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I summited a list of mine several weeks ago and had some good responses to that so I have fixed list and I will be play testing this next week so was hoping for a bit more feed back please.

Warboss - squig, cybork, big choppa
Big Mek - squig, kff, cybork, burna

Kommandos - (10) snikrot, 2 burna
Lootas - (10)

Ard Boyz - (20) nob, pk, pole
battle wagon- rpj, plates, riggers, bs, rolla
Shoota Boyz - (30) nob, pk, pole, 3-bs
Shoota Boyz - (30) nob, pk, pole, 3-bs
Shoota Boyz - (30) nob, pk, pole, 3-bs
Nobz - (10)
1. waggh! banner 6. painboy
2. TLS & big choppa 7. pole
3. big choppa 8. TLS & PK
4. skorcha & runt 9. skorcha & big choppa
5. skocha 10. PK
battle wagon- rpj, plates, riggers, bs, rolla

Stormboyz - (20) nob, pk, pole
Warbikers - (8)
Deffkopta - TLR

I was thinking about making the shootas into 3X20 but not sure which is better for Ard Boyz and this is first time I will be trying a competitive tornament. Also I have thought about doing nob bikers and even a kanwall but, when I have tried kanwall has not gone well. Plz give me details and some explanation on things not "add a pk" and leave it at that.
thanks

Warboss needs a Klaw. Big Mek should drop the upgrades.

2 Wagons is cool, but it runs contradictory to the rest of your list. Wagons push forward and you have to wait for everyone else to footslog up?

I'd drop a bunch of the unnecessary stuff (Kommandos, Stormboyz, etc...) and figure out a way to reliably protect your other guys. Either with more Wagons (which would make your list stronger and more linear) or with a Kan-Wall or something.

Well, I guess that wasn't just "add a Klaw"...

It really depends on how you run your Wagon. Do you run it like wtwlf123 thinks? Pushing ahead of your Boyz and getting caught out in the open? Or do you use it more as a mobile command bunker, sitting in the middle of your horde, going forward with your mob firing off its Big Shoota in support, only Ramming when you're in Waaagh!! range? Because that could be very effective, especially with your Kommandos, Lootas, Deffkoptas and Bikers to harry and hassle your opponents before hand, so they can't just concentrate all their firepower on the Wagon.

Okay, I normally play Tau, but Orks (with their similarly old codex) operate on a lot of the same principles. We should strive for a well balanced army, but we have to admit that our codices are not point-for-point competitive and try to find ways to make up for that. The easiest way to do that is to render portions of the enemy army absolutely worthless. For Tau, we max out on fast, elusive suits and tough, 4+ cover save skimmers. For Orks, the two routes available are A) mass battlewagons with KFF saves or B) put zero vehicles on the field to make every point the enemy spent on anti-tank absolutely worthless. What you have here is an ineffective middle ground. You have a TON of points invested in a single vehicle, the Nob wagon. The warboss, the 10 nobs, and the KFF mekboy all depend on that wagon surviving, and at 2500 pts it simply wont last a turn. After that, those nobs and warboss are basically wasted points that will never make it into combat.

Take out the wagon. If you are going to bring nobs, make them bikers and have them push the flank with the least Str 8 on it. Give them more power claws because nobs with power klaws are the best anti-tank Orks have. Or take more storm boys or bikers. Whatever.

There are several things that orks have that are just too awesome to leave behind. Kommandos with snikrot, for instance, are extremely tactically flexible and cover a huge weakness in the Ork army by themselves. Max out his unit, it is worth it.

The next unit I'd mention is Lootas. They simply have one of the BEST wound/point ratios in the whole game. Two max units are what Warmachine players would refer to as an "auto-include".

Replace the big shootas with rokkit launchas. You wont have a problem anti-infantry, but orks need every single bit of possible anti-tank they can get. Also, add more dudes. 90 boys is NOTHING at 2500 pts!

I dunno, I've only played orks a dozen or so times, just some thoughts.

I have tried the Nob biker thing with Wazdakka and a Warboss on a bike. They do quite well, but leave something to be desired, mainly a HUGE points sink in one unit, possibly going upwards of 600pts. In an 'Ard Boyz list this is fine but your opponents quickly concentrate there will upon this unit, thus negating its potential before they can exploit certain situations. Bikers are nice but need to turbo boost often to capitalize on the 3+ cover save and get close enough to assault. They could simply do this once or twice in a game then get stuck in but again become beacons for your opponents elite units. For me, I am also going to try and build a competitive list this time around, thats why i am opting for the 6 battlewagon list with Big Mek, Warboss in MA, two 6 man nob units with 3 klaws, painboy, and big choppas in a BW. 3 units of 20 shoota boyz and 3 battlewagons loaded with weapons. I know I am leaving out a lot so here is my breakdown:

HQ
Big Mek w/power klaw, 'eavy armor(4+ save), cybork body(5+ invulnerable save), Kustom ForceField(5+ cover save for any unit within 6 inches)
HQ
Mega-armoured Warboss w/ammo runt(re-roll one to hit roll), attack squig(+1 attack), bosspole(re-roll one failed leadership check),Cybork body
Elite
7x nobs including a painboy(gives unit 'feel no pain'), 2x power klaw, 2x big choppa, 1 regular choppa, Waaagh! Banner( ups Weapon Skill to 5) cybork bodies,the unit has 'eavy armor, and riding in a battlewagon. The battlewagon has 1x big shoota(S5 Ap5 36" range) and 2x rokkit launchas(S8 AP3 24" range), kannon(frag or krak round), deff rolla(D6 S10 hits, death or glory add another D6 S10, reroll dangerous terrain tests)and a stikkbomb chukka(unit counts as having stikkbombs when assaulting)
Elite
nobs unit same as above except battlewagon has no armament, just the deffrolla
Troops
6x meganobz(power klaws and 3xkombi-skorchas and 3xkombi-rokkit launchas in a battlewagon w/ no armament except a deffrolla
Troops
20x boyz w/shootas and 2x big shootas and nob w/ a power klaw
Troops
18x boyz w/shootas and 1x big shoota and a nob w/ a power klaw
Troops
18x boyz w/shootas and 1x big shoota and a nob w/ a power klaw
Heavy Support
Battlewagon w/a Zzzap Gun(S 2D6 AP2 heavy 1 blast R36"), deff rolla
Heavy Support
Battlewagon w/a killkannon(S7 AP3 Ordinance 1, large blast R24"), Zzap gun(S 2D6 AP2 heavy 1 blast R36"), deff rolla
Heavy Support
Same as Above

With a total of 2500pts thats my list. I am running a total of 6 battlewagons all with deffrollas to deal with tanks and troops. If I tank shock troops they take D6 S10 hits and even if they stand thats another D6 S10 hits. So marines and fearless troops take 2D6 S10 hits because of this, then there is the ramming rule for vehicles, with the deffrolla I can slam into landraiders with a chance to destroy them no problem there's my answer to anti-armour or mechanized lists coupled with large template weapons i can deal with horde armies as well and 4 troop choices to hold objectives as well as 2 elites choices to mop up the groups of nasties that may lurk. I am looking for feed back so please feel free to break down the list and give me suggestions.

wtwlf123: I was thinking that the warboss on a charge will have str 8 int 5 with 6 attacks, on most units that 6 no armour save and most likely going first. Also if I remove upgrades from big mek then were do I put the points? Last am not sure about "dropping unnessary things like kommandos, stormboyz, etc. I understand not many like stormboyz but I don t like gretin and have found if used right storm boyz are crazy good in they can get right up there or flank or if they live move so fast to grab late objective.

anvildude: I had not considered the idea of keeping bw in group but more along the lines of hitting the oppenet in waves, but thanks for idea ill have to try that.

ironfist: I disagree with you saying that if they focus on bw then the nobz will never c battle and even if popped then all tropps still get 5+ cover save from mek. They other thing is that if you shoot bw then you are not shooting lootas, bikers, etc.

I do have 6 kans and 10 more lootas I can add but like I said kan wall has never done that well for me but if you are playing on a standard atable might do better. Also still looking for imput as to the shoota boyz, should i leave them in 30 man squads or go to 20 for more manuvering. I was hoping for some idea from some other players who have played in Ard Boyz before and might have some idea about the scenarios andtroop movement.

Thanks for all imput it is still good to get different ideas as to see if I have not thought of something

Unfortunately the Big Choppa isn't a Power Weapon. It should be, but it isn't.

However, a Big Choppa boss is great for hunting Drednaughts.

I agree about the big choppa being a power weapion, however i was basicly saying that on a charge it will be a str 8 which will not allow armour saves on most things.

You still get an armor save with instant death.

Unless there's something in the rules otherwise... That would be sweet, by the way.

jbuzzsaw wrote:I agree about the big choppa being a power weapion, however i was basicly saying that on a charge it will be a str 8 which will not allow armour saves on most things.

They'll still get a save. But not against a PK.

I guess am confused I had understanding that if str was double toughness then no armour save and instant death, unless inverable save?
Besides this what about list any more changes or suggestions?

I have asked a few people I plan to play test list with tomarrow and they suggest using nob bikers, kan wall, and putting trukks and bw in reserve, any thoughts on this?

Why do most people dislike the stormboyz? Put Boss Zagstruk in there and it's totally worthit. And to be clear, Zagstruk strikes with his power klaw legs in initiative order when he charges, not just when he comes in. Says so in the codex. keep a unit of SB and DS behind your enemy, combined with deffkoptas and...well, you'll see.

You've had my feedback already

jbuzzsaw wrote:I guess am confused I had understanding that if str was double toughness then no armour save and instant death, unless inverable save?
Besides this what about list any more changes or suggestions?

nope,

double toughness simply disallows FnP and causes ID.



in Fantesy you would be close as Str reduces armor saves.

jbuzzsaw wrote:I guess am confused I had understanding that if str was double toughness then no armour save and instant death, unless inverable save?

Nope. You still get a save.

perterabo68 wrote:Why do most people dislike the stormboyz?

Because they're expensive and they kill themselves. They're just not worth the points. Boyz in trucks/wagons are more resilient, cheaper and arrive faster.

Because they're expensive and they kill themselves. They're just not worth the points. Boyz in trucks/wagons are more resilient, cheaper and arrive faster.

Trukks move 18" and then 12" + 2" + 6" charge. So no, they're not faster than Trukks. They're even faster with RPJ.

And they don't kill themselves off everytime they move when they're in a transport. And they're not exposed to small arms fire and templates. And they're less points.

Oh ya, and they're scoring troops too. And they don't prevent me from taking Koptaz.

Am lost how do you get these measure ments?

jbuzzsaw wrote:Am lost how do you get these measure ments?

Trukks are fast, so they can move 18" (19" with Red Paint Job).

If you're gonna assault, they can move 12" (13" with Red Paint Job), you can disembark (open-topped) within 2" of the Trukk, and then you can Charge 6".

So not counting Waaagh!, you can move 19" on turn 1, and then do 13" + 2" + 6" for charging on turn 2.

storm boyz can move 12" + 1d6" and can run as well i believe

They can run, but I belive they lost the Waaaagh special rule with the last FAQ.

jbuzzsaw wrote:storm boyz can move 12" + 1d6" and can run as well i believe

So in the first 2 turns, the Trukks move further, and can assault further, cost less points, don't kill themselves, are protected from gunfire and deliver scoring units.

And the Stormboyz can't Waaagh! either.

I see these are some good points but if you run bikers infront of the stormboyz like I do then they have a 4+ cover save and there are 20 of them that can charge in rather then 12 with a trukk, also stormbiyz don t kill themselves if you just use a nob and even if you don't and roll bad 17 boyz deepstrikeing is pretty good.