Black Templar 2k Competitive Or Not?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Nettik189**

Ive taken a break from my Black Templar since i started SoB and White Scars. I dont have all the models yet but they can soon b ordered on Ebay. I was thinking to myself after reading 3 Tau battle reports i hate massive shooting armys. So i decided to make one of my own, this list isnt tailored to defeat any specific army just thought it would be a blasty. Please be harsh

Emperors Champion 110
Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch

Terminator Squad X 5 275
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5
Chain Fist x 2

Terminator Squad X 5 275
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5
Chain Fist x 2

Terminator Squad X 5 275
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5
Chain Fist x 2

Crusader Squad x 5 149
Initiates x 5
Lascannon
Rhino
Smoke Launchers
Searchlight

Crusader Squad x 5 149
Initiates x 5
Lascannon
Rhino
Smoke Launchers
Searchlight

Crusader Squad x 5 95
Initiates x 5
Lascannon

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Predator Destructors 126
Lascannon Sponson
Search Lights

Predator Destructors 126
Lascannon Sponson
Search Lights

**NOTE** Changed to reflect current list

**unbeliever87**

Well it's a decent start. You definitely need more troops, and you're paying an awful lot for that Terminator Command squad when you can get cheaper Lascannions elsewhere. Change those Rhinos to Lascannon Razorbacks as a start. Those Land Speeders are too vulnerable in squadrons, take them in squads on one.

Black Templars are one of the few codexes that I don't know the exact points costs for everything from memory, so apologies if my points are off marginally, but something like this would be better:

Emperors Champion, Abhor the Witch - 110
Terminator Squad, 2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Tank Hunters - 265
Venerable Dreadnought, TL-Lascannon, Missile Launcher, Tank Hunters, Smoke Launchers - 168
Venerable Dreadnought, TL-Lascannon, Missile Launcher, Tank Hunters, Smoke Launchers - 168
Crusader Squad (5), Lascannon, Meltagun, Razorback with TL-Lascannon, Smoke launchers - 187
Crusader Squad (5), Lascannon, Meltagun, Razorback with TL-Lascannon, Smoke launchers - 187
Crusader Squad (5), Lascannon, Meltagun, Razorback with TL-Lascannon, Smoke launchers - 187
Crusader Squad (5), Lascannon, Meltagun, Razorback with TL-Lascannon, Smoke launchers - 187
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launcher - 70
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launcher - 70
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launcher - 70
Predator Destructor, Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 110
Predator Destructor, Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 110
Predator Destructor, Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 110
Total: 1999

2 x s10, 14 x s9, 6 x s8, 6 x s7 for Mech.
12 small blasts and 18 s5 shots for Hordes.

Man, as a Vanilla SM player I WISH I could take this much firepower at 2000 points.

**Nettik189**

Your list is a bit high. But as my list was it was 30 Missiles a turn + 7 Heavy Bolters + 2 Lascannons. I am aware my army is limited on troops

but sacrifices must b made =P I could take out the rhinos completely and get another tactial squad and use the terminators as a wall infront of them. The Lazerbacks are 90 points for BT which is IMHO a bit to high just for a TL LC. I like the idea of a dreadnought i might drop a Terminator squad for one. If im not mistaken you can only have one venerable dread though. I HATE Predator Destructor i will never use them i hate the idea of autocannons. Let me crunch some numbers to put out a new revised list

**Akroma06**

Nettik189 wrote:Ive taken a break from my Black Templar since i started SoB and White Scars. I dont have all the models yet but they can soon b ordered on Ebay. I was thinking to myself after reading 3 Tau battle reports i hate massive shooting armys. So i decided to make one of my own, this list isnt tailored to defeat any specific army just thought it would be a blasty. Please be harsh

Emperors Champion 110
Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch

Castellan 327
Holy Orb of Antioch
Terminator Armour
Auspex
Terminator Command Squad X 4
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Terminator Squad X 5 265
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Terminator Squad X 5 265
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Terminator Squad X 5 265
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Crusader Squad x 5 139
Initiates x 3
Neophyte x 2
Lascannon
Plasma gun
Rhino

Crusader Squad x 5 139
Initiates x 3
Neophyte x 2
Lascannon
Plasma gun
Rhino

Land Speeder Squadron x 3 210
Typhoon x 3

Land Speeder Squadron x 3 140
Typhoon x 2

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Take Accept any challenge, no matter the odds not abhor the witch on the EC.
Models in Terminator armor can't have a holy orb

. I honestly love the new faq since it gave us shooty terms like this, but I would make one Assault sword brethren with 4 claws 2 hammers and add you castellan (I would upgrade to marshall). I would also drop all that he has and give him 2 LC an Adamantine mantle, and bionics. No command squad. I would put him and the CC terms in a LRC. As for the crusader squads I would go all 5 man intiates no neophyets, (some like them I can't see why) and only give them flamers or MG and either a PW or PF. Put them in TL LC razorbacks. Add another squad of them. I would drop the speeders down to 2 groups of 2 and just give them multi-meltas. Without a codex I can't give you exact points but you should have some points left over.

**Nettik189**

AACNTO is useless in a shooty BT list kill the Witch is the better of the 2 cheapest vows. I completely missed that on my Castellan thanks, Im not trying to make a assault BT army list as previously stated. BT dont use their Lazerbacks they are 90 points which is ridiculously high for a transport that any damage chart would make it ineffective. People break up the crusader squad like that because you save 12 points per squad and seeing how im NOT trying to assault i dont need Initates to fill the squad. New list coming out in 5 minutes.

**Akroma06**

Ok...I didn't get the "I'm making this shooty." I thought you wanted the opposite. BT are not really a shooty army although they can be. Yes neophytes save points but are also weaker making it more likely they die. Lazerbacks work in BT they just can't be spammed. Especially at this pt level. Accept is still the better vow, as you will get into CC, even Tau do. Giving you reroll to hit makes it more likely to win that CC and get out of it. Besides one squad I really didn't add that much CC I just made the others able to survive it while they go out and grab objectives.
Another thought would be to drop the speeders for Predator Destructor? (TL lascannon one) with las sponsons with PoMs, as most people will leave it be thinking "oh I stunned it I can move on." Keep in mind you have a BS 4 on that now not 2. Also you may try PoMS on a vindicator, as you now have a 36" threat range demolisher cannon.

**Nettik189**

Emperors Champion 110
Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch

Marshall 357
Terminator Armour
Storm Shield
Storm Bolter
Bionics
Auspex
Terminator Command Squad X 4
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Terminator Squad X 5 265
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Terminator Squad X 5 265
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Dreadnought 165
Venerable
Twin-Linked Lascannon
Missile Launcher
Tank Hunter

Crusader Squad x 5 139
Initiates x 3
Neophyte x 2
Lascannon
Plasma gun
Rhino

Crusader Squad x 5 139
Initiates x 3
Neophyte x 2
Lascannon
Plasma gun
Rhino

Crusader Squad x 5 139
Initiates x 3
Neophyte x 2
Lascannon
Plasma gun
Rhino

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

So i dropped a terminator squad and a Typhoon the pick up a Dreadnought and another Crusader squad. I beefed up the Marashal a bit. I was also thinking a list like this might work

Emperors Champion 110
Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch

Terminator Squad X 5 265
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Terminator Squad X 5 265
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Terminator Squad X 5 265
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Crusader Squad x 5 137
Initiates x 3
Neophyte x 2
Lascannon
Rhino
Smoke Launchers
Search Lights

Crusader Squad x 5 137
Initiates x 3
Neophyte x 2
Lascannon
Rhino
Smoke Launchers
Search Lights

Crusader Squad x 5 137
Initiates x 3
Neophyte x 2
Lascannon
Rhino
Smoke Launchers
Search Lights

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Predator Annihilator 134
Heavy Bolters
Smoke Launchers
Search Lights

Predator Annihilator 134
Heavy Bolters
Smoke Launchers
Search Lights

Thats 2K on the dot and with the BT searchlight rules night fight wont be to much an issue if i can light up 5 targets and have massive fire on those 5 vehicles Critiques?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I like the idea of Demolisher With PotMS i was making a list around it but with this list i would have to drop to much to add 3 cannons that will b hit and miss with.

I dont think BT should ever take Lazerbacks IMHO its not ment for our army. But you can take a Rhino w/ a Lascannon Initate and pop the top and do it that way. It might not be twin linked but if you run a plan squad with nothing its 80 pts + Lazerback 90 pts you are looking at a 170 point TL LC vehicle that if gets stunned or shaken cant do to much (shooting wise). This way if i get stunned i can unload and still shoot the lascannons and use the rhinos to castle in objectives.

The second list has 2 Predator Annihilators im liking the feel of that list too. Now some would say you get more lascannon for cheaper with the Destructor but if you move you and only shoot one weapon anyway so i would rather have it be a TL LC then a sponson. With the few points i had extra i gave all vehicles smoke and searchlights which IMHO might make them more worth it.

**Dave_Fay**

I would consider upgrading to a marshal for rites of battle.

BT still suffer from kill them all and the termies would test on LD8 (LD 9 - 1)

Also by Bionics (It's Free)

I'd ditch the rhino for more troops

The termie command squad is really expensive.

Here's the missile list that i run at 2k.

EC AAC 140
Marshal, Bike, Mantle, Artificer, Bionics, THonors, Pfist, Storm Shield - 220
Terminator Squad, 2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Tank Hunters - 265
Terminator Squad, 2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Tank Hunters - 265
Terminator Squad, 2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Tank Hunters - 265
Typhoons x3 - 210
Typhoons x3 - 210
Typhoons x3 - 210
5x Crusaders x4 BPCCW, Melta, Drop Pod 120
5x Crusaders x4 BPCCW Lascannon 95

2000 pts

Kill point missions you should be fine.

In objective games reserve your troops and use land speeders to contest

**Nettik189**

Terminators arent affected by Kill them All seeing how they arent Infantry, Jump Infantry or bike sqauds. Bionics arent free they are 5 pts and you have to roll a 6 to stand back up not worth the points IMHO

BT w/out transport is crazy talk

the transport is more used to shield them from harm than drive them places.

**Akroma06**

Bionics are a modified feel no pain. Teminators are infantry and are affected by "kill the all." Dreads, and vehicles are the only things not affected.

**Dave_Fay**

Are they free or still cost 5 pts?

It doesn't say anything about it in the faq.

I could have sworn they changed them in previous faqs.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1620223a_Black_Templars_Version_1_1.pdf

**Nettik189**

Yea they defantly arent free.
How are bionics a form of Feel No Pain?

**Akroma06**

Nettik189 wrote:Yea they defantly arent free.
How are bionics a form of Feel No Pain?

That is what they essentially give except it is only a 6 not a 4+...almost exact same guidlines too, if not the exact same.
Edit: You are right though they are not free.

**Nettik189**

anys critiques on the last army list with the Annihilators?

I think that will be the list i play with

**Akroma06**

I would rather have the shooty dread from the first list in there as just that extra umph of power instead of the termis. Btw most predators stay still and with PoMS you can split fire or move 6" and fire 2 things, so I like that better over the autocannon preds. I have never liked typhoons, but I get your theme but I still might chop them down to 2 squads.

**Nettik189**

What im thinking though for 265 pts i have 4 missle lanucher shots with tank hunter for 165 points i have a TL LC and Missle Launcher

For the extra 100 points i get 2 extra shots

**Akroma06**

Nettik189 wrote:What im thinking though for 265 pts i have 4 missle lanucher shots with tank hunter for 165 points i have a TL LC and Missle Launcher

For the extra 100 points i get 2 extra shots

Yes but mine is str 10 against armor and twin linked

plus the dread still has a missle launcher and won't get hurt by anything short of an autocannon or a rending assault cannon.

**Nettik189**

Emperors Champion 110
Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch

Terminator Squad X 5 265
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Terminator Squad X 5 265
Cyclone Missile launcher x 2
Tank hunters x 5

Dreadnought 165
Venerable
Twin-Linked Lascannon
Missile Launcher
Tank Hunters

Crusader Squad x 5 134
Initiates x 3
Neophyte x 2
Lascannon
Rhino
Search Light

Crusader Squad x 5 133
Initiates x 3
Neophyte x 2
Lascannon
Rhino

Crusader Squad x 5 133
Initiates x 3
Neophyte x 2
Lascannon
Rhino

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Land Speeder Squadron x 2 140
Typhoon x 2

Predator Destructors 125
Lascannon Sponson

Predator Destructors 125
Lascannon Sponson

Predator Destructors 125
Lascannon Sponson

It hurts me to write Predator Destructors =( Critiques?

**Dave_Fay**

Dread has to be Ven to take Tank Hunters

**Akroma06**

Yeah, the dread has to be venerable...if you don't like the predator destructors the don't run them. I like them so I suggested them and gave my reason. Other than that the list looks pretty good.

**Nettik189**

Modified to be Legit!

I hate autocannons but im getting more bag for my buck with em tho

21 Missles, 10 Lascannons, 3 Autocannons, 6 Heavy Bolters

**Akroma06**

Ok I am alittle turned around as I don't have my codex with me. Which pred has the autocannon and which has the TL LC?

**Nettik189**

Annihilator has the TL LC and Destructors have Autocannons but its cheaper to get the Destructors ad upgrade for the LC

**Akroma06**

Ok so...ugh

. I feel like a duesch. Annihilators are what I was talking about the whole time and I kept saying destructor. My bad dude. I prefer Annihiliators with PoMS. Ugh that really irks me now.

**Nettik189**

i knew what you where talking about but with how tight the points are i cant afford PotMS + Lascannon Sponsons thats nearly 100 points if not more. This was at least i have 2 LC per vehicle + Autocannon

**Akroma06**

Yeah it is expensive and something else to consider is how much you already have in anti-tank with all the tank-hunter termis the troops with Lascannons, etc.

**unbeliever87**

Nettik189 wrote:But as my list was it was 30 Missiles a turn

The problem is half of these were on squadroned Av10 vehicles. My list has ant-tank spread out over 14 different units.
Yeah I was sure I got a few points costs wrong, everything was from memory.

Your new list is much better, except it still doesn't have enough troops. Seriously, how long do you expect 15 Ld8 marines to last? Drop 3 of the Typhoons so they're units of one and take 2 more Crusader dquads. Also, I'm fairly certain that you have to take 5 Initiates as a minimum, rather than going for 3I/2N to save points - unless the FAQ changed that.

**Toban**

I don't know...

You're not really profiting of something that almost no one can do better than BT. Wounds Allocation.

Besides, I absolutely doesn't like hybrid lists, half footslogging and half transported in vehicles. This will onyl help your enemy in all the "target priority" considerations.

IF you wanna go shooting and still wanna go footslogging I will advice you something like this:

HQ - Emperor's champion - Accept. 140

HQ - Marshall w/ LC, Stormshield, Orbs, Teleport homer and Adamantine Mantle. 165
4x Terminators as Command Squad
1 CML/chainfist/stormbolter
1 CML/PF/stormbolter
1 CF/stormbolter
1 sgt with combi-melta/stormshield
Tankhunters. 240

EL - 5x terminators:
2x PF/stormbolters
1x CML/chainfist/stormbolter
1x CML/PF/stormbolter
1x CF/stormbolter
Tankhunters. 275

EL - 5x terminators:
2x PF/stormbolters
1x CML/chainfist/stormbolter
1x CML/PF/stormbolter
1x CF/stormbolter
Tankhunters. 275

EL - 5x terminators:
2x PF/stormbolters
1x CML/chainfist/stormbolter
1x CML/PF/stormbolter
1x CF/stormbolter
Tankhunters. 275

(6x )
TR:
- 2x Initiates - bp/ccw
- 2x Initiates - bolter
- Initiate - Lascannon
- Neophyte - bp/ccw. 105 (630)

Tot. 2000

Of course not a very funny list but in an actual meta full of covers and long ranged low-rate anti-vehicle weapons this list can seriously make noise.

Unfortunately, now a days, there are really better gunlines available.

**Roguejm11**

LOTs of things already said about this army. Will be rough for me to keep up.

I like the idea of using Terminators as long range shooting, but what do you do with them from there? Just hang out and shoot missiles? Should be using Space Wolves and Long Fangs then for like 100 points instead of 300.

But I am curious, why does no one consider bikes with a BT list?
x3 bikes with x3 Melta-guns for 122 points. I have used a 2-3 groups of these over the Typhoons, and yes I realize it is 122 pts VS 85 pts. But the survivablity is insanily different.

Also, I understand the desire to save points, but neophytes? I mean really... its like taking IG troops in a Marine list.

If you are wanting to make a shooty Space Marine list, you are MUCH better off playing Vanilla Marines. They can take multiple heavy weapons in marine squads, they can take many more options with dreadnoughts, and still have almost the same cost for predators. Oh and everything is cheaper for troops, and razor backs, etc.

**Nettik189**

Toban: For one you cant take a command squad of terminators unless your marshal is in terminator armour aswell. Also half the army isnt footslogging and the other half transported. I have Crusader squads that are in rhino for cover and objective securing. You have a choice shoot at my Crusader squads or the 6 landspeeders, 10 terminators, 3 Preditors, Or dreadnought. Seeing how they are in a vehicle even if you single it out and blow it up i can position myself out of TLOS seeing how it is a small squad or spread them out in the wreckage for cover. Done get me wrong i know i am low on troops and i am now going to have to rework it out hopefully i can get it this time

unbeliever87: you are right i didnt catch that is specifically says 5 Initiates my bad. thank you for the catch

Roguejm11: BT terminators are Relentless so i can move up the field and still shoot what ever i want i dont have to stay back BUT it is always an option depending on what i need them to do. I have been playing BT since Armagedon i will never leave them! I run bikes in my other lists they are a great asset that people over look. I will either give em all melta guns or all power weapons + attack bike they become a huge distraction. the Neophytes would of been another type of wound allocation but it was illegal =( Troops for Vinilla marines are more expensive when you look at what you have to buy to get a heavy weapon. for 95 points i have a 5 man squad and a LC granted Lazerbacks are extremely expensive. Thats also why i said they shouldnt be used by BT players. if you take a rhino you can still fire out of it as long as you dont move.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
HQ = 562
HQ - Emperor's champion - Accept. 140

HQ - Marshall w/ SS, Terminator armour, Auspex, Chainfist 422
4x Terminators as Command Squad
1 CML/storm bolter
1 PF/stormbolter
1 CF/stormbolter
1 sgt w/stormshield /CML
Tankhunters 270

Elites = 825
EL - 5x terminators:
2x PF/stormbolters
1x CML/chainfist/stormbolter
1x CML/PF/stormbolter
1x CF/stormbolter
Tankhunters. 275

EL - 5x terminators:
2x PF/stormbolters
1x CML/chainfist/stormbolter
1x CML/PF/stormbolter
1x CF/stormbolter
Tankhunters. 275

EL - 5x terminators:
2x PF/stormbolters
1x CML/chainfist/stormbolter
1x CML/PF/stormbolter
1x CF/stormbolter
Tankhunters. 275

TR: x 3 = 438
- 2x Initiates - bp/ccw 146
- 2x Initiates - bolter
- Initiate – Lascannon
Rhino
Searchlights

Fast Attack = 170

Land Speeder 85
Multi Melta
Typhoon Missile Launchers

Land Speeder 85
Multi Melta
Typhoon Missile Launchers

Changed it up a bit made it legal

3 Troops still are a little low but its better than 2 i will probli attach the EC to a terminator squad just for some more wound allocation (for shooting) for how cheap it is for BT to get typhoon speeders its an insult to not use em