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So I'm very new to the scene but excited to dive in to the hobby. I run a fledgling nerd site called Red Shirts United and have decided to create a regular column that explores my entry into the hobby.

It is by no means a tutorial or a beginner's guide, but more of a journal explaining how I got into the hobby, how and where I learned more about it, and my first steps into miniature collecting and playing.

If you're interested in checking it out, I invite you to read the first entry here. Any comments or criticisms would be greatly appreciate

UPDATE 10/24/11: Here's the second entry for those interested in checking it out. I threw in a DakkaDakka shout-out for all the great advice and feedback I've gotten from you guys

Not bad for a first entry into the hobby.

One peice of sudo-advice I'm going to give you... Minature wargaming is not a substitute for RPGs. At some level they may use common componants but, they have drastically different playstyles and feal. If you think you'd be intrested in a RPG I highly encourage you to go out and find another. If your into more of the old school role playing aspect of it then look into a system called Pathfinder.

All in all though a good read.

Catyrpelius wrote:Not bad for a first entry into the hobby.

One peice of sudo-advice I'm going to give you... Minature wargaming is not a substitute for RPGs. At some level they may use common componants but, they have drastically different playstyles and feal. If you think you'd be intrested in a RPG I highly encourage you to go out and find another. If your into more of the old school role playing aspect of it then look into a system called Pathfinder.

All in all though a good read.

Thanks for the input!

I've definitely done my homework and am well aware that the play systems are quite different. Perhaps I didn't emphasize it in the journal entry well enough, but what attracted me to D&D wasn't so much the RPG elements but the actual tabletop gaming aspects of it. I don't care too much for "pretending" to be a character, but really liked the mechanics of exploration and combat in D&D and wanted to explore that.

After watching a few introduction videos to 40k battles, it seemed much more up my alley. Plus, I have experience with action figuring modding, so I love the idea of collecting mini's and painting them myself. You don't get too much of that with D&D and the group I found to play with had zero interest in the tabletop elements.

You know, I think something that may be more up your alley is a skirmish game - Malifaux, Hell Dorado, or even Mordheim if you're a fantasy guy.

Or the bet one since you like 40k - necromunda!

Nice site btw.

With the fact that Fantasy Flight currently produce several RPG books based in the 40k universe, I can see the fact that a home brewed game.

Inquisitor/Necromunda/Inquisitmunda would be based largely on a role playing element. But I think that it is possible to put a role playing element into wargaming.

By this, I would mean not building an WAAC tournament wonder army. But starting off small and improving things as you go along. Such as starting of foot slogging then adding transports to a unit or two. Campaigns can often escalate along a interactive and narrative format that might appeal to those who like and enjoy more of a Role playing element.

infinite_array wrote:You know, I think something that may be more up your alley is a skirmish game - Malifaux, Hell Dorado, or even Mordheim if you're a fantasy guy.

And if your really into tactics, INFINITY is a game I would look into.

alphaomega wrote:With the fact that Fantasy Flight currently produce several RPG books based in the 40k universe, I can see the fact that a home brewed game.

Inquisitor/Necromunda/Inquisitmunda would be based largely on a role playing element. But I think that it is possible to put a role playing element into wargaming.

By this, I would mean not building an WAAC tournament wonder army. But starting off small and improving things as you go along. Such as starting of foot slogging then adding transports to a unit or two. Campaigns can often escalate along a interactive and narrative format that might appeal to those who like and enjoy more of a Role playing element.

Honestly, I have enough trouble finding 40k players to try to hunt down folks who play some of the lesser-known games. I'd love to give them a shot, but I'm really liking what I've seen of 40k and would like to focus on that for now.

Yea, my plan is to pick up a kit like Assault on Black Reach that will give me two basic armies with the other basics for play. I have a couple friends interested in getting into the game with me, so a set like that would probably be best to get the feel of things.

I want to build up my army piece by piece, starting with various infantry units and moving up to transports and mechs. From experience, starting off too big (especially when there's that whole other element of painting the figs) can burn me out before I really get into something.

Catyrpelius wrote:Not bad for a first entry into the hobby.

One peice of sudo-advice I'm going to give you... Minature wargaming is not a substitute for RPGs.

It was for me. I went from RPGs to tabletop wargames and never looked back.

I an play scenrios and campaigns with 40k that give me the storytelling element of RPGs. i can convert models to represent unique personalities/characters, so that itch is scratched as well.

I'd say that a well run campaign or scenario for 40K rivals any RPG session i ever played...

One thing that I'm thinking of doing is combining minis wargaming with the more loot-driven aspects of RPG's with something like this:

-Skirmish game, with a Game Master running adversaries
-Completing objectives earns a player a randomly selected "loot card", which includes upgraded weapons, armor, sidekicks, etc. Loot cards would be assigned rarity, and a given encounter would have a certain number of each rarity available.
-Players can trade loot cards until they've been equipped; can trade in X cards of a certain type to get an upgraded selection from the same type (ie, trade in 3 "green" weapons for a random "blue" weapon)

This idea is more to give me a reason to do more conversions and painting (as I'd be building a new model for each character whenever it gets upgraded) but it might be worth writing it up as a sort of =I=Munda alternative.

Temidien wrote:

alphaomega wrote:With the fact that Fantasy Flight currently produce several RPG books based in the 40k universe, I can see the fact that a home brewed game.

Inquisitor/Necromunda/Inquisitmunda would be based largely on a role playing element. But I think that it is possible to put a role playing element into wargaming.

By this, I would mean not building an WAAC tournament wonder army. But starting off small and improving things as you go along. Such as starting of foot slogging then adding transports to a unit or two. Campaigns can often escalate along a interactive and narrative format that might appeal to those who like and enjoy more of a Role playing element.

Honestly, I have enough trouble finding 40k players to try to hunt down folks who play some of the lesser-known games. I'd love to give them a shot, but I'm really liking what I've seen of 40k and would like to focus on that for now.

Yea, my plan is to pick up a kit like Assault on Black Reach that will give me two basic armies with the other basics for play. I have a couple friends interested in getting into the game with me, so a set like that would probably be best to get the feel of things.

I want to build up my army piece by piece, starting with various infantry units and moving up to transports and mechs. From experience, starting off too big (especially when there's that whole other element of painting the figs) can burn me out before I really get into something.

I would really suggest that you atleast pick up the Infinty rule set and give it a look over. 40K while a great universe for story telling the game mechanics are more of a slapped together patchwork of half finished idea's that never really came to anything. It's a fun system for shooting down stuff and rolling lots of dice. If that is your thing then awsome all the power to you. But don't feed me trype and tell me it's steak.

You seem to be like me, you want a story driven game, you want to play a nariative and not " build this months powerlist/net-list adn pwoon people". The great thing about table top wargamming is that if you have a group of people who want the same thing as you do then you can do this kind of stuff. Like I said before check out infinity, great rule set from what I have been told. Great flow to the game. Necromunda is another great game that you can get free online from GW http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat480009a&categoryId=1100011§ion=&aId=5300010. Mordenhiem if you are more into fantasy then sci-fi.

There is a new game comming out from a company called Ambush Alley Games it's called Tommorows War. AAG does a moderen warfare game called Force on Force. This system is designed to work on senero/nerative driven games. There are no point costs, no army lists. You just choose a era you want to play in and use real world TO&E's (Table of Orginization & Equipment). I don't know how they are going to change this for TW but from what I have heard this just might be up your alley. Here is there website www.ambushalleygames.com

Here is their fourm and the TW's section. http://ambushalleygames.com/forum/

Just remember one thing just because you want to play in GW's universe doesn't mean that you have to use there rules or models. There are plenty of different rule sets out there. If converting GW's rulesets is to much or if time is a large factor then there are plenty of people out there who have done most of the work for you. All you need to do is put your own little 'twist' on it.

Good luck with whatever you do and please keep us informed of whatever happens.

Comparing Warhammer to D and D is like comparing a Hamburger and Filiet Minion.

I will throw you a few bones to pick on,

1. The figures in that army you want need to be painted in groups of ten or twenty.

The RPG aspect you are looking for is to either, 1. Use a old copy of the book, with the stats from 2d edition, and use Necromunda, OR 2. Use aspects from basic RPG's and put together a bunch of details, such as loot counters out of extra equipment, boxes, that have something in them, workable switches, and detailed table environment, that you can discuss while you play it with your squad.

If you have a number of players, you can set up a squad roster, with basic equipment, use the FF books as a guidepost, and play the game as is on the table. Large scale combat can use the tabletoprules, the end results, can be played out with your RPG sheets from FF's game system.

A 50/50 mix of the two will keep you from having to embrace the suck that GW's straight up Tabletop games have become.

Others have discussed Necromunda. Yes, that is a good system to intertwine a Space marine squad, but if you play- strictly by Ganger vs Space marines- Your going to be sorely disapointed.

Space marines vs.... can work out great if you go ahead and play them fluff wise, and add in some XP stuff to increase the skill sets, as well as additional equipment- ( Made with extra guns and stuff glued down on a slottabase, and drybrushed.)

As to playing the game- Warhammer 40K, and WFB's are both tabletop games, on thier own.

You put together a 500 pt block, and go to work.
1 commander, 2 squads, and maybe a heavy squad or two(in which will in some armies, IG be another 3 60MM bases woth of 2 men each and a heavy weapon.)

the "Commander" is just a figure of speech, and you can either put your first born up for sale, buy the finecrap, and deal with that bucket of blood, or just get an extra figure, paint them up in a different way, and make up your own LT, Cpt, Boss, Farseer, etc.

500 pts isn't much. You just need 2 squads, a command, and if you want to go farther- depending on your codex pick whatever you want dependant on the codex.


GW's games are turning to crap, so be warned.

On the surface, you pick an army- just like your favorite ball teeam, or football league, and you work within your own armies fluff codex, choices to make the army you want.

SOme TFG's ruleshammer out the "Uberforce" just to come in and play with the grey guys, then they throw them in the colset for years on end or throw them up on feebey.
There are otehrs that don't even go that far. they rush out- buy everything they can, and don't even get through a couple of squads before they give it up.

ME? I got 500 pt forces to start with, then as the army progressed would pick up a squad or unit that was force based.

That way your not caught up in the Pringle situation.

As to the comment that they are dying out-

The game is pricing itself out of reasonable and is continuing down the road to ruin by consistantly giving players the shaft and raising prices every couple of months.
People are moving on to other gaming.
The company has lost its way and is no longer relevent.

and to end it on a positive-

I liked GW back in the day. The game is on the whole- fun.

You can cry about pricing, fluff, etc. but at the end of the day- Its just a game. I hope you get some enjoyment out of it and don't get caught up in the GW kool aid drama.

Why in the hell is everyone trying to talk this guy out of 40k?

40k is sweet... that's why this site exists.... welcome to your first wargame amigo!!!

The OP can play 40k if he wants to. I must emphasise that the 40k rules and the overall balance aren’t very well written. Models and fluff are the core reasons why most people play.

Given that the OP is a D&D player, he can always house rule the things he doesn’t like (like what most D&D players do lol).

Tito wrote:Why in the hell is everyone trying to talk this guy out of 40k?

40k is sweet... that's why this site exists.... welcome to your first wargame amigo!!!

Thank you, I've been having trouble figuring out why everyone seems to want me to play everything but 40k. Considering how difficult it's been for me to find other people interested in the game, I figured people already in the community would be excited that new blood is interested.

candy.man wrote:The OP can play 40k if he wants to. I must emphasise that the 40k rules and the overall balance aren’t very well written. Models and fluff are the core reasons why most people play.

Given that the OP is a D&D player, he can always house rule the things he doesn’t like (like what most D&D players do lol).

...and that's the problem. I guess everybody's kinda assumed that by bringing up D&D and my initial interest in it, I must be a D&D player. The journal entry clearly explains I am not and the reasons why I got turned off from D&D in my area. The RPG elements of D&D were a definite backseat to the experience of sitting at a table and playing out the mechanics of a tabletop game. As I explained, I wanted to play simulated events in a physical environment rather than a digital one (I have a great collection of video games, I don't need to drive thirty minutes in rush hour to sit in a room with strangers and play on a projector), which D&D is capable of but no one I knew was interested in.

40k attracted me because its main pillar was clearly collecting and painting minis, throwing them on a table, and staging battles. I don't need to sit and listen to someone explain, in a crude accent, why their character is motivate to reclaim the Sword of Augusta after scouring the plains of Guhria to restore their family's honor after losing a battle to the death (yet not being executed out of pity). I want to build awesome minis and kick some ass.

I love the idea of mixing in more RPG elements, I really do, and I appreciate everyone's input as far as that's concerned, but that's something I wouldn't want to do until much further down the road. There are so many barriers for a new player to hurdle over (costs of kits and supplies, finding time to paint, finding other players, making time to meet and play, having to explain to people why you're playing this and not something like an RTS video game), sometimes the kitchen sink doesn't need to be thrown in too.

Temidien wrote:
...and that's the problem. I guess everybody's kinda assumed that by bringing up D&D and my initial interest in it, I must be a D&D player. The journal entry clearly explains I am not and the reasons why I got turned off from D&D in my area. The RPG elements of D&D were a definite backseat to the experience of sitting at a table and playing out the mechanics of a tabletop game. As I explained, I wanted to play simulated events in a physical environment rather than a digital one (I have a great collection of video games, I don't need to drive thirty minutes in rush hour to sit in a room with strangers and play on a projector), which D&D is capable of but no one I knew was interested in.

The bolded part is way, most of us figure you like a game with GOOD mechanics. Something I can no longer say about 40K, maybe in 6th edtion but I will not be holding my breath. I still enjoy the hell ouy of 40K, but love games like Infinity or even Blood Bowl becouse HOW I place MY GUYS at the end of my turn can keep the other player from doing anything important.

Welcome to war gaming! There is many folks here letting you know about other games that have great mechanics and people seem to love (Infinity!), however Warhammer is very widespread that makes finding games much easier than others! No matter what mini game you settle on it may be in your best interest to just have a warhammer army just to keep you playing on those slow days.

Your website looks fun, thanks for sharing. Now get to painting!

Noir wrote:

Temidien wrote:
...and that's the problem. I guess everybody's kinda assumed that by bringing up D&D and my initial interest in it, I must be a D&D player. The journal entry clearly explains I am not and the reasons why I got turned off from D&D in my area. The RPG elements of D&D were a definite backseat to the experience of sitting at a table and playing out the mechanics of a tabletop game. As I explained, I wanted to play simulated events in a physical environment rather than a digital one (I have a great collection of video games, I don't need to drive thirty minutes in rush hour to sit in a room with strangers and play on a projector), which D&D is capable of but no one I knew was interested in.

The bolded part is way, most of us figure you like a game with GOOD mechanics. Something I can no longer say about 40K, maybe in 6th edtion but I will not be holding my breath. I still enjoy the hell ouy of 40K, but love games like Infinity or even Blood Bowl becouse HOW I place MY GUYS at the end of my turn can keep the other player from doing anything important.

I'm definitely open to more strategic and/or complex games (especially if I can use my 40k minis to play, saving me from having to have an army for each game) and love the recommendations and input from everyone, please don't get me wrong. My point was just that as a new player, very inexperienced with play and everything else that goes into the game, I feel I should start with basics and the consensus seems to be that 40k is as basic as it gets.

J-Roc77 wrote:Welcome to war gaming! There is many folks here letting you know about other games that have great mechanics and people seem to love (Infinity!), however Warhammer is very widespread that makes finding games much easier than others! No matter what mini game you settle on it may be in your best interest to just have a warhammer army just to keep you playing on those slow days.

Your website looks fun, thanks for sharing. Now get to painting!

Thanks! I'm really looking forward to playing and expanding into other games and playstyles, it seems like a great hobby and community.

I put a lot of work into it, I'm glad you like how it came out. Looking for more writers for day-to-day stories and editorials, if anyone is interested. PM for details.

Here's the second entry for those interested in checking it out. I threw in a DakkaDakka shout-out for all the great advice and feedback I've gotten from you guys

This is interesting to read. It reminds me of my first time in a GW and getting my very first models.
I am sure you will have a lot of fun with the hobby, and I am looking forward to reading more.

I agree it is quite interesting to read. Good to see you're enjoying the hobby so far.

Interested to see how the first battle goes.

Kimzi Caky wrote:This is interesting to read. It reminds me of my first time in a GW and getting my very first models.
I am sure you will have a lot of fun with the hobby, and I am looking forward to reading more.

n0t_u wrote:I agree it is quite interesting to read. Good to see you're enjoying the hobby so far.

Interested to see how the first battle goes.

Thanks guys!

The next entry will be focused more on my early attempts at painting (at about the half-way mark with my first Space Marine and I'm loving it so far!), but if there's room I'll include my (hopefully) first game. I should be heading back to the shop Thursday night after work and with any luck will find someone who can sit down and show me the ropes

Welcome to the fold, we have fairly similar stories. I used to be into competitive Magic, but have moved towards miniatures gaming because I love to paint, and the feel of the game is much more real.

Just a quick bit of advice: Make sure you like your army before you commit to it. I spent 4 months trying to force myself to like Orks because they were cheap in Black Reach. I've finally gotten rid of them and begun my Tau army, the one I wanted from the start, and i'm much happier with it.

I'm definitely open to more strategic and/or complex games (especially if I can use my 40k minis to play, saving me from having to have an army for each game) and love the recommendations and input from everyone, please don't get me wrong. My point was just that as a new player, very inexperienced with play and everything else that goes into the game, I feel I should start with basics and the consensus seems to be that 40k is as basic as it gets.

Don't let the popular opinion sway you, there's a reason that rulebook is so thick. 40k is a game that can be played and won with a simple mindset, but much like any game with a simple ruleset and near infinite options most of the strategic thinking comes as you develop your army and place it on the table.

Like any war the futuristic tablewar of the hams is 50% preparing your army and position and 50% actually using it. The most brilliant general in space can't win the day without making sure he has the right tools.

The next entry will be focused more on my early attempts at painting (at about the half-way mark with my first Space Marine and I'm loving it so far!), but if there's room I'll include my (hopefully) first game. I should be heading back to the shop Thursday night after work and with any luck will find someone who can sit down and show me the ropes

It's good that you're going into this with a modelers mindset, the painting often burns a lot of people out who just want to play.

ShumaGorath wrote:
...there's a reason that rulebook is so thick.

Heeeeeeeeeee hahahahaha!

Oh man, you're killing me! Stop! Can't...breathe...hehe!

Temidien - great second part to the article series. If there's one thing I think everyone who has ever played a GW game can agree on, they're currently the best at bringing in new blood to the hobby. And thanks for for kind words for us Dakkanauts, even as we... fervently pounced on the opportunity to steer you away from the Behemoth.

I'm curious - what type of 'game shop' is the one that you mentioned in your article? Is it an actual game store, or more like a comic shop that happens to have a miniature wargames section in the back corner?

infinite_array wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
...there's a reason that rulebook is so thick.

Heeeeeeeeeee hahahahaha!

Oh man, you're killing me! Stop! Can't...breathe...hehe!

Shave that neckbeard! It's strangling you.

Quiet you! I shaved this morning, and I'll have you know my goatee is quite trimmed and proper!





<- A caveat - I realize the above comment and my avatar may seem to be connected. That's not me in the picture.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Temidien - great second part to the article series. If there's one thing I think everyone who has ever played a GW game can agree on, they're currently the best at bringing in new blood to the hobby. And thanks for for kind words for us Dakkanauts, even as we... fervently pounced on the opportunity to steer you away from the Behemoth.

I'm curious - what type of 'game shop' is the one that you mentioned in your article? Is it an actual game store, or more like a comic shop that happens to have a miniature wargames section in the back corner?

Haha, you guys have been awesome, how could I not give DD a shoutout? I decided to leave out the bit where everyone seemingly tried to talk me out of 40k, atleast for now, as I may do an entry later talking about my thoughts on it.

The store is a full-on Magic/miniatures store. The front room is all Magic cards, D&D books, and some miscellaneous games. The second room is Warhammer, 40k, some WWII miniature game (I didn't catch the name), and Citadel supplies. The third room is larger and has four tables for playing and a decent-size bookcase stuffed with board games (where I found the 40k demo set). Not a big shop, but definitely well-stocked for the niche.

Coming from comics, I can say there are other comics shops in town that reserve a little space for gaming, but I feel better about supporting a business devoted to the niche.

Here's a link to their Google Places page if you're interested: Anthem Games

a BIG thumbs up to you for the posting, the blogging, and approach.

I also highly applaud that you realized that the tools and brushes can be found outside the Hobby Store.. and probably saved you a bucket of money.

Thinking creativly and outside the box is often it's own reward..

porkuslime wrote:a BIG thumbs up to you for the posting, the blogging, and approach.

I also highly applaud that you realized that the tools and brushes can be found outside the Hobby Store.. and probably saved you a bucket of money.

Thinking creativly and outside the box is often it's own reward..

Thanks!

Ironically, I ended up spending more on brushes at the craft store, but I was fine with it because I could select 00 and 000 brushes from a wider selection than the Citadel brushes stocked in the shop. Nothing against Citadel brushes, I picked one up and like it so far, but I like comparing brushes before I spend $5 a pop on em.