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http://realmenplaywoodelves.blogspot.com/2011/11/2000pts-skaven-vs-wood-elves.html

As ever, feedback wanted.

Whoa, kooky lists there dudes. Yours, because it's got a unicorn lifeweaver (NICE ), his because he's got a lot of things that want to fight that shouldn't necessarily want to (grey seer, BSB, big gutter cloud). Bummer he played down points, but if he's interested here's where I would take his list. Note that I left the S4 A2 seer in there, guessing he has some plan for that (though actually, he'd be half decent with Death Frenzy behind him, if he weren't running all Plague spells?). Anyway:

L: Grey Seer - warlock-augmented weapon, talisman of preservation = 330
H: Assassin - weeping blade, potion of strength = 170
H: Chieftain - BSB, armor of destiny, halberd = 122

C: 100 Slaves - pawleader, musician, shields = 256
C: 30 Clanrats - full command, shields, warpfire thrower = 225
C: 30 Clanrats - full command, shields, warpfire thrower = 225

S: 8 Gutter Runners - poison, slings = 136
S: 8 Gutter Runners - poison, slings = 136

R: Hellpit Abomination - spikes = 250
R: Doomwheel = 150
--------
2000

Assassin is a far stronger PoS build, and the BSB is designed to live, not wave the stormbanner or whatever he was doing. Also, the halberd is going to make use of his stats much better than the great weapon. I added back in the second clanrat unit and their fire thrower, and while they are pretty small @ 30 he could easily add numbers by dropping gutter runners - if he takes both gutters down to 6-strong he can add 15 clanrats across both units (40 & 35 most likely). Split the gutters because they're meant to shoot and kill vulnerable things, not frontally assault anything. And then there are the slaves (who would probably be better as 2x 50 but 100 has a nice ring to it!) and the big gribblies. Basically, it takes what he had and makes it smarter

No advice on your list, though I am unsure of the lifeweaver's load out - partially because I don't know what half of it does Glad you got the big treekin hammer when you hit 2000.

Cheers for the report, way to slug it out. The treeman deal did seem like a bad idea to me too, but as you said more than half of the doomwheel's lasers could have bounced off him (*,2,4,6), and frankly I wouldn't expect a wheel to drop a tree on the charge if the lasers failed. I guess the real deal is that the treeman's terror was possibly your best weapon against all those rats, like in your lower point game from before. Also, I have to admit that I shook my head when both you and your opponent insisted on taking the Auto-Win spells and then cast the living hell out of them. I ... guess that wood elves 'need' dwellers to deal with bunches of rats, but as you saw treekin murder them quite swiftly. On his part, he certainly didn't need 13th going up against WE, particularly if he had chosen to play @ 2000 points Frankly, I only bust out 13th when I go up against deathstars (gravestar, templestar) or warrior-heavy WoC, because then the rats have a problem simply due to game mechanics, under-pricing, etc

All the same, thanks for the read.

- Salvage

Cheers for the feedback, I'l try and clear up where I can.

Unicorn is there because it's more point efficient way of getting MR anything than a noble in the unit as well, as I have to pay the 35pts for wild kindred + stag or horse and it means i have a 3+ ward vs. the deamon tzeentch army match up and so am not as vulnerable to magic flaming death..

The dwellers I was busting out.. cos killing 50 slaves in one spell I hear is good.. I did munch through them, but it kept my death star occupied for 8 combat phases, while If I could have halfed the numbers.. I'd have been able to turn the treekin on the seers unit or the HPA.. but yes.. I agree that the 13th spell didn't make munch different if he'd irrestibly reduced my toughness by 1 on say the kin I'd have been in trouble. As it was.. it took 2-3 turns to get that spell off sucessfuly.

The seers' +1 str was anti dwellers tech.. he didn't even know he was fighting me, he apparantly takes it in all his lists cos life comes up that much.. *shrugs*

Life weaver I have concluded is best, as between lifebloom and regrowth those trekin get a lot more resilient, in that game I was sitting there healing 2 wounds on the kin a turn effectively undoing the slaves best efforts.. that was without regrowth, when you factor in flesh to stone which allows the Treeman to beat any other monster of choice as they nearly are all str 6so hititng on 4's wounding on 6's being ws 5 and tougness 8. and Dwellers to deal with vs. skaven, I did choose dwellers over regrowth or flesh to stone which could have saved the dryads or treeman respectively..

My apologies for busting out the "auto win" spells, as you say trying to take out that many rats as WE is a hard time anyway.. but also I'm trying to tweak my list to something I can surprise people with at the GT's, and I'm not going to be at a tournament playing against a death star and go.. I don't think I'l dweller you because that would be cheap.. *That said, if it was a casual game then i would agree and have chosen flesh to stone over dweller's when I chose*

Yeah, the treeman was risky but I had a better chance of stopping it with him than letting it go over and laser my treekin for a few turns.. it was a risk that didnt pay off. but remember if the str 2 hits from the rats hadn't stopped him.. I'd have been free to lifebloom him up to 3/4 wounds and with 2 rounds of combat hopefully drop the wheel before being lasered again.. Ah correction, I may not have been within 12 inches.. oh well treeman would have had 1 maybe 2 rounds to drop the wheel before limping back for medical attention.

Terror was the weapon in the last game only because I did away with his general early on, with the lucky dwellers. In this game it was pretty much useless as he was running around with ld 10 with a bsb reroll, only if I could assassinate the seer would it have been worth anything.

And yeah, it was a time rush, hence he played under pointed.. it would hae been a unit of 25 clan rats with a weapon team, I believe but not sure, it would have been an interesting game, if only it would have depended on if the glade guard could deal with that unit as there were a few turns they did nothing and I could have bled a few vp's more..

That said, I think I need to learn to play the army as a whole not just individual units.. in all my games I've felt that a unit or units have dithered.. in one skaven game it was a unit of dryads, in this game it was the glade guard, and while I couldn't have done much differently because of the way I deployed, i could have used them separately..

Nonetheless: the new WE list that dropped the dryads, magic resistance /harp combo for a new unit of treekin.. I figured it would be more reliable against all armies and not just wasteful preparation for 2-3 match ups.. is

Lord:

Spellweaver: lvl 4 wizard (life) 313pts
Dispel scroll
Glamourwave Kindred
Elven steed

Core:

10 glade guard: banner of eternal flame 142pts
10 glade guard 120
10 glade guard 120
10 glade guard 120

Special:

7 Treekin, 455pts
6 Treekin, 390pts

Rare:

Treeman 285pts
Great Eagle 50pts

Total: 1995pts

My opinion of such is on the blog, under "treekin spam"

Yours,
C-Hydra

I think re: dwellers cheese I was mostly thinking of your general-snipe from last game, which increasingly is impossible at any tournament worth attending (where characters get LOS! vs dwellers, 13th, gateway or some similar restriction is in effect). In a competitive event I still am unhappy to face dwellers on principle (cause I play skaven ), but woodies are certainly the last army I'd hold it against

Sad to see the dryads leave the new list, I still think they're class, particularly with LIFE buffs (or hell any augments) behind them. Thing is I agree though, treekin are obviously better On your lifeweaver, does she have some kind of ward save? I'm guessing she's a forest spirit with the glamourweave, so she's looking to rely on her treemonic 5+ to keep her around, while hanging out with treekin? (I.e. snipe city!) Lifebloom likely makes it functional I suppose, and I've seen some smart WE players do the same with their lifeweaver, have her scoot around wardless on a horse.

Oh, and I really don't agree with the warlock-augmented weapon making the seer S4 for characteristic tests. I understand what the dude is trying to do, but it leads to a dark place of semantics and shenanigans ...

- Salvage

The problem with Dryads, is while they are amazing value for points they suffer from two things: 1 lack of combat ress for being skirmishers, and 2nd large bases, meaning they really struggle against any unit of small bases ranked 5 by x as they have to go against 4pts of static combat ress basic, and assuming they win the opponent will be steadfast anyway.

The nice thing about treekin is that they can be relied upon to if not break steadfast break the unit.. also if my first game vs. skaven taught me anything hanging out with gladeguard can be suicide for the lifeweaver.. Hanging out with the 'kin is much better though in the 2nd game vs. skaven I could have placed her better perhaps in the middle, not that I have a choice in the new list as it's a different sized base.

And yes, running around by yourself is a perfectly valid plan, they are Fast Cavalry and ld 9 to march so assuming there is no shooting/magic missiles to dodge it's pretty safe.. But yes, being glamourweave she get's a 5+ ward vs. non magic shenanigans..

C-hydra