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In order not to derail another thread:

GreyHamster wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:

GreyHamster wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:
Reduce Draigo back to S4 and T4. I actually can find no reason as to why he is probably the only Astartes character with basic S5 and T5.

And Mephiston gets a free pass at S6/T6? Canis Wolfborn also has S5/T5.

Well, Mephiston is a Daemon Prince and Canis is riding his thundersquirrel.

You're sure about that first one? That the entire Blood Angels chapter missed their Chief Librarian being a Daemon?

Quite sure. Here's how it goes down:

-Sanguinius joins Horus, so the Emperor kills him and covers it up to make him look like a hero.
-The Death Company are Blood Angels who have learned the truth and are so distraught and outraged that they go into a terrible frenzy and they be kept away from the other Blood Angels for their safety and to keep the truth from spreading.
-Astorath goes around decapitating(skulls for the skull throne?) far gone Death Company to make sure the Inquisition and such don't learn of the BA's secret.
-Mephiston, while trapped under all that rubble, comes to except Sanguinius's betrayal, is gifted by the Chaos Gods, and becomes a Daemon Prince(hence his statline).

It all makes sense now!

No. Clearly stated Horus kills Sanguinus
Death Company have visions of them fighting Horus over and over again.
In a way Astorath keeps the inquisition off their back, but not for these reasons.
Mephiston is a mystery, but he didn't learn the "truth" you have stated.

Nice try though.

Pure speculation.

He's just a Grimaldus wannabe. Seriously compare their stories.

He's a vampire Space Marine. Vampires have beastly S and T compared to normal humans. Space Marines have superior S and T to normal humans. Now take a Space Marine, with already beef S and T and give him all the powers of Sir Christopher Lee (or Frank Langella or Gary Oldman, whichever you prefer). Gonna have a higher S and T than just a 4.

Guys, it was a joke. A joke.

That was funny Tzeentchling. You had me going for a second. I was all like 'What? No!' Thanks for the cartoon to put it all into perspective.

Well obviously Horus killed Sanguinius, but that was because Sanguinius had accepted the gods' offer, but they wanted only the strongest to be their champion, which meant an immediate duel to the death with Horus.

You see that way, we get Sanguinius falling to chaos, AND we get to have Sanguinius being a weaker fighter than Horus. Much more rage potential.

@op an interesting theory but, no. just no.

squidhills wrote:He's a vampire Space Marine. Vampires have beastly S and T compared to normal humans. Space Marines have superior S and T to normal humans. Now take a Space Marine, with already beef S and T and give him all the powers of Sir Christopher Lee (or Frank Langella or Gary Oldman, whichever you prefer). Gonna have a higher S and T than just a 4.

Lets go with Gary Oldman.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Khorne despises psykers, the followers of khorne in other traitor legions killed all the librarians in their chapter.

Actually, there is a strong possibility that Mephiston is in-fact possessed by a Daemon Prince, although the rest of the claims were 'slightly inaccurate'...

Maybe Horus killed the Emperor and the corrupted Sanguinius is in-fact the one on the throne; leading to the gradual decline of the Imperium and the eventual victory of Chaos. As planned...

Just Dave wrote:Actually, there is a strong possibility that Mephiston is in-fact possessed by a Daemon Prince, although the rest of the claims were 'slightly inaccurate'...

Maybe Horus killed the Emperor and the corrupted Sanguinius is in-fact the one on the throne; leading to the gradual decline of the Imperium and the eventual victory of Chaos. As planned...

It is implied he lost something when he beat the black rage it could of been his humanity. It would make for a good story, but I don't know how GW would explain him still fighting for the chapter and murdering all their enemies including some servants of Chaos. Maybe with a classic "Just as Planned"

Just gonna say this, there is a Space Wolf character who is noted to be large for an Astartes, with S5 and T5.

Implying that such physical stats are possible if the marine is physically exceptional.

Void__Dragon wrote:Just gonna say this, there is a Space Wolf character who is noted to be large for an Astartes, with S5 and T5.

Implying that such physical stats are possible if the marine is physically exceptional.

Not exactly. For the record, Canis Wolfborn is S5 T5 because he rides a Thunderwolf. The wargear entry for the TW specifically grants +1 S and T to any model riding on it.

As far as precedent goes, Arjac Rockfist is XXL, and he only gets S5, T still 4. I guess that means that as far as that goes, if the marine is REALLY BIG, he might be blessed with higher strength, but there is very little precedent for higher T in marines. Marneus Calgar doesn't even get +1T.

My personal theory on Draigo is that Russ is playing a joke on the GKs and stole his armor to gallivant about the warp. It's the only thing that makes sense; no 'mere' space marine could possibly do what Draigo is purported to do.

This is a pretty out there conspiracy theory, but I've heard worse.

Brother SRM wrote:This is a pretty out there conspiracy theory, but I've heard worse.

Example of said "pretty out there conspiracy theory", specifically though it's a worse example http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/388975.page

spyguyyoda wrote:Not exactly. For the record, Canis Wolfborn is S5 T5 because he rides a Thunderwolf. The wargear entry for the TW specifically grants +1 S and T to any model riding on it.

As far as precedent goes, Arjac Rockfist is XXL, and he only gets S5, T still 4. I guess that means that as far as that goes, if the marine is REALLY BIG, he might be blessed with higher strength, but there is very little precedent for higher T in marines. Marneus Calgar doesn't even get +1T.

My personal theory on Draigo is that Russ is playing a joke on the GKs and stole his armor to gallivant about the warp. It's the only thing that makes sense; no 'mere' space marine could possibly do what Draigo is purported to do.

I was talking about Rockfist, yeah. Though thought he had T4 too. Oh well.

No "mere" Primarch could do what Draigo is purported to do either.

Just Dave wrote:Actually, there is a strong possibility that Mephiston is in-fact possessed by a Daemon Prince,

Not really. The recent FAQ made a whole bunch of things daemons that people previously would never have suspected, but Mephiston wasn't one of them.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Actually, there is a strong possibility that Mephiston is in-fact possessed by a Daemon Prince,

Not really. The recent FAQ made a whole bunch of things daemons that people previously would never have suspected, but Mephiston wasn't one of them.

What? So this FAQ instantly discounts any possibility of possession? The same FAQ that labelled Obliterators as Daemons?
GW likes to keep secrets and a sense of mystery (e.g. Lost Chapters/ Blood Ravens etc.); hence it being suggested in several places that Mephy may have been possessed, him having price-like stats and yet being modelled and listed as just a powerful Space Marine..

Hahaha! Amusing!

I always figured that psykers used their abilities to augment their physical capabilities. Mephiston being a super powerful psyker can have insane stats because of this.

That's why, in 2nd ed, a culexus assassin could 'drain' the stats of psykers by being in base to base with them!

It's never hinted he's a prince although it's possible. It simply says he lost something of his old self, his personality is different, it is even stated that he beat the Rage with pure willpower. It is a possibility, but has no real backing.

Nicholas wrote:No. Clearly stated Horus kills Sanguinus
Death Company have visions of them fighting Horus over and over again.
In a way Astorath keeps the inquisition off their back, but not for these reasons.
Mephiston is a mystery, but he didn't learn the "truth" you have stated.

Nice try though.

Although it was a guardsman, an Imperial Fist marine and a custodes first if I recall correctly. Clearly a cover up by the Inquisition in a deal with the Deceiver to keep the last to join the traitors a secret in order to eliminate the void dragon. With the eventual distraction leading to the Deceiver being the ultimate being in the materium only to reveal that the energy being had been killed off millennia ago (before the Nightbringer was tricked) leading to Tzeentch occupying the necrodermis the Deceiver once used.

Class, pure class!

peebzguy wrote:
Example of said "pretty out there conspiracy theory", specifically though it's a worse example

One of the other wacky ones is that Horus killed the Emperor and was mortally wounded, and it's actually him on the Golden Throne. I think that's wackier since the logic of Horus still supporting mankind against Chaos is hard to justify.

Brother SRM wrote:

peebzguy wrote:
Example of said "pretty out there conspiracy theory", specifically though it's a worse example

One of the other wacky ones is that Horus killed the Emperor and was mortally wounded, and it's actually him on the Golden Throne. I think that's wackier since the logic of Horus still supporting mankind against Chaos is hard to justify.

wat?

^
^
though the Emperor did not just "kill" horus, he completely destroed his soul and mind with his phycic might

Some claim that Horus in fact won and he or Chaos tricked Rogal to believe it was the big E he was placing on the throne...
Of course there's no evidence for this theory and I don't believe it myself, but it's there...

dakka has a new face.

The theory is really far fetched, and had very little backing. One of it's points was that the Chaos marines say death to the false Emperor because they know he's a fake and are actually the good guys or something.

spyguyyoda wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:Just gonna say this, there is a Space Wolf character who is noted to be large for an Astartes, with S5 and T5.

Implying that such physical stats are possible if the marine is physically exceptional.

Not exactly. For the record, Canis Wolfborn is S5 T5 because he rides a Thunderwolf. The wargear entry for the TW specifically grants +1 S and T to any model riding on it.

As far as precedent goes, Arjac Rockfist is XXL, and he only gets S5, T still 4. I guess that means that as far as that goes, if the marine is REALLY BIG, he might be blessed with higher strength, but there is very little precedent for higher T in marines. Marneus Calgar doesn't even get +1T.

My personal theory on Draigo is that Russ is playing a joke on the GKs and stole his armor to gallivant about the warp. It's the only thing that makes sense; no 'mere' space marine could possibly do what Draigo is purported to do.

What I find odd is that Cassius gets T6 because he's largely augmented with bionics, yet calgar is something like 60-75% machine and he doesn't get FNP or T6. :/

Valkyrie wrote:He's just a Grimaldus wannabe. Seriously compare their stories.

You have this backwards. Grim appeared in the standalone codex in 2004, Meph's story was already published in at least the 1998 3ed Codex.
It is total BS that Meph is as beasted out as he is. Can't we go back to S4 T5 and give him an invul, call it a day.

AustonT wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:He's just a Grimaldus wannabe. Seriously compare their stories.

You have this backwards. Grim appeared in the standalone codex in 2004, Meph's story was already published in at least the 1998 3ed Codex.
It is total BS that Meph is as beasted out as he is. Can't we go back to S4 T5 and give him an invul, call it a day.

No, because then every hero hammer advocate would endlessly QQ that their codex is ruined and unplayable, and the tidal wave of twilight fanboys would flush and swoon over not having arguably the fastast and toughest beat stick in the game, and that he's balanced.


Forgive my ardor, the local meta is at least 20-30% BA all with meph, GK purifier spam or draigo wing at 10-15%, Space puppies all with Logan Beefnar fang spam at 30-40%, etc