehicles? If so, are they automatically removed? It's worded that *any model* within D6" that doesn't roll under its strength is removed. So, does that mean that anything without a strength value is automatically removed? And what happens to anybody inside?

Martin

**Galador**

It would depend on if the vehicle is involved in the combat or not. As I read it, it is done instead of CC attacks, however, since it states a range and doesn't specify if it effects things outside the combat, you would have to discuss that one with your opponent. But as far as the autofail, I wouldn't be able to say yes or no definitively, but I would say it doesn't effect them, because its not a matter of them having a 0 lvl characteristic, its a matter of them not having the characteristic at all. I know that most things that require a toughness test or other tests don't effect vehicles normally, so off hand I would say that it doesn't effect any vehicles except walkers.

**Grey Templar**

a Walker might have to test it's Str.

a normal vehicle wouldn't be effected as they don't have a Str value. having Str- is alot different from having no Str stat at all.

**Popsicle**

Grey Templar wrote:Having Str- is alot different from having no Str stat at all.

I disagree. In both cases, here, the model is unable to roll under its strength. That puts them in the same boat, does it not?

**Galador**

Popsicle wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:Having Str- is alot different from having no Str stat at all.

I disagree. In both cases, here, the model is unable to roll under its strength. That puts them in the same boat, does it not?

Or if you wanna go along those lines, determine how far the vehicle moved, then test for what its ramming strength is... puts them in the same boat, right??

No it doesn't. The only way you fail automatically, according to the BRB, is if you have a 0 in that characteristic, unless specified in a special rule, of course. If you have nothing in that characteristic in the first palce, and don't even have that characteristic on your profile, how can it affect you??.

**Popsicle**

Galador wrote:
Popsicle wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:Having Str- is alot different from having no Str stat at all.

I disagree. In both cases, here, the model is unable to roll under its strength. That puts them in the same boat, does it not?

Or if you wanna go along those lines, determine how far the vehicle moved, then test for what its ramming strength is... puts them in the same boat, right??

No it doesn't. The only way you fail automatically, according to the BRB, is if you have a 0 in that characteristic, unless specified in a special rule, of course. If you have nothing in that characteristic in the first palce, and don't even have that characteristic on your profile, how can it affect you??.

Hmmm...

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it's a closed case. There's enough potential to debate it that it needs FAQ'd, at which point it'll no doubt be corrected to affect only Infantry, Walkers and Monsterous Creatures.

But, to rephrase what the book says, whilst not changing the meaning... the only way that any model within D6" doesn't get removed is if that model rolls under its strength. So, on you go; roll under your Chimera's strength, and I'll let you keep it on the table.

**Galador**

Ok, how far did it move?

Lets say 12".... so that +1 per 3", so 4, +1 for every point over armor 10, so +2 more, and +1 for being a tank, for a total of Str7. Ok, so now I need a 6 to fail it, right?

**calypso2ts**

"...*any model* within D6" that doesn't roll under its strength is removed..."

If I roll for a Chimera and get a 6, can you actually tell me that I did not roll under its strength? The burden of the power is on the negative that I did not roll under my strength.

Since I have no strength you can not prove I did not roll under my strength. Nor can you say I rolled over. This is like asking me how many apples I have and I reply with Banana.

**kryhavok**

Pg. 6 of the BRB says "The characteristics are: Weapon Skill (WS), Ballistic Skill (BS), Strength(S), Toughness (T), Wounds (W), Initiative (I), Attacks (A), Leadership (Ld) and Armour Save (Sv). For all models except vehicles these characteristics are given a value on a scale of 0-10[...]"

Pg 7 says under Vehicle Characteristics: "To reflect the many differences between creatures of flesh and blood and constructs of steel and iron, vehicles have many different rules and their own set of characteristics. Vehicle characteristics are described in the vehicles section (see pg 56)".

It goes on to say that some things have been given a '0' for certain characteristics, which occasionally represented by a '-'.

Pg 56 lists vehicle characteristics: Type, Armour Value, and Ballistic Skill. (walkers are later described to have additional characteristics).

Saying a vehicles doesn't have a characteristic is not the same as saying it has it but at a value of 0 or '-'. So a vehicle would not "auto fail" a characteristic test due to it not having the characteristic.

Stern says the models take a "Strength Test" not "roll under you strength".

So the question is, do vehicles still need to take a characteristic test for a characteristic not listed on their profile (remember this is different than it having it listed and that value is a 0 or '-').

If indeed you have to take the test, you would not auto-fail and thus get to roll. A 1 will always pass. So even though I feel you don't even have to take the test, if for some weird reason you do, you still get a chance to pass it as only characteristics specifically written to have 0 value auto fail.

**Galador**

calypso2ts wrote:"...*any model* within D6" that doesn't roll under its strength is removed..."

If I roll for a Chimera and get a 6, can you actually tell me that I did not roll under its strength? The burden of the power is on the negative that I did not roll under my strength.

Since I have no strength you can not prove I did not roll under my strength. Nor can you say I rolled over. This is like asking me how many apples I have and I reply with Banana.

The reason I said a six, is if you look under characteristic tests, it states that a 6 is always a failure.

**calypso2ts**

Gotcha, I was reading it straight from your rule rather than a codex. You cannot take a characteristic test on a characteristic you do not have unless it is otherwise specified.

**Popsicle**

Page reference?

**Grey Templar**

this might answer something

page 8 under Characteristic tests.

"During a battle, a model might have to take a test on one of it's own Characteristics, commonly Str, T, or I..."

the key here is One of it's own.

this implies that if a model doesn't have the Characteristic in question it isn't required to roll for any tests associated with that characteristic.

**Galador**

Unless, of course, the great and powerful GW FAQ says otherwise.....

**Grey Templar**

Do you think they will take the ruling that is unfavorable to GKs?

**Galador**

For their new uber shiny marines??? Of course not.....

**kirsanth**

Taking out Titans like Lucas since 2011.