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Hey all,

I want to get into airbrushing for both modeling and other applications. The thing is I pretty much know jack about the subject and I don't have any friends who do it to get advice on. I was over at TCPGlobal looking at their immense catalog and it just left me where I began. I know there are brands like Iwata, Paasche, Badger but what I want now is something cheap but good that I can cut my teeth on. I want to learn how to do detail work not just basecoating.

So can anyone suggest a good entry level brush?
Anyone have any experience they'd like to share with the Master line of airbrushes (I saw them on TCPGlobal)?
I have this oldschool Aztec airbrush that I bought some time ago. They still make compatible parts, is it worth trying to revive? Achieveable level of detail?

And real quick for modelling paints like Citadel and Vallejo, what do you cut them with to thin them down for use with an airbrush, and much do you use?

Thanks

-MightyG

I've heard good things about the Master line - cheap(ish) Chinese knockoffs of Iwata, if I'm not mistaken, but quality knockoffs. I think a few regular airbrushers around here use the G43/44 (same brush, different cup shape) quite a bit. I'll let them weigh in on the details, but I don't think a Master airbrush would be a bad investment.

I got mine at a place called Harbor Freight. $100 bucks got me a compressor and two brushes. They may be cheap crap, but it's definitely 1000 times better than Citadel's+expensive cans of air.

I'm told that if you have the $$$ you're better off going straight for a good airbrush. As far as I know, a compressor is a compressor though. Air cans are expensive, and give poor results that rely too much on the weather. Get a compressor asap and you'll save lots of money and headache.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MightyGodzilla wrote:Hey all,

I want to get into airbrushing for both modeling and other applications. The thing is I pretty much know jack about the subject and I don't have any friends who do it to get advice on. I was over at TCPGlobal looking at their immense catalog and it just left me where I began. I know there are brands like Iwata, Paasche, Badger but what I want now is something cheap but good that I can cut my teeth on. I want to learn how to do detail work not just basecoating.

So can anyone suggest a good entry level brush?
Anyone have any experience they'd like to share with the Master line of airbrushes (I saw them on TCPGlobal)?
I have this oldschool Aztec airbrush that I bought some time ago. They still make compatible parts, is it worth trying to revive? Achieveable level of detail?

And real quick for modelling paints like Citadel and Vallejo, what do you cut them with to thin them down for use with an airbrush, and much do you use?

Thanks

-MightyG

There are lots of vid tutorials on YouTube (some from regular Dakka posters as well) and I highly encourage you to watch them. They cover all the questions you posed.

Another thing I highly recommend is your local model/train stores will often have "modelling clubs". Sign up and GO. Airbrushing is fairly new technique to our hobby (why that is frankly is a mystery) and to achieve the results you desire it behooves you to take advantage of the experience of military modellers who've been using Airbrushes and dry pigments since they were invented. I'm quite a veteran gamer and it was always looked upon as "cheating" to use things like spray paints and Airbrushes on anything other than large scenery pieces and it still is fairly rare that gaming merchandise and model/railroading merchandise are found under the same roof. But as the armies grow larger and the desire for better results and less painting time grow, our hobby needs to embrace these age-old techniques and throw aside old biases toward hand-painting every little thing.

If you're planning to seriously learn how to airbrush and expect to do it for a long time. Invest in good quality things now. I'm not saying to go and toss out a few thousand dollars but this is the roadmap I usually give people.

~Stay away from knockoffs! It's cheap now but once you learn how to use it, you'll appreciate the quality of spray.

1. The brush:

I see that you're in the USA. Find a Michaels or AcMoore neer you. (I don't know if dakka has a policy about linking to websites as an advert but it's an easy google search)

Sign up for their mailing lists. They will send weekly 40-50% off coupons for one item in the store. This is a huge discount, with the money saved you can pocket it or put it to upgrades later.

The ones close to me stock Badger and Iwata, both of these are good brand names to go for. Iwata makes the Eclipse as their entry level brush, it's high quality but it's on the more expensive side. ~$2-300. Also replacement parts are not easy or cheap to come by in retail stores.

I recommend any of the Badger 150's. They are solid and affordable dual action brushes, meaning the trigger will control paint flow and airflow together. Replacement needles and tips are easily found and easily labeled as Fine, Medium and Large. Which is good for the beginner who doesn't know what a .XXmm tip will do for them.

Cup size and placement is totally user preference. I have 3 brushes I use constantly.

~A suction feed with a large cup that is almost always filled with primer, unless I'm doing a VERY large area of something in color.

~A small gravity feed cup which is my main workhorse.

~and the third is a very tiny cupless well inside the body of the brush, that holds just a few drops. I'll use this for switching colors quickly when I'm blending.

Most importantly: Get something that feels comfortable in your hand.

2. Compressor.

You WANT a compressor. Painting with a can will cause more trouble than you can imagine wile learning. Stay away from the compressors usually sold with airbrushes. The problems with these are that they are usually piston type with no containment tank. They generate a lot of internal heat which will make condensation inside of your lines. IE:Water will come out with your paint.

A lot of people will tell you the compressor choice is more important than your choice of brush. I agree to an extent. HarborFreight sells very reasonably priced units. You'll want about a 2gal tank. That's enough for the air to rest and cool a bit after being compressed. You can go for a bigger tank setup if your budget will allow and if you don't like to hear it click on from time to time if you're painting a lot.

Also, two things to note! I always like to keep a line dryer and a water/oil separator inline. Badger airlines sometimes have a small dryer built into the line, which is nice. Though I also have a larger unit that is mounted to the wall and also acts as my pressure regulator. Piston type compressors will add a small amount of oil to the air since they are using the air inside of the cylinder to compress. where diaphragm compressors open and close a membrane separate from the motor to compress the air.

That's about all I can think of to get you started.

Edit:

MightyGodzilla wrote:
And real quick for modelling paints like Citadel and Vallejo, what do you cut them with to thin them down for use with an airbrush, and much do you use?

Vallejo makes a whole line of air color, they are quality paint much more suited for airbrushing than the model color lines. It has to do with the size and count of the pigment. I stay far from spraying citadel paints, not only are they the most expensive paint per ml. They have a very large pigment which will gum up the internals of your brush and lead to more frequent cleanings. I've thinned them with liquatex airbrush medium and a drop of flow improver in the past.

Ok - So I've been doing this for about a year now. Expert? Heck no.

However, I have had some good and bad learning experiences.

I'm still experimenting with paint mixes. Right now I've been doing 50/50 water/paint, however I'm doing 25/25 /50 windex/water /paint

Still working on that.

I have 3 brushes (4 if you count the games workshop gun!)

First one is a badger brush, not bad, but picked it at Michaels for ~100 bucks. It's crap, syphon fed.

second is a DAGR Devilbiss. This guy is good, however I haven't been able to get it down to fine lines, I can sometimes, but I think my fingers are just slowed. I really like using this to base my models with whatever color I happen to be using (been using necron abyss followed by regal blue currently).

Next, and don't judge to harshly. I actually found this one by using the zenith airbrush technique found on here for the GK terminators.

G444 http://www.tcpglobal.com/airbrushdepot/master-precision.aspx

Pros: Cheap, and I mean dirt cheap. High quality production (doesn't feel like it's cheap)

Cons: Well, I've only had this one for a week, so I'm still trying to figure it out. I had some trouble spraying some white primer, but the paint was just too thick, so we'll see. Had some trouble with a little sputtering as well (Sputtering is the devil!)

As others have mentioned, GET A COMPRESSOR. Canned air sucks. I have this compressor, TC700 : http://www.tcpglobal.com/airbrushdepot/compress.aspx#abd_tc700

Works great, adjustable PSI, and pretty quite. (Wife can't hear it in the house if I close the door to my office (it's upstairs).

I also watched a ton of tutorials, and although these aren't necessarily a tutorial, this guy taught me a ton just from his simple videos. http://buypainted.com/index.php/category/basic-techniques/

Particularly the preshading, small parts, force weapon,

and this one: http://buypainted.com/index.php/uncategorized/how-to-paint-space-marines-drop-pod-of-ultramarines/

Pre high-lighting. Working to master this one currently.

I would pretty much recommend watching almost every video on 'how to paint'. Even the GK land raider one shows a pretty great way to do patterns.

As for the brush, the most important thing is to get a dual-action airbrush. There are a myriad of different options out there, so you´ll have to find out what you´re comfortable with. If possible, go to a store and try different ones so you can get a feel.

I personally use Vallejo Paints in my brush - Game Color, Model Color and Model Air. The Model Air you can use straight from the bottle, the other ones you´ll have to thin to use properly. I use Liquitex Airbrush Medium and maybe a drop of "Magic Water" (10:1 distilled Water to Liquitex Flow-Aid) to get the right consistency - which should be somewhat like milk.

Hope that helps,



IK-Painter

Wow, thanks for the many informed responses. So here’s my update.

Towards the end of yesterday after watching a few video reviews I decided to pick up a Paasche Talon. It’s dual action with a stop feature that lets you set a maximum amount of paint coming out of the brush. I like that as a beginner, I don’t want to be trying to do fine work and pull back the trigger too far and blotch everything up. The body has a cup mounted on it (no siphon) and it comes with three needles/caps @ .25, .38, & .66mm, hose, other fixins. I’m assume the small needle is for smaller lines, big for big.

I decided to stay away from the PacRim knockoffs and I remember seeing Paasche about as much as Iwata and Badger so I’m hoping for the best. I found a new one from an eBay store and I happened to have a coupon so $94 Usd free ship, on its way to my house right now.

Other stuff.
Michael’s – My mom mention the coupon thing too the last time we talked. So I’ll get signed up and let the discounts roll in. There are about 3 Michael’s within a 30 mile drive, but they’re all pretty small so I don’t think I’ll be buying brush parts there as much as Liquitex products. But I did find about 3 online stores I’d frequent for airbrush parts.

Compressor –A friend of mine with an airbrush and compressor has offered to loan me his as he’s never used his setup and doesn’t think he’ll get around to it in a while. I’m going to take him up on his offer for the short term, and get a 2 gallon from Lowe’s/Home Depot as the money comes available. I do contract work sometimes and I can use the 2G on jobsites and around the house.

Can any of you guys link me line traps (for water/oil)? Right now I’m not familiar with the industry jargon for them. If I had one or two links I’d be able to find one I’ll like.

Harbor Freight - Love that place!

Other Stuff – Thanks for the input on the Liquitex airbrush medium and the magic water. Also the advice on the paints. I’ll try and get a hold of some VA AirColor. The only stuff I can find locally is Citadel, so it’s mail order time. Any suggestions on where to get VA Game and Air colors cheap?

Also Cleaning. What do you guys use to clean your brushes with (water/windex/preffered cleaner)? And how extensive is the breakdown? Does it have to be totally broken down/cleaned after every color or can you do something like shoot a color, run a bunch of water/windex/cleaner through it, next color, and at the end of the day do the big clean up?

Thanks much for the input. Looking forward to hearing from you again!

-MightyG

Very awesome, glad you came to an educated choice. Looks like you picked out something pretty good for your money, especially with all of the needles and tips. You're definitely correct in going for something with the stopper. I didn't even think about it but it's invaluable when you're learning the new muscle memory you'll be training.

For paint-
I believe thewarstore.com still sells Vallejo in the states. I've gotten very lucky to find a retail store close to me who carries them so I hope someone else can correct me if there's a better place online to get them.

If it's the easiest for you, it's not that you can't use citadel paints or even use the ones you have. They just aren't fantastic for it. I'd read around a bit if Aircolor is a hard find in your area. I know Vallejo gets pretty backed up on their orders. I think I've seen people thinning citadel with everything known to man from windex, alcohol, mediums etc... I just don't like how quickly they muck up the internals. Could also be my mixes aren't perfect. Privateer Press I think is the p3 line? They are said to have a very small pigment and can be worth a venture, I haven't gotten anything but their washes around here so I don't know how it will work thinned for brushes.

Cleaning - Looks like yours will have a pretty big cup, between colors you can run some solvent through your brush and change colors once it comes out clear. With cups, just take a peek inside and even wipe down the inside of it to make sure you're not going to get dry flakes from the last color in your well. Some paints dry in a quick film around the inside of the cup wile you're painting. As for what to clean with: it's best to go with what the manufacturer recommends. Distilled water, alcohol/water mix and the usual brush cleaning fluid is typically an all around safe bet for any brush to quick clean. Some solvents for your deeper cleanings can damage the rubber seal inside of the body that goes around the needle.

first thing you should do is learn how to brake down the brush. The manual should have an exploded view in it of all of the pieces. Obviously don't force anything, take your time and assemble/disassemble it a few times so you'll have an easier time cleaning it up your firs time. You will want one of the micro brush sets to clean the internals. Nylon only. Some places still sell steel and brass ones, though I don't like the idea of putting anything that abrasive inside of a precision tool like an air brush.

Edit: Your air cleaner setup will depend on what compressor you end up with, it's just easier to tailor it to your space that way. They are just so versatile and come in so many flavors.

Since it looks like you ended up with a basic shop compressor, a single compartment one is just fine for you. It'll look like a big pill usually. I can't find a good picture of one on google, main thing is to keep it a few feet from the compressor. one of the self coiled lines to the drier is great. then you can hang the drier at a convenient spot with a quick connect on the end if you'd like or you can run another line from it to your desk.

I also have one of these just for a little extra insurance that goes from my compressor line to my brush. Some people only use this and a small catch can. though I'm overly cautious that my brush doesn't suddenly spurt water mid painting.

I ha been looking into getting started too these posts have really helped.

Coper where dose one get a fancy thing like that? (the thing in the picture that you posted).

Just an experience thing... I went to Home Depot to get a compressor just to find out the compressors they sell don't have the right connectors for an airbrush. What the suck. An airbrush at the hobby store was like $300 so that was a no-go. The one I got at Harbor Freight I got for two reasons: #1 it was only $100, #2 it came with an airbrush and I was so frustrated at that point I got it because I KNEW I could hook an airbrush to it. Even if it's crap, I should get loads of use out of it before it dies and it was cheap. I figure by the time I understand the ins and outs of airbrushing, I'll know what to buy the second time around.

I use a Paasche Talon and you couldn't have picked a better brush. It's easy to take apart and clean, and works like a charm. They also offer 3 needle sizes depending on your needs, and offer a fan tip for base coating larger items like tanks or whatnot.

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:Just an experience thing... I went to Home Depot to get a compressor just to find out the compressors they sell don't have the right connectors for an airbrush. What the suck. An airbrush at the hobby store was like $300 so that was a no-go. The one I got at Harbor Freight I got for two reasons: #1 it was only $100, #2 it came with an airbrush and I was so frustrated at that point I got it because I KNEW I could hook an airbrush to it. Even if it's crap, I should get loads of use out of it before it dies and it was cheap. I figure by the time I understand the ins and outs of airbrushing, I'll know what to buy the second time around.

I'm pretty square on the compressor path. 2Gal compressors that you buy at DIY stores you use line adaptors to go from a standard connection to one you'd logically use with an airbrush. I've got my eye on a Porter Cable 2Gal pancake compressor. Mainly because I'll be using it on future jobsite and not just for hobby uses.....making the equipment pay for itself. If I'm lucky I'll get some nail/pin guns with the buy - they always do that around holiday weekends.

aerethan wrote:I use a Paasche Talon and you couldn't have picked a better brush. It's easy to take apart and clean, and works like a charm. They also offer 3 needle sizes depending on your needs, and offer a fan tip for base coating larger items like tanks or whatnot.

Nice!! Glad to hear that. You might be getting some PMs in the near future as I'm trying to get this Talon to work for me. It looks pretty damn cool. I've got the 3 needles and fan tip with the package I bought.

-MightyG

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:Just an experience thing... I went to Home Depot to get a compressor just to find out the compressors they sell don't have the right connectors for an airbrush. What the suck. An airbrush at the hobby store was like $300 so that was a no-go. The one I got at Harbor Freight I got for two reasons: #1 it was only $100, #2 it came with an airbrush and I was so frustrated at that point I got it because I KNEW I could hook an airbrush to it. Even if it's crap, I should get loads of use out of it before it dies and it was cheap. I figure by the time I understand the ins and outs of airbrushing, I'll know what to buy the second time around.

Wile it's not a bad idea to use a cheap brush until it burns out. You're going to basicly re-learn the muscle memory for a new brush. No two will flow alike and it's a very fine touch I'm sure you've noticed.


Also the hose output size of a compressor makes no difference. As long as the pressure is regulated between the compressor and the brush you can buy brass adapters to change your line size to anything you need. they are very inexpensive. About $2~$10 depending if you want quick connects.

Harbor freight carries all the parts needed to fit to the Paasche hose depending on your compressor.

MightyGodzilla wrote:Hey all,

I want to get into airbrushing for both modeling and other applications. The thing is I pretty much know jack about the subject and I don't have any friends who do it to get advice on. I was over at TCPGlobal looking at their immense catalog and it just left me where I began. I know there are brands like Iwata, Paasche, Badger but what I want now is something cheap but good that I can cut my teeth on. I want to learn how to do detail work not just basecoating.

So can anyone suggest a good entry level brush?
Anyone have any experience they'd like to share with the Master line of airbrushes (I saw them on TCPGlobal)?
I have this oldschool Aztec airbrush that I bought some time ago. They still make compatible parts, is it worth trying to revive? Achieveable level of detail?

And real quick for modelling paints like Citadel and Vallejo, what do you cut them with to thin them down for use with an airbrush, and much do you use?

Thanks

-MightyG

Here are some tips to start:
1: Get a cheap knock off airbrush, fool around with it until you can win a painting competition or a few

2:Get a very compact compressor and if you can make sure it doesnt compress air with a piston of somesort as they will overheat very quick around 20-30 minutes of painting

3: When the time has come buy some monster like this: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=compressor&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=17453520263155447493&sa=X&ei=mWgfTuy5KvK20AH9p7CmAw&ved=0CFMQ8gIwAg

4: Get a good airbrush

The Paasche Talon set he's getting only runs about $80-90 iirc. And a small diaphragm compressor is like $50-70.

If you don't mind the noise, a compressor from a hardware store would work fine. I know that the one my dad uses around their house is extremely loud, and quite obnoxious. I love the fact that I can use mine and still hear music playing.

Also, get one that has a 'constant' on that will maintain the same pressure for large jobs.

I tend to purchase entire armies at a time, so that means I'm base coating 10-15 vehicles at a time, the constant on feature is a nice bonus.

Oh, my last piece of advice. If you think you've watered it down enough, you haven't. Add a little more.

Oh oh, one more. I picked up these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00207CO7I

20 bucks for 500. I use them for everything now. They're great for getting a few drops out of citidel pots, or adding just a drop or two of water to the cup.

Here is other stuff I have found helpful:

General modeling:
Cutters: http://www.micromark.com/Patented-Cam-Action-Sprue-Cutter,6442.html
Seam Scraper *THIS IS A GODSEND*: http://www.micromark.com/Seam-Scraper,7547.html

Airbrush Specific:
Mixer: (I use this to mix right into the cup of the brush for smaller amounts of paint) http://www.micromark.com/Cordless-Mixer-for-Model-Paints,7616.html
Holder (trust me, you want one of these): http://www.micromark.com/Airbrush-Holder,8525.html
Cleaning brushes: http://www.micromark.com/5-piece-Micro-Cleaning-Brush-Set,7911.html


Optional IMO, and somewhat pricey
Spray booth: http://www.dickblick.com/products/artograph-model-1520-economy-spray-system/

The humidity and heat suck here in DC area. So I do it in the house. I learned the hard way that you can literally get paint EVERYWHERE in the house, and I when I say everywhere I mean it. I live in a 3 level town house, I sprayed models on the ground floor. Wife was cleaning the bathroom the following weekend, the cloths from wiping down the sink? Yeah, blue. Luckily it's such a fine mist that it doesn't really show.

Oh, and our boogers turned part of the tissue blue... eww.

You can make your own, but after pricing it out, it came to about ~125 bucks, and I had to put it all together. I said F it and paid the extra hundred to have it 'done'. (that didn't include filters).

When cleaning it out - if you don't have a designate sink fo rit. Paint ends up everywhere. If working with foundation paints, that crap stains even our stainless steel (not permanent, but requires a cleaning agents). Us this: http://www.tcpglobal.com/airbrushdepot/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=ABD+TP-50

I think that is everything I've bought over the last year or so. Most of it useful.

MightyGodzilla wrote:

pffft... Mighty my foot. Only thing mighty about about you is your agent and the script writers you seem to get. Stupid star power. Just for the record, the ONLY way you beat me is when you ganged up with one of your buddies. Maybe one day everyone will know who the REAL king of the monsters is; King Ghidorah.



King Ghidorah

Ghidorah wrote:

MightyGodzilla wrote:

pffft... Mighty my foot. Only thing mighty about about you is your agent and the script writers you seem to get. Stupid star power. Just for the record, the ONLY way you beat me is when you ganged up with one of your buddies. Maybe one day everyone will know who the REAL king of the monsters is; King Ghidorah.


King Ghidorah

Lol Ghidorah I knew this day would come. I've whipped your ass plenty of time over the last 40 years. Star power is right....I've got a MTV Lifetime Achievement Award, writers, agents, winter home! What have you got...envy. Bow down to the king baby and I'll throw you a bone next gig I sign up! And if ya can't I'll meet you at the flagpole, after school, 3:00 PM for your next ass whippin!

-MightyG

MightyGodzilla wrote:.. I'll meet you at the flagpole, after school, 3:00 PM for your next ass whippin!

Yeah. You and your fanboys Rodan and Gamera? What do I get for my posse? Stupid space aliens...

Stupid writers.

And for the record, one on one, I could drop you with two heads blindfolded. You'll never see that movie, though, 'cause these petty humans love the "good guys".




Ghidorah
Who had no need to reinvent himself... ever (Godzilla 2000 (fail)).

If you live near a Hobby Lobby, every couple months they put their airbrush stuff on sale for 40% and every other week they do a printable coupon for 40% anything in the store. I picked up a duel action gravity-feed Iwata which they normally sell for $67.99 and got 40% knocked off while they were on sale. Then used the printable coupon and got a small piston compressor for another 40% off. Not a bad deal.

This thread has made my day for all the wrong reasons XD

So if you were to go with a say shop compressor since harborfreight has a 3 gallon one on sale would a moisture trap/regulator be recommended and of so which one?

Also what sort of adapter peices would be needed to make it all work together? compressor to hose to moisture trap if need be and that to air brush.

http://models-workshop.com/buying-a-new-airbrush/

I own a G44, Iwata Neo, Devilbiss Dagr, and Harder and Steenbeck. They all have Pros and Cons. The H&S is by far the best brush but is also about $270. I can not recommend Masters enough to people just starting. The G44 is the best starter brush for modeling. Cheap, forgiving, .2mm tip.

Thanks I watched your vid very helpful

Found my dads master craft compressor that he dosnt need haha the one with the 3 ish gallon tank so compressor covered airbrush and the other stuff time.

Looking to get myself an airbursh, I'm in the uk tho so any good recomendations would be brilliant, would make painting tanks a whole lot better and quicker

http://www.everythingairbrush.com/acatalog/Airbrushes.html

The AB-180 is their version of the Masters G44. I have not ordered one from the UK but from what I have seen on the spec sheets it is the exact same airbrush, just with a different brand. So far this is the best UK airbrush site I have seen for price and delivery if you need a compressor.

Cheers man, I take it gravity fed is the way to go?

I have me a G44 ordered.

And ya gravity fed seems to be the thing syphon only for large areas.

Graavily feeds take less pressure to work which means you can get finner detail work. Also aas far as I know .30mm is the smallest yoou can get a siphhon while .20mm is semi common for a gravity and as small as .15mm (Harder and Steenbeck Infinity).