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So you can't decide on a new Fantasy army, okay, here's the steps.

1. Try to do it yourself.

I don't mean to be rude, but it's your preferences and it's your decision, nobody else can make it for you. If step 1 fails though, move on to step 2.

2. Look at the models.

You can find the catalog at www.games-workshop.com, it has all of the models available. Look at the different armies, and pay attention to the look of the models, and the flavor of the armies. This is a critical factor in picking your army, because if you're into sleek, colourful designs you don't want to be left with Ogre Kingdoms sagging man-boobs. If you still want information on how the armies play, then go to step 3.

3. How they play (the reason you're here).

Beastmen - Beastmen: Close combat specialists. Higher than average WS and toughness. Poor armor saves. Excellent Core and Special choices. Magic is centered around the use of buffs and debuffs to increase their combat effectiveness, but is generally ineffective otherwise. No shooting. Really, they don't shoot at all. [Added by SpyguYoda]

Brettonia - Master of mounted combat with Arthurian lore thrown in. The army relies on mounted knights to deliver a devestating charge in hopes of destroying a foe in a single turn. While the knights look for a charge opening, blocks of foot slogging men-at-arms tie up opposing troops while peasant archers and trebuchets weaken them from afar. Weak magic phase and knights tend to get crushed in prolonged combat. [Added by Necroshea]

Daemons of Chaos - An army of super-specialists. They're masters at picking one thing and being the best at it. The exception is the shooting phase, where they only have a few options, and only the flamers are any good. Universal ward saves and magic attacks comes at the price of high model point costs. Their magic phase can either be weak or very strong, with no middle ground.

Dark Elves - For an army without valuable war machines Dark Elves have a devastating shooting phase. All of their units have high-offensive values but come with low toughness, armour saves and wound counts. Dark Elves are a finesse army that have excellent war machine hunters and a strong magic phase. Dark Elves have exceptionally good core choices.

Dwarfs - Dwarfs are the discount tire stores of the Fantasy world. They don't have a magic phase any more, and they're sending the savings straight to you. High toughness, high armour saves and a comical abundance of great weapons make Dwarfs the bricks of the close combat phase. Their war machine artillery gives them possibly the most effective shooting phase in the game.

High Elves - They're like Dark Elves on a direct approach. The same fragility but with strong offensive abilities. They pay for this with higher points costs (making for a smaller model count). Unlike Dark Elves, the strength of the High Elves is in their Special choices.

Lizardmen - Lizardmen come in three varieties, Saurus, Skinks and Monsters. Saurus have high strength, high toughness, high leadership and high points cost. For this they have terrible initiatives, making them fight remarkably like Dwarfs. Skinks are closer to goblins, low attribute blocks, low prices and low ranged missile weapons. Poisons, and skirmishing options make skinks popular. Lizardmen also have just a ton of monsters, each of them unique, each of them expensive. Lizardmen have one of (if not) the best magic phases in the game.

Ogre Kingdoms - The highest points costs and lowest model counts, Ogre Kingdoms are an army of monstrous infantry. Impact hits make them devastating on the charge, and they have a surprisingly powerful gunline. The strength of Ogres are in the core choices.

Orcs & Goblins - Orcs have an exceptional points to attributes cost ratio, but suffer from a special rule that makes them unreliable. Goblins don't have this problem, and combine low points with war machines, strong magic and numerous cavalry options.

Skaven - Easily the largest horde army. Skaven armies typically have an enormous model count of core choices, which orbit the army's exceedingly good Special and Rare choices. Skaven are unique in the sense that they can do any one thing and be the absolute best at it, but will probably destroy themselves in the process. You shouldn't even consider this army if you're afraid of the dice.

The Empire - Modularity. An Empire Army is a water cracker and your core choices are all the spreads you can use. The Empire were built for options and so they have the most. The most popular option is a gunline, built from the numerous firearms units and war machines. A word of caution: don't build an Empire army unless you have a very specific goal in mind, otherwise it wont be especially good at anything and will be beaten by someone who is.

Tomb Kings - Tomb Kings combine excellent Lords, Heroes, Special and Rare units with poor and cost ineffective Core choices. Whether on foot, horseback or chariot skeletons are not worth their points directly, however, in tandem with their wizards, catapults and giant undead sand monsters the Tomb Kings can surgically focus on individual parts of an enemy army. Tomb Kings are a finesse army that require an extraordinary amount of planning. Tomb Kings have a reasonable magic phase and the potential for a surprisingly good shooting phase.

Vampire Counts - Vampire Counts are the army of contrasts. They have without doubt the worst core choices in the game. They're extremely expensive for very poor units. Their Special and rare choices are passable, but unexceptional when compared to anything other than their own core choices. Vampire counts have absolutely no shooting, and are slow moving. What they do have are extremely competent Lords and Heroes. The Vampires double as close combat masters and wizards. Their magic phase is built around resurrection and can recover massive numbers of casualties. Vampire Counts Lords multiply the effective value of nearby units, making them very deadly. This is also a finesse army.

Warriors of Chaos - Their playstyle centres around magic and solid close combat core troops which pack a punch, with characters which outshine most other races in terms of stats. These units can be further buffed with marks of the chaos gods and through warshrines, especially the chosen of chaos which can begin the game with both.
These come at a price however as you will be fielding a lot less characters and can field a small elite army full of warriors and chosen, or pad it out with the cheap marauders. They also have a smattering of monstrous infantry in their list (trolls, dragon ogres and trolls) and ofcourse the shaggoth and giant.
Their casters have access to what is seen as some of the most powerful lores in the game and a lot of lists centre around this with ability to manipulate the magic phase in ways. [Added by Vermillion]

Wood Elves - Wood Elves excell in the movement phase. Their strategies generally revolve around outmanouvering their opponents, avoiding the units they are unable to deal with, and charging single units with multiple units of their own to create a favorable combat. In the other three phases of the game, Wood Elves are average at best. Generally, the Wood Elves deal a decent amount of damage while having low survivability (Forest Spirits have better survivability, but this comes with a points cost). Wood Elves are a very difficult army to play (as the movement phase is probably the most difficult phase of the game to master). [Added by Airmaniac]

Now that we've run through that, I'm sure you've got some questions, which I've already asked for you.

4. What about competitive tiers?

You might not be a win at all costs player, but that doesn't mean you want to constantly lose. Generally you can divide the armies into three tiers.

Top Tier - These exist because of the extraordinary power of certain units (such as Hydras, Flamers, Hell Pit Abominations, and Teclis) which unbalance the armies universally.
Dark Elves, Skaven, Warriors of Chaos, Daemons of Chaos, and High Elves.

Middle Tier - These don't have exploitable over-powered units. These are armies that function as they were intended to.
Lizardmen, Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms, Orcs & Goblins, Empire, Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts

Lower Tier - These all suffer from outdated army books.
Beastmen, Brettonia, Wood Elves

How seriously should I take this tier system? Very little seriousness. Seriousness to the value of 2. The difference between the top and middle tier is negligible outside of competitive play. A lower tier army has a noticeable handicap, but in casual play it wont be a crippling problem.

5. Which is the cheapest army?

You have three options here. Skaven and High Elves benefit from the Island of Blood boxed set, which is by far the cheapest way to buy models. Many Skaven players will buy the box two or three times, then sell the High Elves models and extra rulebooks online. You could also be the beneficiary, and check ebay for people selling Island of Blood models they didn't want. Also, Ogre Kingdoms have a well priced battalion box, which makes them a good choice.

What if I don't like them?

Well battalion boxes are still the way to go. They fill your core and usually save you somewhere around 15-20%. Horde armies tend to be more expensive, so other inexpensive options are Warriors of Chaos and Dwarves. A word of warning. Vampire Counts are by far the most expensive. Their battalion box has units in it you probably wont want, their models are expensive and you'll need to buy zombies, which you probably wont even use in your deployment phase.

6. My "friend" does _____, how do I pick an army to beat him?

Most armies can react to most things. However, there are exceptions. Vampire Counts have absolutely no shooting, which makes them vulnerable to skirmisher type units with ranged attacks and high movement. Dwarves have no wizards, so have trouble reacting to large death-star units. Ogre Kingdoms have very few magic weapons, so ethereal units will give them a lot of trouble. These are very specific issues,and what's important to remember is that every army can react to most situations.

7. I like monsters, which army has the most monsters?

This comes up a lot. Ogre Kingdoms are literally an army of monsters, but odds are you're thinking something more like dragons. Empire, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, High Elves, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, Daemons of Chaos, Warriors of Chaos, Orcs & Goblins and Lizardmen are all lousy with monsters, start there.

8. What's the most popular army?

This isn't 40k, there is no Space Marine monopoly. If you pick an army, it's uncommon to go up against another of the same army. However, there are three factors.

a) Island of Blood- It's such a good bargain (and the logical starting point of new players), that Skaven and High Elves tend to be slightly more popular than the other armies.

b) Local Dynamics- Just go to your LFGS and ask what people play, you never know there could be an abundance of Daemons of Chaos players.

c) Flavour of the Month- When a new army book is released, there's always an influx of new armies. That means if you pick an unpopular army that needs a new army book, it's very likely you'll have a ton of fellow collectors in the near future.

9. I'm big on creativity, what creative thing should I do?

There are many, many, many thematically creative armies out there. Some examples;
- Monotheistic Chaos army.
- All trees Wood Elves army.
- All monsters WoC army.
- All cavalry ____ army.
- Sneaky deployment dwarves.
- Skinks Lizardman army.
- Lizardman stampede army. [Added by Hoverboy]
- All Goblins army.

Needs to be pinned
not that it will stop the same questions being endlessly repeated.
But it might help

Yeah I really hope so. I need content for this, if anyone "in the know" would like to write a brief paragraph on Woc, Brettonians or Wood Elves I'll stick them in there with a reference. Also if there's any other bit you think needs to be added.

+1 to this being pinned. If someone asks a question regarding what army to choose in any form or fashion, drop a link and leave it at that. They will eventually get it.

Also to add to the OP

Brettonia - Master of mounted combat with Arthurian lore thrown in. The army relies on mounted knights to deliver a devestating charge in hopes of destroying a foe in a single turn. While the knights look for a charge opening, blocks of foot slogging men-at-arms tie up opposing troops while peasant archers and trebuchets weaken them from afar. Weak magic phase and knights tend to get crushed in prolonged combat. Also ancient army book.

Squash wrote:Horde armies tend to be more expensive, so other inexpensive options are High Elves and Dwarves.

I think you already stated High Elves as an inexpensive option in the paragraph above. This made this sentence seem a bit weird to me. Perhaps you meant Wood Elves (as their cheapest models, points wise, are 12 points, meaning not a lot of models are required)?


As for a Wood Elves description, how about:
Wood Elves excell in the movement phase. Their strategies generally revolve around outmanouvering their opponents, avoiding the units they are unable to deal with, and charging single units with multiple units of their own to create a favorable combat. In the other three phases of the game, Wood Elves are average at best. Generally, the Wood Elves deal a decent amount of damage while having low survivability (Forest Spirits have better survivability, but this comes with a points cost). Wood Elves are a very difficult army to play (as the movement phase is probably the most difficult phase of the game to master).


Also a final remark about the competitive tiers. In my opinion, High Elves are not top tier unless they include Teclis (who is banned at at least 50% of all tournaments). I think this is important to include. Daemons of Chaos on the other hand, are top tier (in my opinion). Not only do they have great Core choices, they have access to all Magic Lores (with an additional +1 bonus to cast), have the best BS-based shooting unit in the game (Flamers) and have the option to field Fiends of Slaanesh, which are basically Great Eagles with M10 instead of Fly.

Thanks for that, it's been fixed up. Still need someone to help with WoC, I really know nothing about them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Added section on popularity of armies.

Thanks for writing this. Definitely needs some pinning.

Totally agree for the sticky. And some warriors info:

Their playstyle centres around magic and solid close combat core troops which pack a punch, with characters which outshine most other races in terms of stats. These units can be further buffed with marks of the chaos gods and through warshrines, especially the chosen of chaos which can begin the game with both.
These come at a price however as you will be fielding a lot less characters and can field a small elite army full of warriors and chosen, or pad it out with the cheap marauders. They also have a smattering of monstrous infantry in their list (trolls, dragon ogres and trolls) and ofcourse the shaggoth and giant.
Their casters have access to what is seen as some of the most powerful lores in the game and a lot of lists centre around this with ability to manipulate the magic phase in ways.

Definitely needs some pinning, I think.

Hopefully, this will be expanded and will become a very important thread for every person who, like me, wants to start fantasy.

This definitely helped tip the scales towards me playing Skaven.

Thanks for posting!

Thanks Vermillion, WoC summary added. Can anyone suggest anything else this needs? What are questions people like to ask?

I'd suggest maybe rethinking your wording for top and mid tiers. The wording on the top tier seems to be aimed at players who want to have an army that can WAAC.

Suggestions for other sections:

Magic, or "Do I need a wizard lord?
How it can be a major factor in the game due to the big spells.
The basic lores possibly, though I'd suggest that has it's own thread like a part two for this one.

A look at each type of unit in WHFB and how they are now percieved in 8th ed, for example the bigger is better misconception for infantry, cavalry being useless (Hard one to point out up sides on I admit), chariots and different types of warmachines from the basic list.

Put some links into the latest FAQ and highlight important changes such as "powerscroll changed" and so on?

Maybe if this gets popular we could have a mini library of tactica, lores and items for each race. Cowpow did a nice one for WoC, I'd like to see other players takes on different armies as well, but from a few peoples perspectives with different lists.

I think it would be better to leave this as a "Which army should I pick?" thread, rather than bog it down with other things. I'd definitely support those other topics in another thread though.

Good point, in which case I think that you nailed it already, especially the look at the models and play style parts hats off to you!

Squash wrote:There are many, many, many thematically creative armies out there. Some examples;
- Monotheistic Chaos army.
- All trees Wood Elves army.
- All monsters WoC army.
- All cavalry ____ army.
- Sneaky deployment dwarves.
- Skinks Lizardman army.
- All Goblins army.

I suggest the lizardmen stampede, a carnolord leading a 3+ stegadons army.

Stampede added.

Has anyone PM'd an admin/mod to get this stickied?

HoverBoy wrote:I suggest the lizardmen stampede, a carnolord leading a 3+ stegadons army.

What would you do, grab Kroq-Gar and fill your core with Cold Ones?

Squash wrote:
Beastmen - Beastmen are close combat specialists. They're carried by a large number of attacks, and above par WS and Strength. This comes at the cost of a weak magic phase, almost non-existant shooting phase, and a lack of armour saves.

You've never seen or heard of a herdstone list? 3-4 bray shaman hanging around a herdstone and a Great Bray Shaman with a jagged dagger. You're looking at 7 dice on average with winds of magic, Shaman within 6 inches of the herdstone auto generate power dice, so there is 10-11 this occurs before channeling then you have 4-5 shaman channeling chances are you are maxing out at 12. On top of that during the magic phase the GBS can convert models he's killed to power dice for himself with a 10pt arcane item, leaving him points to be a close combat beast with a not your average glass wizard ability in combat. So you have tons of buffing and debuffing on top of cheap troops that have an above average statline with a very good chance with bsb rerolls of being able to reroll misses with primal fury.

Squash wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:I suggest the lizardmen stampede, a carnolord leading a 3+ stegadons army.

What would you do, grab Kroq-Gar and fill your core with Cold Ones?

He's too expencive, just use some regular core and 3-4 other monsters.

Hargus56 wrote:You've never seen or heard of a herdstone list?.

Nope! Seriously, write a paragraph summary and I'll replace what I wrote.

When I was deciding on a WFB army I found a forum that, along with the things you're already considering, ranked/compared armies based on ratio of plastic to metal models and ease/difficulty of painting/assembling.

The plastic to metal thing may be a bit outdated at this point in time, but the painting and assembly part could still factor in for some?

Verd_Warr wrote:When I was deciding on a WFB army I found a forum that, along with the things you're already considering, ranked/compared armies based on ratio of plastic to metal models and ease/difficulty of painting/assembling.

The plastic to metal thing may be a bit outdated at this point in time, but the painting and assembly part could still factor in for some?

That's a good idea, but I would *not* be qualified for that. Go ahead, ask me how many Fantasy models I have. Ask. You will laugh. ]

If somebody else wants to rank them up, I'll include them.

One suggestion is to add the general basis for fluff of each army; e.g. "Brettonia imagery feeds from Arthurian legends and medieval England and France.", "The Lizardmen background is generally taken from Meso-American cultures with strong influence from Aztec and Mayan societies."

This sort of information is obvious to people that have been in the hobby. But I think its helpful for people starting out to help them identify what they might be more interested in. I'll volunteer to write something up if its wanted.

Also, if we are successful in getting a lot of info put together, we might even consider splitting the thread into more specific threads.

Might it be an idea to put up how they fare in Storm of Magic games? That could be important to some- I know at least one person who joined because of SoM coming out.

Hmm. Good points. Taken under heavy advisement. I'm going to sleep on this and give it a ponder. They're all relevant additions but it's already getting big. I'm hesitant to divide the content into multiple threads, but I think a larger, better organised post is the way to go. I'll figure something out.

Ladies and gents if anyone is interested I wrote up a bit of a how to guide on woc link is down below.
It dosnt make an army for you but it will help you get a good idea and it gives you a good starting point.
Hope that helps link is down below in the signature.

Creative armies- Empire
“Each of the empire states has its own particular “feel”, and basing your army around this is a good way to form a creative army.”

cowpow16 wrote:Ladies and gents if anyone is interested I wrote up a bit of a how to guide on woc link is down below.
It dosnt make an army for you but it will help you get a good idea and it gives you a good starting point.
Hope that helps link is down below in the signature.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Creative armies- Empire
“Each of the empire states has its own particular “feel”, and basing your army around this is a good way to form a creative army.”

For reasons that will immediately become very clear I'd love to see you both in this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/401561.page

I've taken the advice on this thread and started a new tangential project in the above thread to create a library of Dakka Fantasy Tacticas, and I'd like your help.

Send me a pm if that's easier and I am always down to help new players getting into the hobby or 40k or lotr converts.

cowpow16 wrote:Ladies and gents if anyone is interested I wrote up a bit of a how to guide on woc link is down below.
It dosnt make an army for you but it will help you get a good idea and it gives you a good starting point.
Hope that helps link is down below in the signature.

Thats the best way, get people thinking for themselves