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I was looking into warmachine/hordes and everyone tells me how awesome its pricing is compared to GW

but it seems like model for model its about the same, is there something im missing?

Model for model it is the same or more. Check out the pricing for yourself.

$35 or more for one metal model is not my style. Warmachine has a less developed storyline, less support/players, less outreach (video games, movies, etc), and less high quality models (in my opinion), as well as more flexible/pose-able/customizable models in my opinion.

It's "cheaper" in that you need less models to play. The models themselves, more expensive and worse imo.

Yes.

Most of the time, anymore, people are discussing PP based on old information of how they used to be priced, and how they marketed themselves in thir beginnings.

They cost about as much, if not more then GW unit per unit, with difference being, you are paying for metal.

I don't think I could start a 15 point game equivalent in GW with less than hundred 100 dollar

But Yeah, if you measure unit per unit it is more, but you need less unit anyway. I don't think the model is worse , it's about the same.

Warmachine has a less developed storyline, less support/players, less outreach (video games, movies, etc), and less high quality models (in my opinion), as well as more flexible/pose-able/customizable models in my opinion.

You need fewer models, models have more of an impact on the
game overall, and you need fewer repeat models. Customizability
isn't really a problem as each model entry has its own set of
rules.

Same pricing.

Having fewer players shouldn't matter if you can find people to play
games with.

It's a different game and has a very different feel to it from 40k. So
if you're in love with the 40k atmosphere or the scale of the battles,
Warmachine will feel different to you.

Grot 6 wrote: Most of the time, anymore, people are discussing PP based on old information of how they used to be priced, and how they marketed themselves in thir beginnings.

Privateer were never significantly cheaper than GW. The difference has always just been down to the number of models needed to play the game.

Which, to me, doesn't really make it an 'alternative'... it's a completely different scale of game. It's like saying that if you like Monopoly but don't want to pay that much for a game, then you should try UNO.

What are you talking about....alternative.

There is only GamesWorkshop.

He is our dealer and exploitor.

Right, the game isn't any cheaper than GW's games.

Where it does differ, in my opinion, is what you'll need. Sure, a single box of troops may cost $50-$60 dollars. But, really, you'll only need that 1 unit.

But comparing Warmachine/Hordes to 40k/WHFB is comparing apples to onions (both of which I love). Both games operate on different scales. Both games have completely different mechanics. Both games have completely different stories and background (but to be fair, GW does have a 30+ year lead on PP so the 'PP's fluff isn't as detailed as GW's, so I'm not a fan' arguement doesn't hold water to me).

Do you like Grimdark, scifi epics with daemons, monsters, aliens, and supersoldiers, on a sizeable scale? Play 40k (or Epic, which is what I'm currently converting to).

Do you want to see armies clash, spells of titanic proportions cast as heroes, both good and evil, duel to the death on battletorn plains? Play WHFB.

Do you want to see giant, steam-and-magic powered robots crash into one another, while Lightning knights do battle with undead pirates, with a more skirmish-y feel? Play Warmachine.

In the end, you'll most likely spend the same amount of money. The only way to win, really, is to not play the game.

But that's no fun at all.

The only difference in unit to unit comparison for prizes I found was that GW sometimes seems to charge for effectiveness (i.e. more popular or stronger units cost more than other models with a comparable material quantities) while PP seems to have avoided this so far.

That beings said, yes Warmachine is a nice alternative (or addition) to Warhammer Fantasy/40k. It´s a completely different game, so it won´t replace any of GW´s games for you if you like their gameplay. If you´re looking for a game that has a nice but different gameplay you can go for it.

While the PP community is not as big as the GW one you should find a few players in your FLGS (maybe not so much if it´s a GW, but most multi-purpose FLGS should have a few players) or online.

IME you can have more fun and get more strategic depth at the "starter box" level with WM/Hordes than you can with WH or 40k. The complexity of the rules and unit options makes a game with just a starter box, or a starter box plus a squad or two, actually enjoyable and tactical.

That said, it's a totally different "feel". Some folks compare it to a cross between WH & Magic: The Gathering, as gameplay does involve combinations of spells and unit special rules to make deadly maneuvers and killer plays happen.

I still haven't tried Mk2, but really enjoyed WM for a couple of years when my primary group moved over to it from 40k. I still consider it my third favorite minis game, after 40k and Warhammer.

I eventually stopped playing mostly because I didn't have the time and energy to invest in mastering it to the level I wanted, AS WELL AS playing 40k and Warhammer competitively, as I've been doing for over a decade. I prefer the scale and feel of 40k/WH, and the speed of play using what feels more like an army than a skirmish warband. It's a great game. I just didn't like it as much.

Vimes wrote:The only difference in unit to unit comparison for prizes I found was that GW sometimes seems to charge for effectiveness (i.e. more popular or stronger units cost more than other models with a comparable material quantities) while PP seems to have avoided this so far.

Characters cost more as well.

The problem with pricing by metals? Medium based armies...ouch...

The Battle Engines are mostly resin, maybe PP will move over to
that line as well.

One thing I like about pricing is that it doesn't often change. I think this
is why they sometimes seem like they're pricing things higher. The prices
don't tend to change, so they're initially set as high as they think they
can get them.

i like the steampunk look but... id rather have grimdark steampunk!

and I quite like the fielding of massive armies that is Games workshop so I guess ill stick with the evil corporation from britain

Hmmm I would suggest that Infinity would be a better comparison to WH in terms of the size of the battles portrayed.

Of course I have not played either so does anyone know how the buy-in of these similarly scales games compares?

Personally I like the look of Infinity allot, but have barely enough time to bet getting on with what I have for 40k and FoW.

Infinity is a skirmish game. Maybe ten models per side.

Beautiful figs and you need lots of terrain.

Not dissimilar to Wh then?

notprop...the double negative is throwing me off. How do you mean?

Vimes wrote:The only difference in unit to unit comparison for prizes I found was that GW sometimes seems to charge for effectiveness (i.e. more popular or stronger units cost more than other models with a comparable material quantities) while PP seems to have avoided this so far.

This.

Also, someone mentioned the 'starter box' vs GW battalions.

Most PP starter boxes are good to go straight from the box, while GW's tend to be imbalanced or plain illegal in terms of rules.

For example, the Island of Blood High Elves are illegal in any games but IoB.

valiantjared wrote:I was looking into warmachine/hordes and everyone tells me how awesome its pricing is compared to GW

but it seems like model for model its about the same, is there something im missing?

The game is balanced for smaller forces, as I understand. My pet game is much the same: Sure, the models are expensive, but the game relies in different mechanicals to give it tactical depth than large blocks of troops.

malfred wrote:notprop...the double negative is throwing me off. How do you mean?

Sorry Malfred, I mean't in terms of starting outlay and scope of the game i.e. skirmish/squad level battles.

As I say i'm not too au fais with either game.

AvatarForm wrote:

Vimes wrote:The only difference in unit to unit comparison for prizes I found was that GW sometimes seems to charge for effectiveness (i.e. more popular or stronger units cost more than other models with a comparable material quantities) while PP seems to have avoided this so far.

This.

Also, someone mentioned the 'starter box' vs GW battalions.

Most PP starter boxes are good to go straight from the box, while GW's tend to be imbalanced or plain illegal in terms of rules.

For example, the Island of Blood High Elves are illegal in any games but IoB.

A GW battleforce is also approximately twice the cost of a PP starter box, yet both allow you to play basically the minimum game size (15/500 points). To upgrade your Privateer Press box to a tournament-capable force, you would only have to shell out money for a couple of infantry units.

For GW...it's usually better to buy the elements themselves rather than buy a battleforce.

Disclaimer, I haven't played Warmachine in a few years, and I recently started a WHFB army. I've been enjoying painting more recently, and PP just doesn't give the same bang for the buck. Plus, I have a huge warmachine force sitting in the basement.

I find WM/H to be much cheaper than 40k.

Model:model price comparisons are about the same, but new 40k plastics are simply gorgeous and of a higher quality. PP seems much better at releasing and updating their models, however. I only had to wait a couple months for Hakkar the Destroyer from PP, but I've played two armies since the SW codex was released and it's still "THUNDERCAV WHUT??"

Competitive 40k is going to cost far more than competitive WM/H simply because of the reliance on transports. I can get into most 50 pt (a large game) WM/H armies, competitively, for around $300. $300 is probably the absolute low end for 2,000 pt 40k cost of entry (pure Deathwing, for example) with certain mech lists tipping towards $1,000+.

PP also has the advantage of army customizability with different warcasters changing the playstyle significantly. Swapping warcasters, even with many of the same units, can effectively give you 75% of a 'new' army. With 40k, the only way to get 75% of a new army is to... buy about 75% of a new army. In my personal experience this has given my roughly $500 collection of PP models a lot more longevity and has limited my 'gaming/army burnout' to a much greater extent than what I've typically had in 40k.

So model:model pricing is pretty similar, but new GW plastics blow away PP stuff in quality.

PP armies are generally cheaper than 40k armies due to model count, and PP factions are much cheaper than 40k factions because the Warcaster/Warlock so heavily influences how the same models will play.

I know most of you have experience with both games, so I'm not trying to change any minds here...just making an observation.

Back around the holidays, I bought into a Hordes army that I wanted to try (Legion of Everblight). Did some research, found a good 35 point jump-off point, and ended up paying $185 for all the models.

Recently I've felt the bug to get back into WFB, again did some research, and found a 2500 point list I'd like to shoot for. Unfortunately, the price tag is up around $500. No matter how you slice it, that entry cost is a very real deterrent.

In my store WM/H is becoming pretty attractive for people wishing to either play more than one army list or looking to enter into wargaming. The cost of entry is definitely lower, and when you're starting out I don't think the playstyle is different "enough" between low-points-level 40k and WM/H to be a real distinguishing factor.

The exception is probably 1500 pts of Draigo and 15 Super Paladins (<$200 retail), but as generally nobody thinks that's actually a good army or fun to play/play against no one has considered picking it up.

It's expensive... I jumped into PP the same way I tend to jump into a GW army- that is, get everything I want for it . It cost just as much as my GW fantasy army.

That said, you can get started playing for much cheaper than you can for a GW army.

Yeah, but in terms of scale, you've got the 40k equivalent of 4,000 pts of PP models; i.e. more than you'd ever need in one game. You can probably build 4-5 distinctly different army lists with those models.

geoff wrote:I know most of you have experience with both games, so I'm not trying to change any minds here...just making an observation.

Back around the holidays, I bought into a Hordes army that I wanted to try (Legion of Everblight). Did some research, found a good 35 point jump-off point, and ended up paying $185 for all the models.

Recently I've felt the bug to get back into WFB, again did some research, and found a 2500 point list I'd like to shoot for. Unfortunately, the price tag is up around $500. No matter how you slice it, that entry cost is a very real deterrent.

While I agree that it can be slightly cheaper (my 35 point Stryker list was about 200 retail), I think that 35 points in warmachine isn't equal to 2500 at all. 35 Points to me feels like 1250-1500 points of Warhammer or 40k.

As a recent convert from 40k to PP, I've got to say that I enjoy the PP system, but I also enjoy it for different reasons than 40k. While I love the scale of 40k and have plenty of money invested into it and have a few large armies (see my sig ) I find that I get burned out and displeased with 40k after a long day of gaming or after a tournament. I think what gets me is the time it takes to set up the game, play the game, then break down the game. Granted, I know that that is how wargaming goes, but it's a bit discouraging when you have to do all of that in between getting your face stomped (I tired to play competitive 40k, it didn't pan out well )

In the time it takes to play a 1750 40k game in my group, we can get 3 to 4 35 point WM/H games in. And have our tables/armies broken down/put away. But that's more a sign of the size of the scales of the games.

Let's see if I can tie all of this together now. I still love 40k. I think it's a great system and I have a lot of fun with it. That said, WM/H is a very refreshing system as it mixes things up from GW centric wargaming community (at least in my area). They're a very good counterpart to each other. A sort of surf and turf deal if you want to relate it to food.

tl;dr, Both games are fun and they compliment each other well, 40k for large scale, all day events, WM/H for smaller scale skirmishes.

Also, headbutting. Whoever decided headbutting was a good idea is a king among men. Awesome game mechanic

RiTides wrote:It's expensive... I jumped into PP the same way I tend to jump into a GW army- that is, get everything I want for it . It cost just as much as my GW fantasy army.

That said, you can get started playing for much cheaper than you can for a GW army.

Right, and this is my point, really. If you're the type who picks a faction and needs every model in that army, or the sort of person that likes to hop from army to army, it's very likely that one is not cheaper than the other. The real issue is just getting started, and whether on purpose or completely by accident, PP seems to be an easier wargame to buy into.

Could I find a cheaper alternative than the $500 point start-up list I mentioned earlier? Probably, but I'd likely have to look at an alternative army (like go HE or Skaven and build off IoB) instead of the one I'd like to play/try. Again, PP seems to come out ahead because you're generally able to start any army in their line for more or less the same fee.

It's unfortunate, because GW has such a broad fanbase to go with rich and immersive fluff, much moreso than PP. I do think they cut a sizeable chunk of customers out of their game with their price points, however, and consider myself one of them.

geoff wrote:Right, and this is my point, really. If you're the type who picks a faction and needs every model in that army, or the sort of person that likes to hop from army to army, it's very likely that one is not cheaper than the other. The real issue is just getting started, and whether on purpose or completely by accident, PP seems to be an easier wargame to buy into.

I've already stated my opinion on this but I think you're wrong in most cases.

Owning 'every model in the book' is akin to owning four or five distinct armies because unit spam and multiplication isn't really rewarded in the PP gamesets. Owning every unit in a 40k codex generally just gives you one really crappy army.

"No matter what", an equivalent expenditure to 40k in PP models is going to give you more mileage with either army list size or diversity.

Yes, you can spend $1,000 on a single WM/H faction. That's like buying an entire SM Chapter with 100 scouts, 100 Terminators, etc.

sourclams wrote:Owning 'every model in the book' is akin to owning four or five distinct armies because unit spam and multiplication isn't really rewarded in the PP gamesets. Owning every unit in a 40k codex generally just gives you one really crappy army.

That's the other nice thing about PP. There really aren't any units that are complete crap. Everything is useful in an army. Because of the small scale and number of special rules, there's very little duplication of units (the difference between, for example, Devastators and Tactical Marines is quite small).