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This is a question related to the deathwatch game, and I'm looking for a fluff response if possible.

Ok let me set the stage. We have a unit of deathwatch marines in some tech-heretics place and the unit's apothecary, who is from the iron hands chapter so since there was no tech-priest/marine around, does a safety check and manually starts up a cogitator, without connecting to it. The cogitator flares up, with some obvious warp nonsense, but nothing major, and the space wolf tactical decides to shoot the cogitator with a multi-melta.

The problem, is that the apothecary was well within the range, failed to notice the marine was doing so as there was no warning, and failed two attempts to dodge out of the way and gets cooked alive (game terms he took 53 pen 30 damage)
The apothecary barely survives, but his eyes are gone now. The space wolf attests he saved the apothecary and deserves a medal. A trial is held, and the space wolf gets stuck with the Chaplin and the robes of redemption, and is stripped of everything but a bolt pistol and a chainsword, and some basic power armor. Space wolf still believes he deserves a medal. Of note, the apothecary doesn't know that it was this space wolf who shot him yet.
Fast forward a little later while the space wolf is still in redemption, and the space wolf walks into a bar, and tries to start up a drinking contest. A commissar shoots one of the people in there, and an argument breaks out between the two of them, resulting in the space wolf trying to punch the commissar and knock him out, SEVERAL TIMES. This is witnessed by the apothecary, who has no knowledge that it was the space wolf who shot him.
The apothecary is wary of the space wolves actions and attempts to maintain watch on the commissar. At one point later, several commissars are called forward, the commissar in question among them.
The space wolf is on a building a good distance away. He aims and shoots at the commissar, and hits in square in the back of the head. The apothecary witnesses this from the point he climbed on the roof.

(In the game, there is an imperial fists librarian who is taking the damage for the commissar, with a psychic power, Later we noted he was using the power wrong, but at least he saved an npc)

Fluff guys, What do marines to in this situation?

Additional information: The space wolf is a veteran wolf scout, as in really veteran. 300 years veteran. He has been caught using the codex astartes as cigarette rolling paper. He also tends to get really, really wasted outside of the mission, and sometimes during the mission.

Please keep in mind we are aware of the player himself and how he is, we are just looking for what to do that's fluffy.

They would Kill the Wolf, he is being a jackass, no Marine should be that stupid to harm someone that is on his side.

He should be killed for levels of doucheyness rivaled only by Leman Russ himself.

Coolyo294 wrote:He should be killed for levels of doucheyness rivaled only by Lorgar and Eldard Themselves.

Fixed

Time to put the rabid dog down as he can't seem to play well with others.

No Space Wolf would act as such. Space wolves are some of the most reasonable marines out there. Maybe a Marine Malevolent would do that gak, but not a Space Wolf. For his crimes against 40k fluff he should be put down. You have a bad player on your hands.


I'd have him banished to the wastes of Fenris. Have him roll a new character.

Since this is the Deathwatch, I guess they would just send the guy home "in shame" to have his actual brethren deal with him. The matter would likely be brought to attention of his Captain, if not the Chapter Master himself.

For the character and his entire Chapter this would be a huge disgrace, but of course the player will likely see it differently. That said, this player appears as if he'd also not provide a different reaction if his puppy would get executed, so what's the point - bottom line is he'd lose his character either way and would have to roll up a new one.

Only problem is that I would have a feeling these shenanigans may continue.

I totally agree with Lyn here.
Tbh as a fellow story-teller there are several ways you can deal with it:
A) Make him re-read how a SW should act and how they think and their philosophies (they are not les and they do not act as such towards their allies)
B) Send his character out as the previous guys suggested and make him re-roll, this will either make him re-consider the behaviour of the character he will role-play or he wont really care and continue acting like that
C) (and my favourite) orcherstrated his fall from grace, and brand him a traitor and a heretic. (I assume it wont be too hard)
D) Talk with him, ask him why he wants to play such a character, and explain to him why you disagree.

This is why I want my players to give me a complete backround and a personality of their characters before we even start...Anyway I wish you best of luck, even though I believe that the guy is there for the lulz and is thinking only of how funny "shooting that guy in the face" would be...

A marine discharging his weapon in (what sounds like) a stealthy operation? Then damaging a machine infront of an Iron Hand? Then being seen in public? "Trying" to injure a servant of the Commisarat?

Sounds like this marine wouldnt have made the cut to be a representative of his chapter.

IMHO it sounds like this player never read anything 40k related. Or he's just a young role player. Make him roll a new character. Better yet, if he just wants to goof off and slow the game banish him to the npc realm where he will only control petty heretics who die faster than you can say "Silly Space Wolf, reckless abandon is for Orks!"

Looks like your friend wants to use his spacewolf for Black Crusade ( once it is finaly released ).

Well from a fluff perspective his superior officer would strip him of his deathwatch honors and probably execute him. (I don't think anyone is allowed to leave the deathwatch, they know too much.)
The apothecary would be right in reporting him to their superiors too. While space marines, the inquisition and commissars fall outside the normal chains of command and rules, neither faction wants to piss each other off. Attempting to punch a commissar could be chalked off as the space wolf being drunk. Shooting a commissar in an unprovoked attack, that is the action of a traitor.

In the world of the inquisition, traitors die quickly.

Side note: A Space wolf would be more prone to jump to action based on intuition, such as shooting the cogniator. However, they would not fire on friendlies to do so unless they truly believed that the cogniator was a huge threat (we are talking summoned demon threat here)
However, he would still be forced to take a trial of penance for harming a comrade. Probably forced to hunt a fenris wolf but naked or something appropriately lethal and macho.

Maybe have a chat to him. The space wolf could also 'be posseed' by a 'Thrayxian mind spore' or something and as it gets worse they rest of them realise there's something wrong.Put the puppy in suspended animation and let him take a different marine for a side mission to find a cure. Hopefully he shouldn't act like a douche and when the puppy gets cured he might be sensible.

Sounds like an immature/douchey space wolf you have there

Shoot him and roll for a new character.
If he does it again shoot that character.
He'll get the message eventually...

Common Space Marine punishments are fasting (with visions quests), self harm or quests of honour. Death is a very rarely used punishment.

As this marine is in the Deathwatch a punishment that could be levied would be sending the marine home without the gifts they would usually be given (pad and ammo), which would be known by the other marines in the chapter.

What you have there is a problem player who is either ignorant of the game's background and atmosphere or simply doesn't care. Don't ask him back next week, tell the other players his character was RTU'd and never mention him again.

The issue is that the space wolf has done things like this, only they have gotten progressively worse as the game went on. Are there any examples of space marines going insane?

Well well well, I see this in almost every game I have played in, one char with a sense of humor thinks its funny to shoot another in the back out of boredom. This trick can work both ways, "get back is a B*tch" as some char's say and who know "Damn that toilet just blew as Dave sat on it, couldn't have happened to a nicer fellow" as the group moves on.

juraigamer wrote:The issue is that the space wolf has done things like this, only they have gotten progressively worse as the game went on. Are there any examples of space marines going insane?

Scouts can lose it during implantation and indoctrination. I assume that, with all the renegade chapters out there, there are numerous paths to total corruption, including good old fashioned insanity- would you consider Huron to be insane, for instance?

Stormfather wrote:

juraigamer wrote:The issue is that the space wolf has done things like this, only they have gotten progressively worse as the game went on. Are there any examples of space marines going insane?

Scouts can lose it during implantation and indoctrination. I assume that, with all the renegade chapters out there, there are numerous paths to total corruption, including good old fashioned insanity- would you consider Huron to be insane, for instance?

Not in the slightest.

Coolyo294 wrote:

Stormfather wrote:

juraigamer wrote:The issue is that the space wolf has done things like this, only they have gotten progressively worse as the game went on. Are there any examples of space marines going insane?

Scouts can lose it during implantation and indoctrination. I assume that, with all the renegade chapters out there, there are numerous paths to total corruption, including good old fashioned insanity- would you consider Huron to be insane, for instance?

Not in the slightest.

Huron is one of the most sane, by far, of all the Traitor Leaders. I mean, he took a Melta Bomb to the face very well.

I think someone needs to go raid a Tyranid hive ship, that'll take care of him and he'll die a hero.

This guy sounds like he doesn't really want to take the game seriously. If he's a total n00b and doesn't know the fluff, or doesn't know how to play an RPG, he needs to be set straight. Bottom line is he needs to play well with others, or he doesn't get invited back.

My suggestion:

First, pull him aside and let him know what he's doing wrong, how he should be behaving, and the stakes involved.

Second, hold a court martial. Have the commanding officer call your Deathwatch unit to parade formation, then preside over the "trial". Call the Space Wolf forward to stand at attention while all the witnesses/victims to his traitorous ways tell what he's done. Let the player make a statement in his own defense. Have the officer pronounce him unfit for duty and dishonorably discharge him from the Deathwatch. Ask if he accepts this fate. This at least gives the guy a chance to show he can play along.

If at any point he lashes out, tries to fight, or refuses to accept his discharge, let the other players execute him without mercy.

If he at least accepts his discharge, let him roll a new character. It even leaves the opportunity of running into the marine again as some kind of crazy rogue or traitor. But if he can't even play along at his own trial, don't invite him back.

The way I see it, the problem isn't the character, it's the player. Though the idea of a trial and discharge and all of that sounds pretty good from a character stand-point, and would make an excellent story in its own right.... but this would only work if the players were all in on it from the beginning.

In this situation you have a player being what my gaming group tends to refer to as a "douchecanoe". His in-character behavior is not only not appropriate to his chosen Chapter, but also violates the spirit of the game. Deathwatch is the dice-and-paper RPG equivalent of a co-op team FPS. Shooting your teammates and stealing all the power-ups in a co-op FPS will also get you excluded from the team.

He also seems to have fallen into the mindset that there is some way for a single character/player in an RPG to "win" and "beat" all the other players. This, of course, is not how it works in most RPGs.

I would say drop the idea of covering anything up with in-character events or role-play and simply take the player aside and tell him to knock it the feth off. Explain to him the basic idea of a team-based game, and how his actions are detrimental to that. If you have to, explain to him the background fluff to the Space Wolves in particular, and the Space Marines in general. Then give him another chance. If his ways are not mended? Don't invite him back to the game, and his character simply vanishes. Permanently.

"What happened to Bob the Space Wolf?"
"After a bender at the local bar, his mistook the forward airlock for the bathroom and took an involuntary space walk. Reviewing last week's session, we had ended the game with the mission in progress..."

Well, maybe, and I say MAYBE, he is a really good player who is role playing his character's slow descent into madness. Try to remember: has his SW ever been exposed to some sort of taint? Demons? Warp influences? Enslavers? Mind spores/brain leaves? Brain worms? Is it possible that something made his faith in the Imperial institutions waver? Has he seen something the memory of which is relentlessly eroding his frail sanity? Has he always been a little brash and unruly? Maybe he is trying to gain something from this? To give some sort of signal in-game or out of it (for example he'd like a more action-oriented campaign, which, being Deathwatch, should already be very much so, or maybe more freedom of action for his character)? Or maybe the player is just a douche?
Have the charachter examined for any trace of taint or corruption, than, should nothing arise, make him face a trial (as the other, much more revered members of the forum already suggested), and have him disonourably cast out of the DW (thus eliminating the PC) back to his chapter, to be the laughing matter of all the Space Puppies. Or make him servitor's stock for the Iron hands as a reparation.
Or maybe even make him into an NPC, making him go renegade and become a potentially recurring anthagonist (savoring the poethical justice of making the same player face his old and lovingly cultivated PC-turned NPC).
Or, if you can stand the bother, have him go into a crusade of penance (either suspending the player for a few gaming sessions if you feel lenient, making the PC heroically die, rediming himself in the process or even roleplaying the whole thing, trying as much as possible to immerse the player in the grimdark atmosphere and fully understand his responsibilities).
You could even attempt some kind of shock-therapy, putting the character in front of a moral decision (saving civilians or killing them to achieve a mission, being forced to collaborate with the Guard and forming a higher opinion of other people in the process, that sort of things).
If nothing else works, and the player continues being a nuisance even after you made him reroll another character, kick him out. Hell, kick him in the 'nads before. He deserved it for wasting your time.

Oh definitely, the guy is the problem, not the character. The whole show trial thing was just a way of giving the change some continuity and giving the guy one last chance to prove he can play along. You definitely need to take him aside beforehand and explain what all this actually means in real life terms. Like, we don't want you in our game if you're going to screw everything up for everyone else, so take your lumps and do better with your next character, or you're out. His character is gone either way, but at least if he demonstrates some maturity about it, you might want to give him another shot.

ph34r wrote:No Space Wolf would act as such. Space wolves are some of the most reasonable marines out there. Maybe a Marine Malevolent would do that gak, but not a Space Wolf. For his crimes against 40k fluff he should be put down. You have a bad player on your hands.


I'd have him banished to the wastes of Fenris. Have him roll a new character.

We've obviously been reading about two COMPLETELY different space wolfs chapters. Honestly, I'd not be surprised to see a Space Wolf veteran acting this way. Reward the player for accurately portraying his character's chapter.

Viersche wrote:Sounds like an immature/douchey space wolf you have there

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Omegus wrote:

Viersche wrote:Sounds like an immature/douchey space wolf you have there

Isn't that an oxymoron?

I think you mean a tautology...

Sounds like he is being corrupted.... so he should get killed