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Here is a different style Chaos list, designed for Tournament play, and based around Abaddon. I want to keep Abaddon in this list, so it would be nice to avoid any comments saying remove Abaddon

HQ:
Abaddon 275

Zerkers x8 (SC/PF) 208
Plagues x7 (Melta x2, Rhino) 216
Plagues x7 (Melta x2, Rhino) 216
Plagues x7 (Flamer x2, Rhino) 206

Land Raider (Daemonic Possession) 240
Obliterators x2 150
Obliterators x2 150

Which is 1661 if my math is correct.
So basically i don't really know how to complete the list keeping it competitive.
I've only got the Obliterators there, because everyone suggests them for competitive play, they are very solid, i personally prefer Vindicators, although one AV13 tank at 145 points is probably not as good as 2 Oblits.
I also wasn't sure as to who should ride with Abaddon. Zerkers with him, will probably go off and assault on their own, or perform mutli-assaults with Abaddon (unless against something like Thunder Wolves, which may require more attention). Plagues could go with him to act as bodyguards, with Meltas to pop transports maybe. Terminators are another option, i just don't think they are worth it....
If everything stayed in the list (i'm open to changing the troops and heavy supports, just not Abaddon) PF on plagues seem best option, but i'm just not sure how well that list would perform....

I'd actually recommend the Vindicators over the Oblit's. Whilst of course obliteraters are very much the 'swiss army knife' of the Chaos Space Marine army and are arguably the more competitive (as standard) choice, I'd argue Vindicators to fit better in this list.

The problem with Abbadon in a Land Raider is how many points you have in one vehicle, meaning your opponent will likely focus his firepower upon it. However, IMHO two Vindicators are such substantial threats that your opponent will have to try and take out all three, which isn't an easy task. Whilst they're typically superior, Oblit's don't provide the same target saturation IMHO.

Like just dave said, I'd take more heavy vehicles (vindicators, predators, even dreads although I'm not a big fan) to give your opponent more choices for his anti-vehicle units to go after. Or drop the LR+abaddon entirely and spend that huge amount of points on a few more squads of something you need. Unless you're playing 2000pts+ I would never take abaddon. He requires a LR and that makes him nearly 500pts for 2 models. That could instead be 2 fully equipped squads of xxxxx unit with transports.

You have an excellent selection of troops (although I'd personally prefer either lots of zerkers or skip em for regular csm with melta + maybe IoK or something). One unit of berzerkers with the rest of your army sitting back and watching the assault is a bit silly and will probably end up with your berzerkers getting wiped out after they charge. So I'd either recommend 2-3 squads of zerkers + 1 squad of PMs, or 3 squads of PMs + 1 squad of csm or something along those lines. Just decide if you're going to stand and shoot or go for the assault and take the troops that make that decision work. Also consider taking some PMs with plasma. They have FnP for the gets hot rolls and flamers don't really work that great on PMs.

Your heavy support section isn't bad but if you can bring yourself to drop the LR you could take a squad of havocs to go along with the oblits (and/or bump the oblit squads up to 3men each). A squad of havocs with autocannons costs 155pts minimum (damn cheap for 4 heavy weapons) and will give 8 str7 48" range weapons to bring some much needed volume to go along with your quality single shot per oblit.

If you think you might want some more CC friendly + special weapon carrying units you could take a squad of 5x raptors (more if you want, but 5x is a nice efficient number) + IoCG or IoK if you like and 2x melta/flamer/plasma for 120pts (a really cheap way to get lots of melta on the field that travels fast w/o relying on an easily killed transport).

You could also consider some chosen in a transport /w 3-5x your special weapon of choice or the same style group /w havocs (just suggesting chosen b/c they don't eat up a valuable HS choice).

Thanks for your advice. But Halsfield, i really want to use Abaddon in my tournament list, so Abaddon and the land Raider are staying. Unless in testing they are really useless, but when i used to use Abaddon, he was pretty solid.

I would like some chosen, but they didn't fit in this list...

rodgers37 wrote:Thanks for your advice. But Halsfield, i really want to use Abaddon in my tournament list, so Abaddon and the land Raider are staying. Unless in testing they are really useless, but when i used to use Abaddon, he was pretty solid.

I would like some chosen, but they didn't fit in this list...

You'll have to make the abaddon decision yourself, but I think you'll find at this point level he is too expensive and without other big targets he is going to be an easy choice to single out and focus all the enemy's heavy weapons at. A land raider is very tough, but it isn't invincible and with 1750pts of melta+whatever else aimed at it you'll be walking soon enough. I hope it works out but I've found in practice that it doesn't.

The only special character I find useful in lower point games is kharn. He would go nicely with your berzerkers too and isn't in term armor so he doesn't require a LR. He is still a CC beast and will save you a lot of points to spend elsewhere.

Putting abaddon+LR discussion aside...You still have 89pts to spend. That is plenty for at least one more obliterator. Gives you another plasma cannon or multi-melta to help bring down those tough enemies/vehicles. I'd also still reconsider the flamers on the last squad of PMs and give them plasma or swap that squad out for a reg csm squad /w 2x flamer. If you dropped the squad entirely you have plenty of points for the chosen /w tons of flamers/melta/plasma that still can be in a rhino and drive up the line with the rest of your troops. I believe they also still retain the option to outflank even when in a transport so that would give you some additional tactical options.

I hope your wrong about Abaddon, i really like him. But when i used to use him the club i play at wasn't as competitive, i have only ever been to 3 tournaments, 2 at the club which weren't very competitive (and i don't think i used Chaos anyway) and then used Jetseers at ToS in January, but want to take chaos to ToS in October, and Abaddon just appeals, i wouldn't expect to win much anyway, i'm not the best player ever (i think mainly down to my focus, and rash decisions.... I can write pretty decent lists if i try, this probably isn't one of them..).

Kharn could work, he's pretty cool as well. I was going to make a Kharn conversion a while back, i have the model and bits i was going to make it from (a Fantasy khorne champion, with a Plasma pistol added and a couple of other bits done to it).

The problem i'm having making Chaos lists (apart from my other one, because thats mainly what i have available at the moment) is i don't want the 'standard' competitive chaos list, and then other plans i make i end up going way over on points. I wish we played 2000 points in UK
What might be a better idea, is working from my other list (if it works at all that is) and actually for once try to develop and enhance one list/army style, i've never really done that, i just have a set list (for my Marines and crons) with no or little room for change, or like my old Chaos, just changed lists every game for no particular reason (wasn't tailoring...) so never really developed a style before.

I'm with you on not wanting a cookie cutter list. The big problem is that we're an old codex and that limits our viable options a great deal. I personally run an army based around a winged sorcerer with a retinue of raptors, lots of havocs in the back row + one squad of 2-3 oblits, and PMs + csm /w IoN as my troops. I sometimes change it up a bit and use a more khorne army with a fairly stripped down lord leading berzerkers, 0-2x more berzerker squads, 0-2x more reg csm /w IoK /w melta, and havocs + oblits bringing up the rear again.

I think getting away from the very cookie cutter lists with 2x DPs /w lash, 2x berzerker squad 1x PM squad, and 9 oblits in HS is possible, but we're still going to be using a fair bit of those units if we want to win and have a successful list. We just don't have an entire list of solid unit choices like the new loyalist codices do. It wouldn't hurt as much if we had a fun codex /w all sorts of chaos-y units and wargear. Right now we feel very close to a loyalist army with a splash of spikey bits here and there. I think that is why so many people use count-as chaos armies with blood angels or vanilla marine rules(because they already feel like they're playing a vanilla marine list).

rodgers37 wrote:Here is a different style Chaos list, designed for Tournament play, and based around Abaddon. I want to keep Abaddon in this list, so it would be nice to avoid any comments saying remove Abaddon

HQ:
Abaddon 275

Zerkers x8 (SC/PF) 208
Plagues x7 (Melta x2, Rhino) 216
Plagues x7 (Melta x2, Rhino) 216
Plagues x7 (Flamer x2, Rhino) 206

Land Raider (Daemonic Possession) 240
Obliterators x2 150
Obliterators x2 150

Which is 1661 if my math is correct.

I agree with a lot of the points already made. I think you've got a viable concept, but it will be a little bit of an uphill struggle cramming Abby and the LR in there at this points level. I think the Berserkers are the right choice to ride with him, though. They can hit very hard together, or still hit reasonably hard bailing out on opposite sides of the LR to charge different targets if necessary.

The most straightforward way to spend your remaining 89pts is a couple of champions with power fists in two of the Plague squads, so you have three/four viable assault units. Make it the melta squads. If you cut one PM from the flamer squad, with no champ, that would give you enough points to give all three Rhinos combi-meltas.

Alternately, you could swap out the Oblits for a pair of Vindicators with Possession, which would give you more armor saturation. Personally I think the Oblits are more important, though, because you need some 48" range fire support.

I would always go with Oblits over Vindicators, I only ever run 3 x VIndicators when its a friendly game. For serious play it has to be 6 to 9 obliterators. In my oppinion Vindicators are fairly weak and draw lots of fire - the oblits on the other hand are just too versatile to ignore. 2 Wound, Deep Striking, Power Fisting, Las / Plasma / Flamer / Melta. In cover - 2up against mass fire & 4up against everything else and the 5up invunerable. Mate the oblits need to be in your list and I would say they are arguably the best heavy support in the game.

I note that you only want to use Abby and therefore wont comment on HQ chocie. Possesed Landraider is quite a nice delivery system. (potentially) you could run terminators and take the Land raider as dedicated transport and therefore "unlock" another Heavy choice - Just a thought.

Good luck :-)