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Definitely a good idea. We have managed to negotiate rates where costs to the US are similar to the Euro zone but costs to the far east and australasia are phenomonally high in comparison. However, the prices will be very competitive. We are also thinking of having free postage over a certain pledge value. It is a constant struggle to remain commercial but at the same time making the KS as attreactive as possible.

If you ever release an insectoid-arachnoid race in plastic, I might go bankrupt. especially if their concept is as good as the ones you've shown so far.

We definitely have plans for them in white metal or resin but plastic maybe a stretch. But we will see. We could of course centre a faction around spiders. May be giant spiders, spiderkin and drider types. We will have to see!!!

Deep in ancient arcane ruins or within isolated towers of captured keeps, Hobgoblin Hex Masters hone their knowledge and magical skills in the art of war, destruction and chaos. Although they wont admit it their arcane power is drawn from the same raw, savage and tribal realms of their lesser goblin cousins. They like to be known as warlocks and Archmages but the truth is their magic is based upon the power of curses and hexes and their belief in dark ancient Gods.

Unlike most magic users Hex Shamans do not shy away from combat and like all other Hobgoblins they have to face martial trials on a regular basis. They are often found leading the line, hacking and slashing their way through their enemies whilst they mutter vile curses to hex their victims.

Definitely an interesting concept. How big a base are you putting him on? It looks like you'd need a 40mm base with that pose.

He will be on a 25mm round base with base stone overlapping on one side.

I have to say, while undoubtedly good looking, so to speak, I popped into this thread when it started, saw a bunch of gobbos and thought "meh, not for me"

The thread kept popping back to the top, and so I took another look, and all I can say is wow, you definitely have my interest!

I await the launch of the KS eagerly!

Well THANKS VERY MUCH....is all I can say really!!!

You're welcome! I'm always on the lookout for different models for units in my 40K Daemons army, for which goblins have limited application, but some of what you've shown and talked about latterly has real potential for me.

Wonderfully productive meeting today with the friendly folks at Renedra. I can now confirm the Kickstarter basic funding target will include both the Goblin boxed set and the zombie boxed set. The first stretchgoal will see the addition of a command sprue for both factions. Beyond this will be a host of both free and purchased addon stretch goals. The final figures for the KS are not 100% finalised yet but will be manageable. We went with Renedra because their quality is unsurpassed and I wanted the figures to be of the highest quality possible. This does not come cheap but I am sure you would agree that quality had to be the ultimate goal. To clarify we are concentrating solely on the basic figures of the range in plastic now. The hobgoblins, bugbears, flesh golem and zombie hulk will be metal and resin stretchgoals. For those Lizardkin fans amongst you (and i know there are a few of you) the Lizardkin boxed set will be a later stretchgoal. Due to the enormous demand and hugely detailed work that Renedra do there wi be a 12 month wait before delivery of these models although we will aim to shorten this if possible. I hope this gives you a bit more information about where the KS is heading. Any questions?

Have you settled on a buy-in level for a full starter yet?

We are going to make the rule book downloadable when the KS launches. There will be a stretchgoal for a full hardback version of the rules. The starter boxed set will contain dice, templates and other gubbins. This set wil include 36 plastic goblins and 36 zombies along with the KS exclusive mini. This will be around the £50-£60 mark.

Kaine Larson wrote:
We are going to make the rule book downloadable when the KS launches. There will be a stretchgoal for a full hardback version of the rules. The starter boxed set will contain dice, templates and other gubbins. This set wil include 36 plastic goblins and 36 zombies along with the KS exclusive mini. This will be around the £50 mark.

I suspect you'll do quite well then!

Kaine Larson wrote:
We are going to make the rule book downloadable when the KS launches. There will be a stretchgoal for a full hardback version of the rules. The starter boxed set will contain dice, templates and other gubbins. This set wil include 36 plastic goblins and 36 zombies along with the KS exclusive mini. This will be around the £50 mark.

I'm not complaining. ..but that does seem very cheap.

Is that with shipping included??

If that is with shipping included, please give me your manufacturer and I'll hook him up with some job from me, too!

What will the funding goal be?

36 goblins? How's that possible, you have said that each sprue will contain 10 goblins. How does that make 36?

grefven wrote:
If that is with shipping included, please give me your manufacturer and I'll hook him up with some job from me, too!

Isn't it Renedra?

Both myself and Barzam were wondering if you plan on having any post- campaign funding options available as well. Depending on when this starts makes quite a difference for myself (as a teacher not teaching during the summer), and if I can't pledge a lot up front I'd like to be able to further down the line if need be.

Plus I want lizards!

Kaine, I need you to cave in and replace the goblin heads with more traditional ones. That way I can stop dreaming of modding them up as aliens and stop looking at this thread, which I'm finding much more compelling than I should.

I think you're going to do very well, even with a long wait time, because people have been waiting for affordable, Renedra-quality minis like the ones you're going to produce for much longer than a year. I'll even go out on a limb and say that I think Lizardkin will likely go from a "possibly maybe" to a certainty. And right now, I'd say that's a good thing. I like your concept for them. But I want to address one thing about the direction you're taking them.

My personal preference is for more advanced reptilian races (so I look forward to your serpentmen), but I don't have a problem with stone age lizardmen per se. However, I have worked with Native American people, have Native friends, and have seen firsthand the negative impact that popular stereotypes - particularly the Plains warrior trope - can have upon Native communities. It's not exactly a leading trope in the industry, but beastmen wearing Native American-styled clothes pop up every now and then, conflating Native cultures with Nature, primitivism, and bestial savagery. Mantic's Yndij, most likely riffing on the Na'vi of Avatar, is a recent example. When the parallels are that direct (Ateo Adysi's hair-pipe breastplate, the name "Yndij" seemingly derived from "Indigenous"), I'm uncomfortable with them.

I say "uncomfortable" rather than "outraged" because I think the issue is more complicated than an outsider (to the hobby) academic would find it. These days, even when stereotypical imagery filters into fantasy, it produces a complex mixture rather than a simple, one-note stereotype. For example, what is the Predator? A tribute to the short story, "the most dangerous game"? An armored Japanese samurai? A Native "Noble Savage"? A Roman gladiator? A Rastafarian (Dreadlocks?) An opportunistic riff on Giger's Alien (the jaw), with it's own sexual fetish thing going on (fishnet stockings? Really?)? I think an honest critic would find it extremely difficult to pin the Predator down as based on a clear negative (or positive) stereotype of any human culture, even though it draws from some. And I will admit up front to not having studied this issue (and therefore potentially inviting a better informed academic to hand my ass to me), but if Mickey Mouse has his roots in Sambo caricature, I don't think he's functioned as one in the popular imagination for a long, long time. It is important to know the historical roots of these things and acknowledge them, and forgetting those roots can be problematic at best. But those characters can be transformed over time to the point that their original, objectionable references are no longer recognizable, or, arguably, even present anymore.

Looking at your lizardman concept, the only cultural reference I can detect is the toothed weaponry, which is more Oceanic than Native American. As for your lizardman's clothing and other accoutrements, there's really nothing particularly Native American about them; they're more evocative of popular caveman imagery. In fact, if you hadn't described your lizardman as Native American based, I wouldn't have taken it that way at all, and to me, that's great. I don't have a problem with your concept art. My only point of concern at this point is your textual ascription of that prehistoric, bestial concept art to Native American peoples, who, as far as I can see, are in no way referenced by it.

I hope to see more lizardman concepts like your first, which proceeds down the "old school" path from gaming's own art history* rather than directly deriving from any Native American stereotype. Keep up the good work - I think you're on to a smashing success with this project.

*Thank you to Alpharius for that visual trip down memory lane!

Yes it is Renedra. Each half sprue will be 6 figures. In the Goblin box there will be two sets of weapons and both options will be available. I have been messing with figures all day and we will definitely be looking at between £50 and £60 for the starter set. That will currently be $85-$102 or €63-76.

At the moment I am looking at free UK postage and all pledges of £120 or $200 being free to the US and Eurozone only.

If I were to take the full hit on US and Euro postage prices would have to rise significantly I'm afraid but I am hoping this will be a good compromise. I might be able to change this but I am waiting for the accountant to get back to me.

Kaine, I need you to cave in and replace the goblin heads with more traditional ones. That way I can stop dreaming of modding them up as aliens and stop looking at this thread, which I'm finding much more compelling than I should.

I think you're going to do very well, even with a long wait time, because people have been waiting for affordable, Renedra-quality minis like the ones you're going to produce for much longer than a year. I'll even go out on a limb and say that I think Lizardkin will likely go from a "possibly maybe" to a certainty. And right now, I'd say that's a good thing. I like your concept for them. But I want to address one thing about the direction you're taking them.

My personal preference is for more advanced reptilian races (so I look forward to your serpentmen), but I don't have a problem with stone age lizardmen per se. However, I have worked with Native American people, have Native friends, and have seen firsthand the negative impact that popular stereotypes - particularly the Plains warrior trope - can have upon Native communities. It's not exactly a leading trope in the industry, but beastmen wearing Native American-styled clothes pop up every now and then, conflating Native cultures with Nature, primitivism, and bestial savagery. Mantic's Yndij, most likely riffing on the Na'vi of Avatar, is a recent example. When the parallels are that direct (Ateo Adysi's hair-pipe breastplate, the name "Yndij" seemingly derived from "Indigenous"), I'm uncomfortable with them.

I say "uncomfortable" rather than "outraged" because I think the issue is more complicated than an outsider (to the hobby) academic would find it. These days, even when stereotypical imagery filters into fantasy, it produces a complex mixture rather than a simple, one-note stereotype. For example, what is the Predator? A tribute to the short story, "the most dangerous game"? An armored Japanese samurai? A Native "Noble Savage"? A Roman gladiator? A Rastafarian (Dreadlocks?) An opportunistic riff on Giger's Alien (the jaw), with it's own sexual fetish thing going on (fishnet stockings? Really?)? I think an honest critic would find it extremely difficult to pin the Predator down as based on a clear negative (or positive) stereotype of any human culture, even though it draws from some. And I will admit up front to not having studied this issue (and therefore potentially inviting a better informed academic to hand my ass to me), but if Mickey Mouse has his roots in Sambo caricature, I don't think he's functioned as one in the popular imagination for a long, long time. It is important to know the historical roots of these things and acknowledge them, and forgetting those roots can be problematic at best. But those characters can be transformed over time to the point that their original, objectionable references are no longer recognizable, or, arguably, even present anymore.

Looking at your lizardman concept, the only cultural reference I can detect is the toothed weaponry, which is more Oceanic than Native American. As for your lizardman's clothing and other accoutrements, there's really nothing particularly Native American about them; they're more evocative of popular caveman imagery. In fact, if you hadn't described your lizardman as Native American based, I wouldn't have taken it that way at all, and to me, that's great. I don't have a problem with your concept art. My only point of concern at this point is your textual ascription of that prehistoric, bestial concept art to Native American peoples, who, as far as I can see, are in no way referenced by it.

I hope to see more lizardman concepts like your first, which proceeds down the "old school" path from gaming's own art history* rather than directly deriving from any Native American stereotype. Keep up the good work - I think you're on to a smashing success with this project.

I totally agree with what you have said. I am a serious historian and have a degree in archaeology with a certain amount of anthropology for good measure. My specialty is the Revolutionary War and my interest in North American history and the history of Native peoples is right up there. I meant no disrespect in regard to "the noble Savage" connotation and such I wanted to keep the lizardkin in a vein all of their own. When we designed the lizardkin, I did not say to my artist "I want a native American theme please", I wanted to show a strong powerful warrior from a tribal, war like society reminsicent of many such cultures around the world, Mayan, Maori, Celtic, Nordic etc. Unfortunately, when I type on my I phone my brain doesn't always work as fast as my fingers do and I do sometimes truncate setences I amy well have not truncated if I was on my desk top. No offence meant. I also hate it when people use cultures as templates for fantasy. Peter Jackson Easterlings are wonderful as they show cultural influence from many cultures such as Japanese, Persian, Indian, Egyptian. I am as uncomfortable as you are when it comes to bracketing a culture to my models. Please accept this an apology!

If he replaces the heads of the goblins like the GW ones, he'll lose all the originality (which is what has made me like this, and I'm sure a lot of other people too). He'd also lose al credibility when his artwork has nothing to do with the final product.

Very disappointed about the 10 figures becoming 6 figures per sprue, goblins are very small and it's not like you can have different torsos and legs, so unless I'm wrong and torsos+legs are separate modular pieces that is downgrading the featured sprue quite a bit from what you had said initially.

On the other hand free shipping for USA and E.U. sounds very nice, glad you are considering this especially for people who would like a lot of goblins (and zombies maybe).

I think the request for a head change was a joke, it sounds to me like Vermonter is currently temped by these lovely goblins but doesn't need another project on his hands. Much like myself infact.

This may just be my own thinking warping his intent but I totally understand the problem of "ooh, shiny! Those would make great _____s. But I realy shouldn't start another project."

First of all the head swap thing was a joke!

Secondly, we were going to make it 12 Goblibs a sprue. In fact we are still doing this but we are manufacturing on a half sprue with additional tooled frames coming in sections. So the Goblin half frame will be 6 seperate goblin bodies and legs with a selection if swords and spears. The second half sprue will be 6 goblin bodies with legs and a different bunch of weapons, namely bows. When they are manufactured they will be a whole sprue if 12 figs with bows and swords/spears. So don't worry, there will be 12 figs per sprue but with 6 different body types, 12 different heads (24 in total) and full weapon options. The figures have specifically designed so that each body can make either an archer, swordsman or spearman and still look anatomically correct, much like the Perry's WOTR frame which is an excellent frame.

Kaine and Chaoticmind are correct, the head swap request was indeed a joke. Actually, the unconventional goblin heads are what first sparked my interest in this project.

No apology was necessary, Kaine, but I really appreciated your well-considered response, and I'm glad someone with your thoughtfulness is at the head of this project. Sounds like you and I have similar educational backgrounds and interests, too, as I completed a doctorate in Native American art history last year.

Needless to say, you've quashed my few remaining reservations. I intend to be there when your KS launches, and will follow its development with great interest.

Thanks... The KS is going to start in the first week or second week of September depending on the last minute stuff getting done.

I'm going to be hitting the other forums this week for the first time!

Does anyone have any good ideas about where else I should introduce the KS?

I would suggest Warseer but if it's not GW, there not interested. Maybe BOLS? I've never used it. Is it a forum or a Blog?

Plus Beasts of War and Table Top Gaming News...

I'm compiling as big a list as possible... I am so busy my brains are slowly dribbling our of my ears. I never thought KS's would be this hard

I think beasts of war have already preview some of your art, I'd highly recomend speaking to them, if you get the chance an interview for their blog could go a long way towards getting some backers.

Reaper has a KS specific section of their forums which is pretty active

http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/forum/61-kickstarter/

(you can post your KS and it's progress, just not subsequent pledge manager or retail sales stuff)

Also The Miniatures Page (it a right pain to navigate but probably has enough readers to make the effort worth while)

http://theminiaturespage.com/

Frothers UK where they may well be horrible and rude, (but it's all in good fun generally, and they do have a lot of skilled sculptors/casters etc posting so it's worth thinking about their cirtisisms)

there's a general crowdfunding thread http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40380 if you prefer to post once and abandon it, or you can put up a dedicated post here http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=5 if you're prepared to put in a bit of effort in maintaining it