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After selling my Ogres, I was able to gather more Bretonnia models since many players at my store have them but are either jumping on the Tom King bandwagon or they just don't want to field them anymore since they feel that the Bretonnians are no longer an effective army, however, I used to play Bretonnia all the way back in 6th edition, and I am looking forward for the chance to try them out again. So after going through the army book, I manged to come up with a 3000 point list that I feel will be effective against all-comers, and note that this is my first attempt so tell me what you think.

Lords & Hero's:

*Lord:
-w/Lance, Birth-Sword of Carcasson, Armor of Agilulf, Virtue of Heroism, Barded Warhorse

*Prophetess: (Lore of Life)
-w/lvl. 4, Warhorse

*Paladin BSB:
-w/HW, Virtue of Duty, Dragonhelm, Barded Warhorse

*Damsel: (Lore of Beasts)
-w/lvl. 2, Chalice of Malfluer

Core Units:

*(12x)Knights Errant:
-w/Full Command, Errantry Banner

*(11x)KOTR: ( w/BSB )
-w/Full Command

*(11x)KOTR: (w/Lord)
-w/Full Command, War Banner

*(14x) Peasent Bowmen:
-w/Braziers, Defensive-Stakes

*(14x) Peasent Bowmen:
-w/Braziers, Defensive-Stakes

*(39x) Men-@-Arms: (w/Damsel)
-w/Standard, Musician, Polearms

Special Units:

*(3x)Pegasus Knights:
-w/Gallant, Musician

*(9x) Questing Knights:
-w/Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame

Rare Units:

*Trebuchet #1:

*Trebuchet #2:

(8x)Grail Knights: (w/Prophetess)
-w/Full Command

Total: 2,997 points

Now, the only unit I'm still not 100% about fielding is the unit of 9x Questing Knights. Though they are back to +2 strength when mounted, they seem a bit expensive for what they can do so I'm just asking if anyone has had any experience with or against these guys and some reasons why are they are worth taking?

First off I despise virtue of heroism (mainly because its so unreliable), so comments might reflect that. However if your going to try for the HKB hammer I feel there is only one or two ways you want to build him, to maximize his chances of HKB'ing a target

Lord
Virtue of heroism
Tress of Isoulde
Sword of strife

6 attacks needing two's to hit... Statistically, this build has your best odds of popping big nasties.

OR

Berserker Sword
Tress of Isoulde
Cuirass of fortune

This build you only get 5 attacks, but can re-roll any 1's to wound.

As for the rest of the list...

I would drop the archers down to 10 and see if you cant get that men at arms unit to 50 strong. Then I would drop the chalice on the Damsel and give her the prayer Icon so your peasants can have the blessing of the lady.

Again this is personal preference, but I prefer my bsb to be as tanky as possible, I like the Gromril great helm, virtue of purity. This gives him a 3+ rerollable with a 5++

I would also drop the channeling staff, on channel on a 5+ instead of a 6+ just isnt worth it. Plus you need a dispel scroll somewhere, so I would put it on her.

Prohpetess only gets +4 when casting, the Fay Enchantress is the one who get +6 to cast with the Lore of Life mate, and In my experience, the +1 to my casting roll has come in handy in the past, but I'll probably move some points around to switch out the chalice for a dispel scroll for the damsel.

Channeling staff only adds +1 to your channels, meaning you get an extra dice on a 5+ not a 6+..

Brettonia dont get an item that gives them +1 to cast, unless you take the +1 to cast and dispell book of ashur for 70 points.

Ah, completely read that item wrong. My bad . Well, I quickly went back and redited some stuff and moved some points around so tell me if this is any better, and also I'm still waiting for some feedback on the Questing Knights and if they are worth taking in this edition.

Lords & Hero's:

*Lord:
-w/Lance, Sword of Might, Armor of Agilulf, Virtue of Heroism, Barded Warhorse

*Prophetess: (Lore of Life)
-w/lvl. 4, Dispell Scroll, Warhorse

*Paladin BSB:
-w/HW, Virtue of Duty, Dragonhelm, Barded Warhorse

*Damsel: (Lore of Beasts)
-w/lvl. 2, Chalice of Malfleur, Iron Curse Icon

Core Units:

*(12x)Knights Errant:
-w/Full Command, Errantry Banner

*(11x)KOTR: ( w/BSB )
-w/Full Command

*(11x)KOTR: (w/Lord)
-w/Full Command, War Banner

*(12x) Peasent Bowmen:
-w/Braziers, Defensive-Stakes

*(12x) Peasent Bowmen:
-w/Braziers, Defensive-Stakes

*(39x) Men-@-Arms: (w/Damsel)
-w/Full Command, Polearms

Special Units:

*(3x)Pegasus Knights:
-w/Gallant, Musician

*(9x) Questing Knights:
-w/Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame

Rare Units:

*Trebuchet #1:

*Trebuchet #2:

(8x)Grail Knights: (w/Prophetess)
-w/Full Command, Banner of Defense

Total: 2,997 points

Being that Warseer's down, I now have came here to get my fix -my as well have an account as well.

As for your Bretonnian bulid, it is not bad by any means, its actually quite the 'standard' list for Brets of recent. However, your HKB Lord needs his setup drastically changed.

The guy below you that said its 'unrelible' is just delusional especially since he provides a setup that isn't statistcally that much better.

No the best setup for a HKB Lord is:

Heartwood Lance

Tress of Isolaude

Virtue of Heroism

and 5 points left over that can be used for either the Charmed Shield etc. . .

OR

instead of the Tress of Isolaude, you can take the Armor of Aguilf as you have stated in your list.

I normally run with the prior, however I have on occasion used the secondary one, the secondary bulid gives you the best statistcal chance in any phase to HKB something, but the Tress gives you almost a 70-90 percent chance I believe.

The whoe tactic with the HKB lord though is, your not going to HKB much on the charge with S6, however, you should be able to HKB anyhting turn two.

For example, you charge a Hydra with a bus of knights (I normally run a small bus of 8 just for this lord) do some wounds, take some wounds, you lose combat by 1. You stay, next turn however, you activate the Tress of Isolaude, now you hit with 3 attacks (I'm being pessimctic here and now you are wounding on 5's with rerolls to wound.

The trick revolves around having the Bret special rule that you keep your magical lance even in rounds after the first and using a chessy combination of the Heartwood Lance's rerolling to wound when your a lower strength agaisnt a higher toughness, in later rounds after the intial charge and getting most of the Tress in that second round in which you need a 5 and or 6 to wound -obviously we're looking for 6.

Other suggestions to your list:

I have had a rough time with my Peasant M@A (I play H.E as my other army and my ultra-aggresive playstyle usually carries over with Brets unfortunatley) they are slow moving, and tend to die to anything, that combination usually sees that they don't make it to combat. However if you are going to keep them, I agree with the poster above take 40 or in this case bump them up to 50. I would also try to make the Archers larger bumping them up to 20 a piece or 24 and even give them F.C if you haven't yet.

Lastly, to get those extra 100 or so points, I would cut out the Questing Knights. In my experiences, and in theory, they just don't peform. They ASL, and have a +3 A.S, they won't get to acheive their purpose of killing monsters and hard units with Regen because: A. your Lord will kill all the monsters on the field (thats his job, he's like a cannon on a Horse) and B. any elite unit worth fighting will have Ws5 so your hitting on 4's, but more importantly, you won't be alive long enough to stand up to C.W with Halbreds, H.E elites, Storm Vermin, hell even Great Swords they are almost 1/3 the cost. Lastly, even if they do lend a helping hand in combat in a flank of something where they take few casualties, you won't get to make use of your flamming banner as they are the last to stirke with G.W. Questing knights just haven't been worth it to me.

So what to do with the extra points?

Heavliy consider the Crown of Command on your Prophetess or Damsel (which ever is mounted). I put mine in the largest unit my KOTE as they tend to be the max 15 knights. It makes your unit stubborn for almost ever as your Prophetess can't be attacked in the second rank.

I have also ran before Chalice of Malefuler, Ruby Goblet, Crown of Command, so that even when she fails her Chalice, she makes the unit she is in now being wouded on 3's (a huge help when not buffed -though it can be situational). This kitted out build though dosen't allow for a second Lord, so for my most recent lists, I have just not ran the above bulid as I have found having 2 Lords at LD9/10 all the more helpful. If your not going to run a second Lord, and you don't like that kit out above, you can still go cheap with the Mane of the Pure Breed -a really useful items for large formations aka 15 horses and up *don't know if you have read the Faq for them yet, but you get every horse's attack while in lance formation on the charge, in addtion to knights themselves- can also make Grail Knights become disgusting.

The Prayer Icon can be very useful in a unit of Peasants, just remember that Peasants are Peasants, even if we have shoes and the Empire dosen't we still have WS2

Switch the BoEF on to another unit if you dump the Questing Knights. I also agree with the guy above, I tend to try to make my BsB tanky Gromil Great Helm. Banner of Discpline in whatever unit the Lord is going in (not the Errantry unit with the Errantry Banner obviously). If you still have points left over, make sure to increase the Grail Knight unit, they can tend to be your unit is an actual train hitting something and they care nought for Steadfast -I hav given them the Cold Blooded Banner before, also have before stuck them with te Crown of Command Damsel. So if they lose by a little or alot it dosen't matter -take that SLAANNNNNNN!

Double check your Brett Army book. Not a one of the magic 'lances' actually count as lances by the rules. They are all magic weapons that give +2 S on the charge.

. . . ? Yes they do.

lol They a in the magic item section, thats like saying the Star Lance dosen't count as a magical lance because it gives you S7 on the charge and allows no armor saves.

The reason they put the +2 S when they charge, becaue back in 6th ed. from what I understand, Lances gave varying S bonuses to different armies.

And even if that interpertation was right, how does that detract from the strategy behindhe Heartwood Lance (it had Lance in its name) and Tress of Isolaude?

Thanks for the replies so far mates, so after going through the book again, I decided to mix things up a bit and came up with this list, which is my 3rd attempt so tell me what you guys think.

Lords & Hero's:

*Lord:
-w/Heartwood Lance, Armor of Agilulf, Virtue of Heroism, Barded Warhorse

*The Fay Enchantress

*Paladin BSB:
-w/HW, Virtue of Duty, Dragonhelm, Barded Warhorse

*Paladin:
-w/Morning Star of Fracasse, Hvy. Armor, Enchanted Shield, Iron Curse Icon, Virtue of Empathy.

Core Units:

*(12x)Knights Errant:
-w/Full Command, Errantry Banner

*(11x)KOTR: ( w/BSB )
-w/Full Command

*(11x)KOTR: (w/Lord)
-w/Full Command, War Banner

*(12x) Peasent Bowmen:
-w/Braziers, Defensive-Stakes

*(12x) Peasent Bowmen:
-w/Braziers, Defensive-Stakes

*(49x) Men-@-Arms: (w/Paladin)
-w/Full Command, Polearms

Special Units:

*(3x)Pegasus Knights:
-w/Gallant, Musician

Rare Units:

*Trebuchet #1:

*Trebuchet #2:

(8x)Grail Knights: (w/Fay Enchantress)
-w/Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame

Total: 2,997 points

As you can see the most noticable change is the Fay Enchantress, because in my opinion the ability to have +6 when casting the Lore of Life is just awesome , not to mention every knight in the army having a 5+ ward save against all attacks and starts w/the blessing before the game. Besides her, I beffed up the Men-@-Arms unit to 50x guys, and switched out the Damsel for a Paladin who can surprise people since he can destroy magic weapons and has a 2+ armor save.

I love it when people dump their old armies in favor of the FotM. I can't even guess how many points worth of O&G I have... Well over 10k points without characters or sleazing them all as Big'uns with Gorbad. Each time they fall out of favor I troll eBay and Bizzare Bazzars for people willing to make that "All my O&G for two new regiment boxes of Chaos Warriors" type deal. I once won an Army Box at an RTT, broke it up into 3 segments, and traded it for almost $7k worth of "old crap" from three different people. That included most of my 200 strong NIght Gobbo with spears horde which has never broken so far. My king sized bed has a "toy chest" underneath on casters full of stuff, I'm just about even money on models (not paint, brushes, bases, glue, ect though!) by selling stuff on eBay when the time is right. Buy low, sell when the Army gets new rules.

Trains_Get_Robbed wrote:. . . ? Yes they do.

lol They a in the magic item section, thats like saying the Star Lance dosen't count as a magical lance because it gives you S7 on the charge and allows no armor saves.

The reason they put the +2 S when they charge, becaue back in 6th ed. from what I understand, Lances gave varying S bonuses to different armies.

And even if that interpertation was right, how does that detract from the strategy behindhe Heartwood Lance (it had Lance in its name) and Tress of Isolaude?

MAybe they did then. Under the new rules, they are no longer lances. How can you tell? Lances now say "Counts as a lance" or "Lance" in the Rules part of the magic item description.

Check the DE book. Both Deathpiercer and Caldor's Bane have it.

In a 3k game you can use grand army rules, run 4 Trebuchets instead of 2. Also run bigger lances. 15 Knights FTW