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I'm working on an invasion of the Stardust Empire with a few other people at Sturmkrieg. We're each writing stories and articles from our armies' perspective, and including fluff from some actual games we've fought together as part of the invasion. The Sturmkrieg and Volianvan sectors have each started an invasion of the Stardust Empire because of its heretical practices, though it claims to be an ally of the Imperium. We're currently mid way through the beginning of the invasion.

Sturmkrieg Sektor- Created by Inquisitor Ehrenstein
Volianvan Sector- Created by Lord Kesharq
Stardust Empire- Created by Dark Emperor

Here's the fluff on the battles and the invasion:

http://en.sturmkrieg.com/Attack_on_the_Stardust_Empire
http://en.sturmkrieg.com/Declaring_War_on_the_Stardust_Empire
http://en.sturmkrieg.com/Inquisitor_Lord_Balan
http://en.sturmkrieg.com/Saving_Balan
http://en.sturmkrieg.com/Taking_the_Ruins
http://en.sturmkrieg.com/To_catch_a_Master_of_the_Forge
http://en.sturmkrieg.com/The_turning_of_the_chapters
http://en.sturmkrieg.com/Timeline_of_the_War_of_the_Emperors New

Additional fluff about the factions involved:

http://en.sturmkrieg.com/Stardust_Empire
http://en.sturmkrieg.com/Sturmkrieg_Sektor
http://en.sturmkrieg.com/Category:Volianvan

So...the Dark Emperor...is...a chaper master, chaos lord, autarch, ethereal, hive tyrant and finally, emperor?

I don't usually do this, but "lolwut"?

This would be fine if it wasn't 40k fiction, but it is, which means it makes no sense in the universe. The Dark Emperor breaks all established notions of fluff. And the Imperium does not make alliances with other empires, especially ones named 'Stardust'.

To be frank and honest, this doesn't fit in the 40k universe...at all.

By all means, keep writing this amongst your friends, but as far as 40k fluff goes, this doesn't work.

This is why we're attacking it, because it's completely heretical. I don't really like to tell people that they absolutely have to change things, as I've seen that be very harmful to membership on more dictatorial fanfiction wikis. I'll make suggestions to him about ways to improve his story, especially since we're working on it with him.

I'm not telling you to change it, I'm just telling you it breaks the established 40k fluff.

A lot of 40k players are attracted and will remain attracted to this game because of the rich backstory that's been growing for almost 30 something years. People who love the fluff love it so much because there are still so many blank areas for us to fill in with custom chapters, regiments, craftworlds, kabals and waaaaghhhs! But when people break from established facts and notions, its not enjoyable because then it becomes your universe rather than our universe. I want to be able to picture my space marine chapter fighting alongside your IG regiment, but, I can't because of things like the 'Dark Emperor'.

Simply put, you can't be an Eldar, Tau, Tyranid, superhuman, and chaos worshiper at the same time. Its just, well, silly.

Sorry, but don't expect a lot of people on the internet to take this seriously, as far as 40k fluff is concerned.
And about being harmful by suggesting complete changes, if we as fans didn't follow some basic guidelines about writing in the 40k universe, we could do whatever we wanted, and frankly, the 40k universe would lose its magic if we all went about whatever we wanted.

Just my two cents.

Blacksails pretty much summed up my feelings on this subject.
I haven't read this entire thing, i'm sure there are some good parts but if you have a character such as this 'Emperor Omega' it will lose it's charm.

Wait what?

I'm not telling you to change it, I'm just telling you it breaks the established 40k fluff.

I'm aware. It's not mine to change, unless I insist on changing it, which I have done a few times in extreme cases.

Post 2011/11/13 17:22:46 Subject: Re:Attack on the Stardust Empire
I'm not telling you to change it, I'm just telling you it breaks the established 40k fluff.

A lot of 40k players are attracted and will remain attracted to this game because of the rich backstory that's been growing for almost 30 something years. People who love the fluff love it so much because there are still so many blank areas for us to fill in with custom chapters, regiments, craftworlds, kabals and waaaaghhhs! But when people break from established facts and notions, its not enjoyable because then it becomes your universe rather than our universe. I want to be able to picture my space marine chapter fighting alongside your IG regiment, but, I can't because of things like the 'Dark Emperor'.

That is the reason why I started Sturmkrieg, so that we all would be able to have a common fictional universe for our creations. The problem you mention is the reason why limits are necessary to fanfiction, though we need to know a good boundary for those limits. I would say that at least in this case, the Stardust Empire is going beyond this limit.

Simply put, you can't be an Eldar, Tau, Tyranid, superhuman, and chaos worshiper at the same time. Its just, well, silly.

Sorry, but don't expect a lot of people on the internet to take this seriously, as far as 40k fluff is concerned.
And about being harmful by suggesting complete changes, if we as fans didn't follow some basic guidelines about writing in the 40k universe, we could do whatever we wanted, and frankly, the 40k universe would lose its magic if we all went about whatever we wanted.

That's a very good point. And the advantage of a wiki, or something like Sturmkrieg is that content can be moderated, so that everything can be decent and fit together, as opposed to a random fanfiction website where everyone writes their own thing and there is no moderation of ridiculousness. The only issue is that wiki admins are not supposed to be dictators, or overly controlling.

Updated.

I don't know what you've updated, but there's still that absurd Dark Emperor thing. Part dragon, part wolf, part human, part ridiculous. Sorry, but there's no redeeming feature to that character and sadly, it kind of ruins the rest of this Stardust empire faction.

As for something to think about, your battles are very small in their scope. I understand that they're based on a standard 40k battle, but for writing about a war, you have to expand the scope. Don't think platoons and squads, think regiments and companies moving to take a large and significantly important target.

I know that the Dark Emperor is really ridiculous (part of the reason we're invading his empire), but I think that he just wants his army to be for fun on the table top rather than strictly adhering to canon. Really my main problem is that he has Chaos Marines that are allied with the Imperium.

As for the battles, I see what you mean. It is a pretty big war; within the 30 worlds of the Stardust Empire, there are approximately 14 Space Marine chapters and a Chaos Legion. I did want to start out with a [relatively] small raiding force, but it's still a good size attack. I'll work on adding the bigger battles, maybe for later in the war when the initial lighting attacks are over.

I also need to change the force that attacks the War Ravens; I think it's a bit of contradiction of my own fluff for that many Scharzenkommando forces to be getting sent after a Space Marine chapter.

Do you think we should ask Dark Emperor to tone down his empire at all, or would that be too dictatorial?

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:Do you think we should ask Dark Emperor to tone down his empire at all, or would that be too dictatorial?

That only depends on whether or not you like it and where you want to take your fluff. Your fluff would work perfectly fine on it own, you'd just have to create a different enemy (a more believable one, say an Ork Waaagh!). Personally, I think the Dark Emperor stuff (and the stardust empire by extension) is just silly, non-sensical, and sounds like a 12 year-old fanboy. Your fluff (flaws and all) has a good tone about it, and it appears that you're at least trying to fit with the established universe, yet have your own flair.

Toning it down wouldn't really fix the problem. Nothing short of an entire revamp of that fluff would bring it into line with established fluff. Anyways, do what you want, but I personally feel the Dark Emperor/Stardust Empire detracts from your fluff.

I've mentioned to him that it really doesn't fit, the way he has a lot of his stuff, like the way that he has Chaos Space Marines in an empire allied with the Imperium; he said that they no longer worship Chaos, which I think technically would still work as long as they weren't mutated. (I remember hearing that in the fluff, non corrupted Space Marines can come back from Chaos in exchange for a penance crusade, or something like that.)

I think he just wants to have fun (which is the most important part of the hobby), and his fluff is just an explanation for the way his army works on the table top.

In a way it's good that he boldly creates an army just with what he thinks is the most fun, since that's what the hobby is all about. If he was really pushing that his army was completely canon consistent, it would be different.

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:I've mentioned to him that it really doesn't fit, the way he has a lot of his stuff, like the way that he has Chaos Space Marines in an empire allied with the Imperium; he said that they no longer worship Chaos, which I think technically would still work as long as they weren't mutated. (I remember hearing that in the fluff, non corrupted Space Marines can come back from Chaos in exchange for a penance crusade, or something like that.)

I think he just wants to have fun (which is the most important part of the hobby), and his fluff is just an explanation for the way his army works on the table top.

In a way it's good that he boldly creates an army just with what he thinks is the most fun, since that's what the hobby is all about. If he was really pushing that his army was completely canon consistent, it would be different.

It's nice that he knows what he wants to do, but ignoring the general not-canonosity of it some of the stuff is fairly absurd.
If you take into account the universe he wants it to be a part of it is even worse.
Renegade SM can come back in return for a pennance crusade. It is rare for a chaos worshipper to be allowed back into the Imperium and not executed/purged/whatever.
Part of the challange and the fun of making your own armies background is making it so that you get the right feel for your army and at the same time stick to canon as much as is possible IMO.
Having just read through the Stardust Empire i have a feeling it needs a re-write...

I don't really think his marines would be taken back either; he also told me that they have Berzerkers which have converted to worshiping the Dark Emperor, which are two things I don't see the IoM going for. I also really don't think that they'd like the who A CHALLENGER APPEARS thing with the DE being a shadow version of the Emperor.

Part of the reason for the invasion was to have a reason to get rid of it; it was only a matter of time before the Inquisition found out about the Tyranids he has working with him.

How about this.
The Governor of the [Name] sector has over the years succumbed to Warp madness. A potent psyker [name] became Sector governor from an early age after his family somehow managed to negotiate for him to be left out of the Black Ships horrible tithe. However, more recently he has shown signs of the warp malady that afflicts some very few psykers.
Proclaiming himself the Dark Emperor of the [name] sector he has seceded from the Imperium. This was not a sudden decline. Over the many years [name] has gone further and further over the edge. Hiring chaotic and xenos mercenaries, experimenting with xeno bio and weapons technology and in some cases outright blasphemy. How this escaped the notice of the Inquisition is down to simple betrayal. Inquisitor [name] turned his back on his glorious majesty and aligned himself with the governor. Using the inquisitor to capture or kill his fellows in the sector and any replacements in a series of staged accidents or using his chaotic mercenaries to deal with them [name] has managed to keep his sector from inquisitorial eyes.

Drop any and all loyalist SM from their roster. They are secessionists now. Any loyal SM forces (Lets say a Fleet based chapter that was mid-system) are either forced to fall back and regroup or have fallen back to join up with the Sturmkrieg forces.

It sounds good. I'll mention it to him. Although, I don't think any amount of heresy is going to get Tyranids to form and alliance; they aren't even sentient, I don't think.

This actually works really well because every time we've destroyed one of his chapters, he's just written fluff about a new one.

You don't form allainces with Tyranids in the traditional sense.
The usual narrative mechanic is some kind of bio/technical machine that subverts the hivemind...

purplefood wrote:You don't form allainces with Tyranids in the traditional sense.
The usual narrative mechanic is some kind of bio/technical machine that subverts the hivemind...

I forgot about that. I've seen a lot of Ork stuff done that way, like mek boyz with remote controlled Carnifexes in apocalypse.

It works well for Tyranid allies.

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

purplefood wrote:You don't form allainces with Tyranids in the traditional sense.
The usual narrative mechanic is some kind of bio/technical machine that subverts the hivemind...

I forgot about that. I've seen a lot of Ork stuff done that way, like mek boyz with remote controlled Carnifexes in apocalypse.

It works well for Tyranid allies.

It also looks really ferreting cool.

I just added the beginning of a story about how and why the Space Marine chapters of the Stardust Empire turn away from their heretical leader.

It's called The turning of the chapters.

SM chapters are independent.
The Sector of a governor would have no control over them.
It is also likely the fleet elements of 6 chapters (A bit much for a single sector maybe tone it down to 3) could hold off and if necessary rescue the ground forces of the chapters fairly easily.

My suggestions: Tone it down to 3 chapters.
Have them either, fleet based, hit and run experts or city fight experts.
Either they strip their homeworlds down and evacuate, hold their ground and wait for Imperial relief, begin a long hit and run campaign that lasts the entire campaign.

I realized that, although it's not a sector; it's the "Stardust Empire." I don't have any control over it, but I could ask DE if he'd be interested in toning it down. I've brought up the issue of having 14 Space Marine chapters in an allied empire of the Imperium, really close to Terra. It could also be possible that while the sector governor doesn't have power over the SM, he has informal control over them, meaning that they just work together and and the SM chose to recognize his authority.

How many ships would each chapter have, do you think? Approximately how big are they too?

For their battle plan, I think they'll strip down their homeworld and evacuate.

Thanks for your input; I'll amend the story so that the Space Marines are working on evacuating. Maybe I'll make it so it's just that one chapter is having difficulty with fighting of Stardust Empire forces. They do have a ton of Tyranids, Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Marines.

Hang on...
These guys weren't ever a part of the Imperium?
Okay this thing kind needs some help...
I can understand your guys being outside the Imperium, sometimes the Imperium doesn't have the forces or someone deems them stable enough to leave alone for the time being.
But these guys wouldn't have SM chapters roaming through their space if they weren't Imperial... they sure as all hell wouldn't have any kind of control over them. Ask him if he wants it to be good. Not if he wants to tone it down...

An SM fleet is mainly comprised of Strike Cruisers, Battle Barges, frigates, some destroyers and various auxiliary and support vessels.
Strike Cruisers will be... well cruisers sized. about middling. Battle Barges tend to be much bigger (About battleship sized i think)
The frigates and destroyers are much smaller.
The auxiliary vessels would be smaller still unless the chapter has a manufactorum ship which tend to be colossal.

They're allied with the Imperium, so I think the backstory is that they were given to the DE by the GE or something like that. Apperently they're supposed to be brothers, I believe. (I also haven't written any of this BTW.) They also shouldn't have Tau, seeing as they're on the complete opposite side of the galaxy either. It's totally heretical, and the Imperium wouldn't stand for it. That's part of the reason for the invasion.

Thanks; about how many ships would it be? Maybe 12 or 15, maybe several more smaller ones?

About 6-8 Strike Crusiers and a maximum of 3-4 Battle Barges...
It's impossible for the Emperor to have a brother...
You can sort of be allied with the Imperium. Some systems have more independance than others due but all must pay a tithe unless they aren't a part of the Imperium at all for whatever reason.

That definitely helps out a lot.

I'll mention to him that the Emperor can't have a brother, though fluff wise, it's possible that maybe the DE would claim to be related to the GE.

I think really the only way to be an ally is to have semi independence, and the only way to have that is pretty much through chance, or to have been part of the Imperium pre heresy. Possibly something like being out on the eastern fringe, or being a sub sector within a sector that doesn't pay any attention to you, and so you sort of get independence by default since the Imperium just never deals with you.

Something like the Rotstein example also.

I also consider it slightly Mary Sue to deliberately try to plan out being "semi independent." It's also pretty redundant as the Imperium is so big and so much of a confederation that most sectors or systems with have semi independence unless they're a major part of the Imperium or are totally untrusted.

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:That definitely helps out a lot.

I'll mention to him that the Emperor can't have a brother, though fluff wise, it's possible that maybe the DE would claim to be related to the GE.

I think really the only way to be an ally is to have semi independence, and the only way to have that is pretty much through chance, or to have been part of the Imperium pre heresy. Possibly something like being out on the eastern fringe, or being a sub sector within a sector that doesn't pay any attention to you, and so you sort of get independence by default since the Imperium just never deals with you.

Something like the Rotstein example also.

I also consider it slightly Mary Sue to deliberately try to plan out being "semi independent." It's also pretty redundant as the Imperium is so big and so much of a confederation that most sectors or systems with have semi independence unless they're a major part of the Imperium or are totally untrusted.

It's not Mary Sue but it is silly to make a point of it as most systems are semi-independant...
He could claim he was a brother of the Emperor... though if we are going with that i would instead have him claim he IS the Emperor... why nto go all the way?
Unless this is on the Eastern fringe then Tau should be there...
Everyone else (kinda) makes sense to be there... apart from the SM chapters unless they are turning renegade...

Just added a timeline of the events of the war.

It's not Mary Sue but it is silly to make a point of it as most systems are semi-independant...
He could claim he was a brother of the Emperor... though if we are going with that i would instead have him claim he IS the Emperor... why nto go all the way?
Unless this is on the Eastern fringe then Tau should be there...
Everyone else (kinda) makes sense to be there... apart from the SM chapters unless they are turning renegade...

I guess not really, but I've noticed that a lot of people seem to lay into any stories that are described that way, without really taking into account that most sectors or worlds are probably semi independent.

It does make sense for a heretical faction, although he really doesn't see it that way. He really doesn't see the problem with having Chaos Space Marines, Tau, Eldar, Tyranids, and Orks all in an empire separate from the Imperium and allied with it. If the Dark Emperor character wanted to be an ally of the Imperium, it's probably more likely that he would just call himself a brother of the Emperor rather than actually try to claim himself to be the Emperor.

The Stardust Empire is near Terra, and the Tau are all the way on the eastern fringe.

It makes sense for everyone else to be in that part of the galaxy, but it doesn't really make sense at all fluff wise for them to be all hugging together in the same empire; it really goes against the grim darkness of 40k.