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I'm trying to build a list that reflects a company of marines (100 marines + Captain + Apothecary + Standard Bearer + Chaplain). I was able to figure out how to get 99 marines... I"m trying to figure how to fill in that last marine. I was thinking putting an extra marine in one of my dev squads. Then I got to thinking... what do Dreadnoughts count as? Do they count as a marine against the 100 man limit?

WHat do you folks think? Fluff wise... does Dreadnought=Marine?

I'm pretty sure a dread counts towards the number of men in a company, after all they are still a battle brother.

corpsesarefun wrote:I'm pretty sure a dread counts towards the number of men in a company, after all they are still a battle brother.

That is what I'm thinking... They ought to count, shouldn't they?

I get the impression that although they're full battle-brothers (minus whatever's left of them), they dont really count against the Battle Company's limit of 100 brothers.
Dont forget guys like Apothecaries, Librarians and Chappies get attached to companies as the situation or Chapter Master warrants, and lie outside of the company's main structure as officers.
Dreadnoughts kinda function the same way, except instead of being seconded to other companies, they stay with the company they were in before they got interred.
That's why some companies have only the one dreadnought, and others have upwards of 3-5.

YAY

Here's what I got... (assuming Dreads count as battle brothers)...

Captain Sicarius
(Obviously covers the captain slot)

Chaplain with a jump pack
(Covers the Chaplain slot)

Command squad with an Apothecary, Standard bearer, 3 other veterans in a Rhino
(Covers apothecary, standard bearer, and 3 marines)

Dreadnought with Heavy Flamer and Assault Cannon
Dreadnought with Lascannon and Missile Launcher
Dreadnought with Autocannons on each side
(Covers 3 marines)

Tactical Squad w/ flamer, Missile Launcher, rhino, sgt w/ Powerfist
(covers 10 marines)

Tactical Squad w/ flamer, Missile Launcher, rhino, Sgt w/ Powerfist
(Covers 10 marines)

Tactical Squad w/ melta, multimelta, rhino, Sgt w/ Powerfist
(Covers 10 Marines)

Tactical Squad w/ plasma, plasma cannon, rhino, Sgt w/ plasma pistol and power weapon
(Covers 10 Marines)

Tactical Squad w/ flamer, Heavy Bolter, rhino, Sgt w/ chainsword
(Covers 10 Marines)

Tactical Squad w/ flamer, Heavy Bolter, rhino, Sgt w/ chainsword
(Covers 10 Marines)

Assault Marines w/ 2 flamers, and sgt w/ a powerfist
(Covers 10 Marines)

Bike Squad w/ 2 meltas, attack bike w/ multimelta, and sgt w/ combi-melta
(Covers 10 Marines)

Devastators w/ 4 Lascannons , rhino and sgt w/ chainsword
(Covers 5 Marines)

Devastators w/ 4 Lascannons , rhino and sgt w/ chainsword
(Covers 5 Marines)

Landspeeder w/ assault cannon
(Covers 2 marines)

Landspeeder w/ typhoon missile launcher
(Covers 2 marines)


So there you have it... 100 marines, a captain, apothecary, standard bearer, and chaplain... comes to 3500+ points.

I based this sort of off of info from the Lexicanum about Codex Astartes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ronin wrote:I get the impression that although they're full battle-brothers (minus whatever's left of them), they dont really count against the Battle Company's limit of 100 brothers.
Dont forget guys like Apothecaries, Librarians and Chappies get attached to companies as the situation or Chapter Master warrants, and lie outside of the company's main structure as officers.
Dreadnoughts kinda function the same way, except instead of being seconded to other companies, they stay with the company they were in before they got interred.
That's why some companies have only the one dreadnought, and others have upwards of 3-5.

Going off of this info... add in I think 1 more speeder... maybe one with a multimelta... and 1 marine in one of the devs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a thought... maybe the three veterans in the command squad are vets from the 1st company. What do you think... this would then change the list to add yet again 1 more speeder and 1 more marine in one of the dev squads.


SUPER EDIT:

AAAACCCKKKK! Reading through the Lexicanum entry, I found something where I might have messed up on my list. I have one too many groups representing the Assault Squads. ...back to the drawing board.

Look at page 16 of C:SM. Bike squads and speeder pilots come either from that companies Assault squads or from a reserve company, and all vehicles are manned by reserves. So if you take the mandated 2 assault squads your bikes and vehicle crew don't count.

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:Look at page 16 of C:SM. Bike squads and speeder pilots come either from that companies Assault squads or from a reserve company, and all vehicles are manned by reserves. So if you take the mandated 2 assault squads your bikes and vehicle crew don't count.

Cool Beans... totally forgot about the Codex haha. I'll use this info in my reworking of the list.

Dreadnoughts are support "units" in the companies, there is a prime example on pages 18-19 in the Codex.

Neato... Don't know how I missed all that.

Long long ago, Vehicles actually used to list crew, as they could get out and fight if the vehicle was destroyed and not completely blown to pieces. A Rhino had a tactical marine pilot, a Razor had 2 tactical marines (one as gunner), Predators had 4 crew and whirlwinds had 2; devastators. Speeders, bikes, attack bikes were assault marines. Only Land raider crew didn't come from the company as they were property of 1st company.

This, in a 100 man company with transports and support vehicles all crewed from within the company, would mean a bit less infantry marines on the table representing a true company.

Each company had its own dreads, captain and chaplain, but librarians, techmarines, apothercaries were separate attachments.

60 tactical marines is not actually 60 bolter grunts, it also is the command element, including the dread(s), chappy and cappy, and probably a half a dozen rhino/razor crew

20 assault marines crews a squad of speeders, some bikers, and a probably only single squad of jump packers

20 devastators is probably 1 squad of devastators and potentially the crew of a couple of predators and a whirlwind.

If you take into account that all Marine Battle Companies were supposed to be self sufficient, and 100 members strong, 100 Marines starts to look more like about 80 infantry once the vehicle crews and command staff are considered. It is debatable nowadays just who it is that pilots the vehicles any more, but long ago, it was quite specific about the roles each Marine type played in the vehicle assignments.

look at the page that has the Ultramarines 2nd company laied out in its entirety.

Captain Sicarus

Chaplain

Command Squad 5 man

6 tactical squads

2 Assault Squads

2 Devestator squads

2 Dreadnoughts


107 marines without the Dreadnoughts.

Chaplains don't count towards the Company limit as they are part of the Reclusiam.

it isn't known if Command squads count either.

Rhino and Razorback pilots are part of the Armory and don't count.

Speeder pilots are part of the Reserve company.

Bike squads are Assault marines that have dropped their Jump packs for bikes.

10 squads of 10, two Dreadnoughts, command squad, captain. Not sure how the librarians and chaplains fit in

Please have a look at the following article:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=291

Although the main point of it is discussing the total strength of a Codex Chapter,
it should give some food for thought about how to fill a Company.

I think dreads are considered supernumeraries.

Grey Templar wrote:Rhino and Razorback pilots are part of the Armory and don't count.

Actually, not always.

Some vehicles are permanently attached to a company and are not part of the chapter's armory. In fact, each company is always responsible for its pool of transport vehicles (rhinos, razorbacks and - in the case of the 1st company - LR). Support vehicles like predators, whirlwinds and most of the LR and razorbacks are part of the armory.

I guess it is the same with their pilots. The pilots of a company's transport vehicles answer to this company, and not to the armory.

In the case of your Ultramarines 2nd company, it would mean that would need to include the pilots of 10 rhinos in your list.

The transport vehicle of the command squad might belong to the chapter's headquarter (especially if it is a specialized vehicle like a LR Prometheus or a Damocles rhino). Your apothecary would probably also have its own personal vehicle, a rhino fitted with medical equipment, which would be part of the apothecarion of the chapter.

So, you would need to count 10 or 11 pilots in your list.

they still wouldn't count to the 100 marine limit for the company.

they wouldn't be from Tactical squad B or anything. they are a pilot and thats it.

Grey Templar wrote:they still wouldn't count to the 100 marine limit for the company.

they wouldn't be from Tactical squad B or anything. they are a pilot and thats it.

I perfectly agree.

It simply means that the company would not be 100 marines strong, but 110, or something like that.

Small, Far Away wrote:10 squads of 10, two Dreadnoughts, command squad, captain. Not sure how the librarians and chaplains fit in

Not certain how it is now, but at least in older fluff:

- Librarians were not part of the 10-company Chapter hierarchy (would be assigned for campaigns as needed).
- Chaplains were part of the hierarchy, and one was assigned per company.

Like it has been said, Companies consist of Six Tac Squads consisting of 10 Marines each, Two Assault Squads of Ten men which can also serve as Bikers or they can pull bikers from the Reserve Assault Company, then there is the two squads of Devastators numbering ten men. Captains, Command Staff, Librarians, Chaplains and Dreads dont count towards the 100 men.

Librarians are assigned out by the Librarium depending on the mission, where as Chaplains are permanently assigned to the Company, they can better keep an eye on the Brothers and it would be easier to tell when someone is acting strangely when you are familiar with them.