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FOR THIS POLL, PLEASE ANSWER HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE RULES AS WRITTEN (RAW) SAY.

Feel free to post how and why you voted, but please DO NOT ENGAGE OTHERS IN DISCUSSIONS/ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE RULES SAY. Please create a separate thread if you feel the urge to have this kind of discussion.



The rules for 'Template Weapons' say (rulebook, pg 29): "Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit without touching any friendly models. Against vehicles, the template must be placed to cover as much of the vehicle as possible without also touching a friendly model. Any models fully or partially under the template are hit."


The rules for 'Vehicles & Measuring Distances' say (rulebook, pg 56): "...for distances involving a vehicle, measure to or from their hull (ignore gun barrels, dozer blades, antennas, banners and other decorative elements). There is however a notable exception, a vehicle's weaponry. When firing a vehicle's weapons, ranges are measured from the muzzle of the firing weapon, whilst line of sight is determined from the weapon's mounting point and along its barrel (as explained later)."


The rules for 'Vehicle Weapons & Line of Sight' say (rulebook, pg 58): "Just like infantry, vehicles need to be able to draw a line of sight to their targets in order to shoot at them. When firing a vehicle's weapons, point them against the target and then trace the line of sight from each weapons' mounting and along its barrel, to see if the shot is blocked by terrain or models."


Games Workshop's online Rulebook FAQ (v1.4, pg 3) says: "Q: If a model fires a template weapon out of a vehicle, will the vehicle be hit if it is underneath the template? A: No it will not be hit."




QUESTION: The rules for vehicles firing do not explicitly specify how template weapons are supposed to be placed when fired by a vehicle. Given this, how exactly do you play that templates can/must be placed when fired by a vehicle (specifically those fired from a vehicle's side sponson)?




OPTION A. I play that the template must be placed so that it is shooting straight out of the weapon's barrel. So first, the barrel is rotated to any position it can physically be angled to (or is supposed to be able to be angled to in the case of weapons that are glued or fixed in place) and then the template is placed coming straight out of the barrel. Note that playing this way does mean that in some cases the template can (and must) be placed so that it is slightly covering a bit of the firing vehicle itself.


OPTION A EXAMPLE: The Heavy Flamer barrel can pivot far enough to cover the 4 Wracks near the Leman Russ's hull, but doing so also covers a small portion of the Leman Russ's track as well, which is fine because the weapon can physically rotate to that point.



OPTION B. I play that the template must be placed so that it is shooting straight out of the weapon's barrel. So first, the barrel is rotated to the position it can physically be angled to (or is supposed to be able to be angled to in the case of weapons that are glued or fixed in place) and then the template is placed coming straight out of the barrel. However, I also play that templates fired by a vehicle's side sponsons can never be placed over the firing vehicle itself, so therefore the barrel is never allowed to rotate all the way to the extreme inner position as doing so would mean the template would then cover some of the firing model's hull.


OPTION B EXAMPLE: Even though the Heavy Flamer barrel could pivot far enough to cover the 4 Wracks near the Leman Russ's hull, doing so would also cover a small portion of the Leman Russ's track, so therefore the 3 Wracks must be targeted instead.



OPTION C. I play that the template does not have to be placed firing straight out of the weapon's barrel, but simply must be placed so that the narrow tip of the template is touching the end of the weapon's barrel AND the entire template is within the weapon's normal arc of fire (which naturally excludes the template from ever being placed over the firing vehicle's hull as well).


OPTION C EXAMPLE: The Heavy Flamer barrel is rotated out wide so that the template can be placed to cover 3 Wracks within the weapon's firing arc. So long as the entire template is within the firing arc and the narrow tip of the template is touching the firing weapon's barrel, it can be angled any direction needed in order to cover the most enemy models.



OPTION D. I play that the template does not have to be placed firing straight out of the weapon's barrel, but simply must be placed so that the narrow tip of the template is touching the end of the weapon's barrel. As long as the narrow tip of the template is touching the end of the firing weapon's barrel, then the rest of the template may be placed so that it goes outside of the weapon's normal firing arc.


OPTION D EXAMPLE: The template is placed to cover the maximum number of Wracks possible. It does not matter that much of the template is out of the weapon's arc of fire so long as the narrow tip of the template is touching the end of the firing weapon's barrel.


OPTION E. Something else entirely: reply exactly what it is below.

I voted C, because this IMHO represents real life, that is to say that someone operating a flamethrower is more likely to 'wave' the weapon form side to side in order to set as much of the enemy on fire as possible, rather than just pointing it straight forwards and setting a specific area on fire

Right or wrong I have always played it A.

At our FLGS (which highly specializes in GW games) and through a consistent reading of the rules... I really see it being A

Our store plays it as you cannot place it over a friendly model (because it would be hit), but this might change with that new FAQ ruling.

I've usually done B, but since then new FAQ came out everyone at my LGS including myself have switched over to A...so "A".

I'm still rocking about with B

I havnt seen anything on templates since the (guard FAQ) IIRC Flamers out of fire points

Option E:

The barrel must first be moved into the direction you want to fire it. You can then place it coming out anywhere in a 45 deg arc. Basically, it doesn't have to be straight out, but it can't be at a completely crazy angle.

I have always played A but C makes a hell of a lot of sense. The rules contain a disconnect between a) determining LOS by sighting from the mount along the barrel and b) placing the template so that the small end touches the base of the firing model (in this case being the end of the barrel)which completely leaves out any definition of "firing straight". Nowhere that I'm aware of is the center-line of the template defined and you have already determined that the weapon does have LOS.

Grakmar wrote:Option E:

The barrel must first be moved into the direction you want to fire it. You can then place it coming out anywhere in a 45 deg arc. Basically, it doesn't have to be straight out, but it can't be at a completely crazy angle.

I Voted for C before I read this alternative E. I agree with this, and this is how we play it. This method also covers weapons that are hull-mounted.

I don't think A is ever right since the FAQ refers to models firing out of a vehicle and not the vehicle firing the template itself.
That being said, I'm waffling between B and C. It seems like the template would have to be in the vehicles firing arc, but I'm not sure if it has to fire straight out of the barrel or not.

We've generally played A, but the E above makes sense.

B.

I've always played A

I play D because that's what the rules say to do.

Though it does not come up that much.

DeathReaper wrote:I play D because that's what the rules say to do.

Though it does not come up that much.

When it does come up, do your opponents ever comment? I've never seen someone actually play this way so I know it would at least strike me odd to see that interpretation actually utilized in-game.

And I'm assuming you don't play that the template can go over the firing vehicle when utilizing this method do you?

As the question relates specifically to sponsons my vote goes to B.

yakface wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:I play D because that's what the rules say to do.

Though it does not come up that much.

When it does come up, do your opponents ever comment? I've never seen someone actually play this way so I know it would at least strike me odd to see that interpretation actually utilized in-game.

And I'm assuming you don't play that the template can go over the firing vehicle when utilizing this method do you?

The template sometimes covers my own Land Raider redeemer when I fire the Flamestorm Cannon, if there are a mass of tyranids in front (Happened once) we figured I had to abide by the rule: "place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit"

We figured the flames, would go over the tracks, like in A to get the most models under the template.

On my Flamestorm Cannons we place it at whatever angle abides by the 'template weapons' quoted rule above.

the guys I game with agree this is how it should work, since you have to "cover as many models as possible in the target unit" with no restrictions about touching your own hull.

In fact with my one ball predator i run with a Flamestorm Cannon, it is Impossible not to touch the hull of the predator while placing the template most of the time.