Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sorry if this is an old argument being brought up again, but I couldn't find anything using search so heregoes.

Screamers of Tzeentch are T4 in their profile, and their unit type is Jetbikes, so shouldn't they be T5 ?

People argue that they don't actually have bikes, which seems irrelevant, their unit type is jetbikes.

I've also heard that most all Tzeentch models are T3, so the bonus toughness is included, but it doesn't say T3(4) so why would that be assumed so ?


It wasn't addressed in the CD FAQ, so I guess I'll just ask here. Do you consider them T4 or T5 ? How do you normally see them played ? Would you have a problem with anyone playing them either way?

Looks like you're right. They probably should be 3(4).

You would have a RAW case for playing them as 4(5), but I don't think it would make you popular. I would strongly suspect that it's just an oversight, and the writer of the codex overlooked the toughness benefit and was just making them Jetbikes for the movement rules.

I think this is a little like jump infantry and the dreadknight, or a hive tyrant. The unit is meant to move like jet bikes, but are not meant to actually be jet bikes. Much how the dreadknight is an MC, that gets a 12" move, not a jump infantry unit.

If they had a bolter or other non-assault weapon, they wouldn't get relentless, theoretically.

None of that actually means anything, of course. But they're t4, not t3(4) or t4(5), and it's pretty clear to everyone that's the way it's supposed to be, so we don't have to spend much time arguing about it.

T4. All other Tzeentch models are T3, so it would appear to me that the bonus Toughness is included in the profile. One thing about putting 3(4) is that it looks weird since daemons are immune to instant death anyway. Perhaps, the writer of the codex realized this and felt there wasn't a need to write its' Toughness value that way?

I am going to have to agree that the bonus is already included in their profile so they are T4. It is the same thing with Plaguebearers having a T5 instead of T4(5). Demons just "work" differently in these cases.

alright so nobody plays them T5, got it.

Kurce wrote:T4. All other Tzeentch models are T3, so it would appear to me that the bonus Toughness is included in the profile. One thing about putting 3(4) is that it looks weird since daemons are immune to instant death anyway. Perhaps, the writer of the codex realized this and felt there wasn't a need to write its' Toughness value that way?

Flamers of Tzeentch are Toughness 4 though?

Two units to keep in mind are necron destroyers and tau crisis suits. The crisis suits are T4, not T3(4) and the destroyers are T5, not T4(5).

The idea behind the lower toughness for instant death is that the rider can be blown to pieces before the equipment he is riding can. The screamer, crisis suit, and destroyer are all modeling the fact that the rider isn't 'exposed'. Rather than thinking 'oh, jetbikes add +1 to T' think 'some jetbikes have squishy riders, thus they have -1 T for instant death'

So screamers are T4 and that is that.

Damn...