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HQ
----
Haemunculous - Liquifier - 60
Haemunculous - Liquifier, Shattershard - 75
Haemunculous - Liquifier, Crucible of Malediction - 80

Elite
------
3x Trueborn - 3x Blaster - Venom w/ dual SC - 146
3x Trueborn - 3x Blaster - Venom w/ dual SC - 146

Troops
--------
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF, Torm Grenades - 201
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF, Torm Grenades - 201
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire gren - Raider w/ FF, Torm Grenades - 201
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF - 196
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF - 196

Heavy
-------
Ravager - FF - 115
Ravager - FF - 115
Ravager - FF - 115

Total: 1847

Thoughts: Added more wyches, Shattershard, some grenade launchers, and some grenades... thoughts?

Edit: Added more liquifiers and haywire grens

Why not drop the baron and give the trueborn another man, and bring the wych squads up to 9?

I'm starting to see this commonly, what is the point of using the Baron with no Hellions in a list? Seems like a waste of points to me.
Night Shields is definitely a good idea for the Ravagers.
Razorflails are apparently the most effective Wych weapon.
Beastmasters seem to have little synergy with what you're taking, the rest of your army is mounted in fast vehicles and they're limited to 6" movement as Beasts. Including a portal might help them go forward quicker.
Apart from that, looks pretty solid.

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:I'm starting to see this commonly, what is the point of using the Baron with no Hellions in a list? Seems like a waste of points to me.
Night Shields is definitely a good idea for the Ravagers.
Razorflails are apparently the most effective Wych weapon.
Beastmasters seem to have little synergy with what you're taking, the rest of your army is mounted in fast vehicles and they're limited to 6" movement as Beasts. Including a portal might help them go forward quicker.
Apart from that, looks pretty solid.

people take baron to get the stealth for their beast squads, but it seems like a real waste to spend 105 points for stealth...
Beast Masters aren't really efficient in lists other than WWP lists anyway

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:I'm starting to see this commonly, what is the point of using the Baron with no Hellions in a list? Seems like a waste of points to me.

The Baron has a place in any DE army as a fragile army like DE really benefit from going first. He is absolutely worth his points for that alone.

Night Shields is definitely a good idea for the Ravagers.

I don't really think night shields are ever a good idea. Flickerfields are the way to go.

Razorflails are apparently the most effective Wych weapon.

Depends on what you want the wyches to do. I've experimented with both razorflails and hydra gauntlets and like both. In some cases, like when the wyches are escorting an HQ, shardnets are the way to go.

Beastmasters seem to have little synergy with what you're taking, the rest of your army is mounted in fast vehicles and they're limited to 6" movement as Beasts. Including a portal might help them go forward quicker.
Apart from that, looks pretty solid.

Agreed, but then I'm not a real fan of beast packs anyway.

Well, gimme an idea of what to take then perhaps some hellions? Barons pretty beast for the reasons mentioned above

In place of the beasts you could take hellions to go with the Baron. Give them a stun claw and let them pick on some poor unsuspecting IC. They will count as scoring and have mobility. I also like minimum sized reaver squads with a blaster. They're cheap and can pop some armor. They'll also take some shooting heat off of your raiders/ravagers.

Beastmaster units hit like a truck and are a nightmare to kill (they just about ignore small arms and can deal with heavy weapon fire until they hit combat). With the Baron Hellions are solid scoring units, but they don't get close to the hitting power of Beasts. If you wanted to add Hellions I would be dropping like for like, 1 of the Wych units for a decent sized unit of Hellions. Having said that I'm not sure Beastmasters are a great choice for this list, imo they work best in Portal based lists (where they are hammer units which can't be shot before they hit something) or in shooty/firepower based lists as a counter assault unit (massed firepower means the Baron's +1 to go first is very helpful and Stealth means its hard to actually shoot you down). In a meched up assault force I think Incubi would be a better bet, if you do include Beastmasters in such a list I don't think the Baron is that helpful because he slows them down too much.

However since there is no way you can get Pain Tokens for all your Wyches to start with (and Hellions without a Portal need a Pain Token as well) and you are on the light side for scoring units consider swapping 1 of the Wych units of 2 small units of Wracks in Venoms.

As far as other things you can add go, another Blaster Trueborn in each squad would be good, those units are gold. You could also do with a few more bodies in the Wych units (imo take an extra body rather than a weapon upgrade, + 2/3 attacks all the time and added durability beats + D6 attacks), particularly if you aren't adding more scoring units. You definitely want at least 1-2 units with Haywires as well, as it is you are completely stuffed against Monoliths, Blessed Hull Land Raiders and any walkers you are silly enough to get stuck in combat with. They are also a good way to fill the role that most armies use massed S6/7 shooting for, suppression (shake/stun) of vehicles.

I would highly recommend taking a Shattershard on one of the Haemonculi (even if its instead of the Liquifier), its incredibly powerful for its cost and lets you bypass the survivability of units which can otherwise cause you problems like Seer Councils, Nobz and TH/SS Terminators.

If you want to take the Crucible you should maximise your chances of doing damage with it. A couple of Raiders with Torment Grenade Launchers means you should drop all HQ level psykers to a more fail-able Ld9 and lower level guys like Justicars will be Ld8. Eldar Warlocks are totally screwed over with Ld7 lol.

Powerguy wrote:Beastmaster units hit like a truck and are a nightmare to kill (they just about ignore small arms and can deal with heavy weapon fire until they hit combat). With the Baron Hellions are solid scoring units, but they don't get close to the hitting power of Beasts. If you wanted to add Hellions I would be dropping like for like, 1 of the Wych units for a decent sized unit of Hellions. Having said that I'm not sure Beastmasters are a great choice for this list, imo they work best in Portal based lists (where they are hammer units which can't be shot before they hit something) or in shooty/firepower based lists as a counter assault unit (massed firepower means the Baron's +1 to go first is very helpful and Stealth means its hard to actually shoot you down). In a meched up assault force I think Incubi would be a better bet, if you do include Beastmasters in such a list I don't think the Baron is that helpful because he slows them down too much.

However since there is no way you can get Pain Tokens for all your Wyches to start with (and Hellions without a Portal need a Pain Token as well) and you are on the light side for scoring units consider swapping 1 of the Wych units of 2 small units of Wracks in Venoms.

As far as other things you can add go, another Blaster Trueborn in each squad would be good, those units are gold. You could also do with a few more bodies in the Wych units (imo take an extra body rather than a weapon upgrade, + 2/3 attacks all the time and added durability beats + D6 attacks), particularly if you aren't adding more scoring units. You definitely want at least 1-2 units with Haywires as well, as it is you are completely stuffed against Monoliths, Blessed Hull Land Raiders and any walkers you are silly enough to get stuck in combat with. They are also a good way to fill the role that most armies use massed S6/7 shooting for, suppression (shake/stun) of vehicles.

I would highly recommend taking a Shattershard on one of the Haemonculi (even if its instead of the Liquifier), its incredibly powerful for its cost and lets you bypass the survivability of units which can otherwise cause you problems like Seer Councils, Nobz and TH/SS Terminators.

If you want to take the Crucible you should maximise your chances of doing damage with it. A couple of Raiders with Torment Grenade Launchers means you should drop all HQ level psykers to a more fail-able Ld9 and lower level guys like Justicars will be Ld8. Eldar Warlocks are totally screwed over with Ld7 lol.

Some awesome ideas here! I'll mull it over and post a reworked list in a while.

Edit: list reworked, need input!

Anymore suggestions?

1850 Dark Eldar
Total: 1809

Oooh! Oooh! I spotted one of your problems!

Zid wrote:HQ
----
Haemunculous - Liquifier - 60
Haemunculous - Shattershard - 65
Haemunculous - Crucible of Malediction - 70

You're paying a lot for some units that will have limited functionality after they trigger their one shot effects. I'd probably still toss Liquifiers on them.

Elite
------
3x Trueborn - 3x Blaster - Venom w/ dual SC - 146
3x Trueborn - 3x Blaster - Venom w/ dual SC - 146

I like these.

Troops
--------
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Flails - Raider w/ FF, Torm Grenades - 185
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Flails - Raider w/ FF, Torm Grenades - 185
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Flails - Raider w/ FF, Torm Grenades - 185

Comboing the Torment grenades with the Crucible? Nice. That said, it is 15 points for a weapon that is conditional use. I'm not sure it's the best use for those points, and that they could be better spent on Liquifiers (well, one and a half Liquifiers, but you get the point) or maybe grenades for Wyches, ect. ect.

8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF - 196
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF - 196

I like how Wych heavy the list is, I somewhat look askance at mixing and matching like you are. Especially with your extra points is there a reason all your Wyches don't have grenades? My second thought is - if you check the math I'm pretty sure 2 Wyches inflicts more damage than a single Wych with Razorflails - and they cost the same. The purpose of Flails and Gauntlets is to boost the squad once you've already hit your maximum total Wyches. Not before.

Heavy
-------
Ravager - FF - 115
Ravager - FF - 115
Ravager - FF - 115

I need to come up with something cleverer to say about these since they're in basically every build. Maybe...ravishing! Does the pun work?

Thor665 wrote:

1850 Dark Eldar
Total: 1809

Oooh! Oooh! I spotted one of your problems!

Zid wrote:HQ
----
Haemunculous - Liquifier - 60
Haemunculous - Shattershard - 65
Haemunculous - Crucible of Malediction - 70

You're paying a lot for some units that will have limited functionality after they trigger their one shot effects. I'd probably still toss Liquifiers on them.

Elite
------
3x Trueborn - 3x Blaster - Venom w/ dual SC - 146
3x Trueborn - 3x Blaster - Venom w/ dual SC - 146

I like these.

Troops
--------
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Flails - Raider w/ FF, Torm Grenades - 185
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Flails - Raider w/ FF, Torm Grenades - 185
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Flails - Raider w/ FF, Torm Grenades - 185

Comboing the Torment grenades with the Crucible? Nice. That said, it is 15 points for a weapon that is conditional use. I'm not sure it's the best use for those points, and that they could be better spent on Liquifiers (well, one and a half Liquifiers, but you get the point) or maybe grenades for Wyches, ect. ect.

8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF - 196
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF - 196

I like how Wych heavy the list is, I somewhat look askance at mixing and matching like you are. Especially with your extra points is there a reason all your Wyches don't have grenades? My second thought is - if you check the math I'm pretty sure 2 Wyches inflicts more damage than a single Wych with Razorflails - and they cost the same. The purpose of Flails and Gauntlets is to boost the squad once you've already hit your maximum total Wyches. Not before.

Heavy
-------
Ravager - FF - 115
Ravager - FF - 115
Ravager - FF - 115

I need to come up with something cleverer to say about these since they're in basically every build. Maybe...ravishing! Does the pun work?

Truth about the flails; I'll toss em for summore liquifiers and grenades! Also, the tormenter/crucible combo is more for facing GK (which is going to be VERY common around here soon...) and BA players (mephiston/libby dreads are popular here).

What are your thoughts on trophies for 1 or 2 raiders?

Well, I need 2 more raiders, 3 boxes of wyches, and 1 ravager and this list will be ready to play; stay tuned for battlereps!

Awesome!

Thor665 wrote:Awesome!

/highfive

So, in order to save a bit of cash, I've decided to do 4 wych units in raiders. This saves me buying a box of wyches and a raider. I already have everything else but 2 wych boxes and 1 ravager. So, to save cash (and get the Baron into it) I'm thinking of doing the following:

HQ
----
Baron - 105 pts
Haemunculous - Liquifier - 60
Haemunculous - Liquifier, Shattershard - 75
Haemunculous - Liquifier, Crucible of Malediction - 80

Elite
------
3x Trueborn - 3x Blaster - Venom w/ dual SC - 146
3x Trueborn - 3x Blaster - Venom w/ dual SC - 146

Troops
--------
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF, Torm Grenades - 201
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF, Torm Grenades - 201
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF - 196
8x Wyches - Hekatrix w/ agonizer, Haywire Gren - Raider w/ FF - 196
Warriors x 10 - 90 pts

Heavy
-------
Ravager - FF - 115
Ravager - FF - 115
Ravager - FF - 115

Total: 1841 pts

Baron will sit with the warriors in cover. They'll shoot up anything that gets too close, and if need be, the baron can split off and run interferance to buy my warriors some time. It doesn't "fit" completely with the wych theme, but knowing many opponents will try and blast the warriors early. Which will be nice because a 2+ cover save going to ground will be tough to crack lol! Thoughts?

So...200 points to get +1 to opening rolls? Pretty unimpressed by that. I'd at least go with a cheap unit of beasts or something - it'd be sorta Wych themed as well.

Thor665 wrote:So...200 points to get +1 to opening rolls? Pretty unimpressed by that. I'd at least go with a cheap unit of beasts or something - it'd be sorta Wych themed as well.

Which is what I was going to do originally... BUT, yet again, I'd have to buy some more stuff, in which case I'd rather just go all wyches :( Kinda trying not to spend a lot more, finances are tight these days!